Okay, following the success of the sub 35 10k thread and the sub 34 10k thread (i.e. I went sub 35 and then sub 34 :O)), figure it has to be worth starting another one up.
So hints, tips, tricks, good training sessions, tempo runs, hill reps and of what length, intervals long or short reps and long or short recovery. Improve quality/quantity first. Potential target races and the sort of times needed at those races to make sub 33 a possibility.
Any thoughts, ideas and anything else people can come up with will be most appreciated.
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As to what race and when, the summer is coming and providing the heat doesn't effect your running then the world is your oyster... but have you thought about a return to Regents Park? Now you know the course it might be a good choice...
good luck!
Seriously, well done (again).
Have a look at the first couple of pages of the sub 2:30 forum, as there's a chat about 32:xx 10kms:
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/forummessages.asp?UTN=36728&URN=11&dt=4&srchdte=0&cp=1&v=1&sp=
Best of luck!
Sorry Bryn not at a level to offer the kind of tips you need, but best of luck in getting the times you want, I'm sure you'll do it!
PB this time last year was 36:28, my new PB was set yesterday of 33:16, at the 5 mile mark i felt very comfortable and although my sprint wasn't up to much, I was runnign well within myself for most of the race, just to be certain I didn't blow up. In all honesty without having to constantly maneveur round lapped runners and with a slightly faster pace sub 33 was a possibility yesterday, but this is more about not only hitting 33 but also going well under.
JEJ- just wait till next winter :O)
JRM- currently about 40-50 miles a week
re: track workouts- I already go at a significantly faster than race pace. I train with a 1:53 800, 1:56 800 and 3:56 1500, 1:55 800 and 4:13 1500m runner and am consistently with them or ahead in reps, think that this pace work has seriously helped me.
Other thing is the long run I've added in, never done one seriously before and now done 2 in this month, both 17 miles first at 7:22 pace next at 6:28 pace and was nice and comfy the whole way, never really straining .
Think sub 33 will come naturally in time, just interested in hearing strategies on how to get there quicker :O)
Have you had pro- advice on a stretching routine? Eating routine? The stuff that isn't directly running.
I think that the aim must be to avoid the mumbo jumbo and old wives tales.
Ask Paula, she might just respond....
Next 10k is on February 19th, but somehow think a Parliament Hill cross country isn't going to yield the fastest time!
Blisters- I like that idea, I might well send off and ask her, I've had some advice re: training from Andi Jones ( 2:18 marathoner, won Northern XC title last week, was less than 3 minutes from Bekele at Edinburgh), but Paula might be a very good idea.
Bryn - Pleased to hear that you are doing track workouts with fast middle-distance guys. Are you planning to do speed-work with them through the Summer?
I think a summer of 800/1500 racing would be a great idea at the moment. (With plenty of slow over-distance running thrown in)
BTW - congrats on the recent progress
In training I would mainly target the 5 min/mile pace and get familiar to it. As for races I would rather pick a race and another one as a back up plan. Don't get me wrong the Regent's Park 10k is good for a monthly training session (if training is the aim), but it's not the most important race in
the race calendar.
Remembered the last chat we had after the track race? I mentioned strength was an area you should look into. The XC season has helped you a bit in terms of staying power. The other area I thought was your stride pattern. Flexibility and a few drills, should help you to cover a few more inches in a stride. In terms of race execution made a lot of progress too, instead of just hanging on due to tactics, giving 100% right from the gun.
Also you should be aware that you had quite a long season and done quite a few races. Don't expect linear improvement all the time.
personally, I think you should focus on the summer season to target some of your shorter times. However, personally i enjoy the winter cross country season so that I can focus less on times and more on racing and beating people. Then as a result of this, when I run my annual(!) 10k road race, I surprise myself by the time I achieve.
As far as training paces go, I would continue your high-intensity track work as much as possible and then target around 5-5.10/mile as a pace for long intervals at the weekend (e.g. 8x 1K, etc) Then threshold runs will naturally become faster if you run them to a target HR of about 80% WHR.
Keep up the miles, general conditioning is obviously very important to run fast over 10K, as is strength conditioning such as core stability, and gym work which could include plyometrics and bodyweight exercises. I certainly find these very helpful for strength endurance.
Hope this helps...see you at Parliament Hill!
P.S. Are you running Met. League next week?
Like the ideas coming through. TwoTon- yes I will be, this is the group I've always trained with, just that some of the faster lads have arrived back.
Summer racing- heard this mentioned a few times, racing plan at the moment is to concentrate on 1500-5k, I might do a few 800s but they really don't suit me. Probably 1500 and 3k will be my main race distances with 5ks and steeplechases added in as well. I'll also probably do one or two track 10ks as I quite enjoyed my first and it'll help give me a very definite indication of improvement.
URR- stride pattern is something I have been working hard at, now I feel I have a lot more control over my stride. It used to be a case of having one stride and that was it, now I have a few more options as to how long I want my stride to be.
One thing I have really been working on is change of pace, I used to just run at a steady pace the whole time, now in lost of rep sessions I'm doing the first 3/4 at a steady pace and then really kicking hard and it's paying dividends.
Jon- general conditioning is something that I need to do more off, every so often I ge tinto it and start doing more but hten I let it slip, something need to put a lot more attention into.
Popsider- very valid point- I'll be talking to my coach about this, the encouraging thing is that whilst my onger times have come down fast my shorter distance times have also improved dramatically, December 04 I did an 800 time trial and had a big break through and ran 2:17 I think, this year did it again and ran 2:09 in freezing weather, my basic speed is improivng at a fast rate at the moment.
Think the racing schedule is going to consist of a summer of track with the big aim being to...
Qualify AAAs u20 5km (15:30 QT)
and then get into a SoE cross country squad in the winter.
i) a variety of paces (see Horwill etc on 5 pace)
ii) event specific stuff
Eg Gebrselassie would do everything from a session of 300m, 200m, 150m, 100m (he even did 20m reps!) through to 5 x 2K off a couple of minutes rest (ie 10K broken into chunks)
Speed work with the faster boys is going to be great for short term and long term progress.
Doing 10K pace work will really help. That's current 10K pace and a bit quicker. You'll know what sessions that means for you but reps of 1k to 2k with shortish rest is good.
Do some 5K pace work too. This is roughly VO2 max pace and really boosts your fitness.
Remember you don't have to fit it all into one week. Look at a fortnightly cycle of sessions.
You can also vary pace within sessions - off to do a couple of sets of 5min, 4min, 3min, 2min, 1min all off 2min soon. Big range of paces.
A good XC base (regular Met leagues) also helps no end - ran my 10K pb after coming off the XC and starting to sharpen for a 1500m season.
Sounds like you've got a good idea of the balance between not roasting yourself in the session but working quite hard.
I agree with what Beagle said about 5k pace training, very useful for all distance runners.
In simple terms I think of running ability as a combination of innate natural talent combined with how your body responds to training. I've no idea if there is a relationship between the two, although your results seem to suggest that it may not be a strong one.
What has become very noticeable is in training with my training partners- I can take on sessions and mileage that they can't come close to and yet with say 12 hours I'm ready for more, whilst it may take them 24 hours or longer to recover. For instance this week I raced on the Sunday over 10k, did 5 miles easy on Mondya afternoon with my calves killing me, then monday evening went to Ware and did a session up a fairly gently sloping hill (after a 2 mile warm up), of 6 x 3 minutes hard with jog down recovery and on every single rep I was ahead of my very fast 800m training partner who'd on the saturday gotten 13th in BUSA short course, a sub 9 3000m runner and another whos run 16:30 for 5k but had done almost nothing over the weekend. Then on the Tuesday I went down the track and did 4 repetitions of (200 fast,600 fastish, one mile at 10k pace all in one go so 6 laps of the track), and they either didn't show or really struggled.
Not sure, but if there's any element of natural talent, it's that my body can take a very high level of training and not feel the effects from it particularly. Not sure why that is but in terms of recovery I seem fairly strong. That's why I think a very high level of mileage may work very well for me.
Barnsely- sorry, just realised I hadn't addressed your point- that's essentially what I'm doing but as I work out 90%+ of my training myself I need to find out everything, and even though I'm likely to keep my plan lots of other ideas need to come in, so that when I do hit that plateau I have an idea on how to break through it. Though for the moment continuing as I am and just making minor alterations seems the smart decision.
Did a quick calculation on my run today, at the start of last season despite a number of attempts I hadn't broken 10 minutes for 3k, on Sunday I ran for 10k at a faster pace, just a nice little stat :O)
Got a 5k next Saturday for Southern Mens team in Battersea park and providing I'm healthy that should give me a good indication.
Bryn R - what's the latest with your own attempts?
I was at the prize-giving (for spectating purposes). Did you come 7th, you will be getting a prize through the door.
I'm had to settle for 37:50 tonight. I only do between 35 and 40 miles a week though.
Good luck with your training, but be cautious, and try and not get injured.
I've alternated the 70 miles with an easier week. For example, this was the easy week due to the 10k I just did. Next week will be back to the 70, and thereafter I might drop it down a bit every now and then to recover if need be, but the aim is to be consistent at higher mileage from now on if I can handle it.
MIxed progress- basically I haven't been able to train for about 2 months. I raced my first road 10k in a whlie last THursday over a tough, constantly undulating course and ran 34:29, so judging by how tough the course is I reckon I've lost about 45 seconds worth over a 10k of fitness, hopefully I'll be able to get that back again now that I'm training.
Not sure when my next attempt at sub 33 will be, but until I've gotten some more fitness will be struggling.
StuartG- quite probably the extra mileage will help, it's a question now of keeping the quality the same despite the extra run.
Aim now that my track season is effectively gone, is to get that SoE vest, and to do that I need to run a 15:10 5k, so a low 32 10k is a must.
Torn between working on my speed ( which long term I think will improve me, certainly give me better 1500 times) and putting the miles in which'll certianly improve my 10k time more...Can't keep on trying to play half-way and at the moment, think it's gonna be the speed side, with a switch back in the winter.
Bryn, search for the Rye Classic Series on "Events" - we plan to go down for all the races. There are couple of 5Ks and a 10K in Sept. You'd benefit from the fast 5Ks and get to know the course well before doing the 10K. Also I think there is a junior prize at each race and you may well have a shot at the overall series if you do them all.
You are welcome to stay with us Fri night if that helps as we are half way there.
Aberdeen 10k was won by a 19 year old doing his first 10k road race in just over 31mins and apparently he found the first 5k with the leading pack to be comfortable.