Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
Overdone it?
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
That's interesting RicF. I thought HR drift was about trying to maintain a pace at a certain HR but the HR drifts upwards because you are not yet adapted enough?
Very easy 5 and a half this AM for me.
I've seen 180 at the end of my PB 5k. Have set my max as 185. I should probably do a test. After the marathon.
My heart rate goes crazy high at the start of a run - like 220 with peaks all over the place and then settles after a mile or two. So I ignore that bit. Think it must be static on the HRM or something?
6 miles recovery this morning over the fields. Got very wet. Did some muddy strides.
HR is about delivering power at a rate. The heart is the bodies engine.
Imagine a car engine: Big engine with low revs has more power than a small engine with low revs. Or a small engine with high revs has more power than a small engine with low revs.
Can't beat a big engine with high revs.
However, duff leg muscles won't be able to deliver the power, that's where the miles of conditioning come in. Fitness is almost a different game.
🙂
McF I used to get that on my HRM when I hadn't wet the strap contacts properly.
Afternoon all.
A sh*te, manic week at work and the first, albeit relatively mild, cold of the winter combined to drain me of time and energy this week. Guess the malaise I was feeling on the morning of the 10k last week wasn't mere hypochondria for once.
Sorry to hear about marrows having to ditch the mara, hope the 5m went ok in what was probably howling wind for MrV, and good MP'ing in tough conditions from McF.
Good running going on elsewhere too and some interesting input from Ric, though yet to be convinced on not needing at least some continuous 'tempo' running. I do agree that whilst I think it can be effective, too much of it is an injury and over-training risk - there has been evidence of that from various forumites since I've been on RW. Perhaps a statement of the bleeding obvious, but guess I'd argue that the trick is to get the balance right, and that it is better to do too little than too much.
As for my running, I'd always intended an easy few days this week after Lincoln anyway and was on plan, including an easy paced long-ish run, until yesterday when it all caught up with me, and had to sub out the planned Lydiard hills session for a short jog at 9m/m pace. Only did that to try to wake myself up, as resting wasn't doing the trick - the jog didn't either.
Slightly better today but procrastination has set in as I look out of the window at early spring doing a convincing impression of foul late autumn.
Fitness - a function of blood chemistry.
🙂
Essentially, turning the legs over and getting them used to the motion of running builds muscular endurance causes micro-trauma and thus some form of hypertrophy//repair meaning the muscle itself can then be put under more stress the next time before it starts to fall victim to micro-trauma. Though we're not talking about body-builder levels of mass creation we are still talking about intentionally damaging muscle fibers so that they repair themselves, multiply and become more resistant to stress.
Since we are organic and cannot make ourselves more efficient at using the "engine" by adding/removing/tweaking parts then the only answer is to polish, nurture and maintain the parts we have so we can get the most from the engine. I am currently at a point where most of my runs are causing my legs to tire far before my heart and lungs (since I'm running easy I am rarely breathing heavily unless I decide to have some fun and do some quick bursts) the only answer to this is to rest tired legs so they have a chance to repair and do more of the thing that is making them tired so they learn to accommodate.
Of the two things, for conditioning; the rest is primary since the muscles will only repair and reinforce themselves during periods of recovery, remove recovery entirely and that micro-trauma might just turn into an injury, have too much recovery and your fitness will start to deteriorate (the engine) there's a fine balance to strike I think between resting and running oftentimes people sacrifice their body for their engine or vice-verse. I know bodybuilder types who condition their muscles so much that they are capable of massive feats of endurance but put them on a treadmill for 5 minutes and they will suffer, likewise I know runners who couldn't squat their own body-weight more than 5 times. Of course none of this is to say you have to do these things but I'm just posting my interpretation of RicF's analogy.
I'm in the middle of a training session right now, I'll return with some detail later. But before then, here's a thought.
'If your coach had never achieved a decent standard of running themselves, would it make their advice less valid than a coach who had?
And if your coach had actually run in the Olympics would that make their advice even more valid than usual?
🙂
As Bob suggested it was indeed a very windy 5 mile race for me today. I put all thoughts of a fast time out of my head during the warm up and just focused on trying to run strongly. There were a few guys from the club running so I had a couple of targets to race. Ended up with a time of 29.22 which is about 50 seconds slower than my PB but I was up and around those I should be. I just managed to beat my clubmate who ran a 59:30 10 mile race last weekend. Everyone's times seemed to be significantly down so probably a decent performance despite the time. Hopefully this will sharpen me up for Fridays 10k and I'll keep my fingers crossed for more favourable conditions.
Pretty sure Brother Colm O'Connell never achieved any form of athletic greatness but if he came to me and gave me advice about my running, I'd probably take it, hope that answers the question?
Ric - I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on the questions you posed. I was at one moment coached by someone who ran in the commonwealth games marathon (2.17 PB). I ended up over trained and had to take several months downtime to recover.
I'm not sure personal greatness in someone's own career makes them better or worse as a coach.
Look at some of the best managers.
Will catch up properly later.
BBB
Some continuous 'tempo' running. I do agree that whilst I think it can be effective, too much of it is an injury and over-training risk - there has been evidence of that from various forumites since I've been on RW.
I'll concede that the complete eradication of pace in this area may be a mistake, however, unless a youngster in their 20's, I'd be a bit careful about running miles and miles back to back like this. Maybe 5 minutes at a time with a couple of jogged miles between.
Mr V. You've discovered the most extreme form of one size doesn't fit all.
It's astonishing how many runners assume that the fastest runners are also the most knowledgable. It's a joke how many champion runners are give the stage to promote their stuff; as if it was somehow special, when the main reason they were successful was genetic luck and physical gambling. i.e they over did things but got away with it long enough to get a result.
The only runner I ever train with, once ran in the Olympics. They look back now and say the training they did was quite often counter productive, that they now do things differently.
Today and yesterday we ran 10 miles at 8:01 average pace (I kid you not, the same pace) and chatted the whole way. Fast enough for an Olympian 5000m runner.
🙂
No table update this week as nothing changed which is worth a
from the point of view I don't have to do anything but a 
in that none of us improved our PBs.
Well I could say I was busy at work which wouldn't be a lie but I have to agree with these posts.
Fingers crossed we return to some more normal Overdone It? thread banter this week.
Marrows - sorry to hear that you are 'out of the game' for 6 weeks (it could be worse you could be 'on the game'); from the links you've posted seems like you've got some thinking to do - good luck with finding a way through it.
McF - lovely long run - 9 miles into the wind at MP just does not sound like the confidence booster you're looking for when you do 18 with 14 at MP but sounds like you can take a lot from it - is 7:50 the time required for sub 3:30?
Mr Bump - that doesn't sound very understanding from the doc, are you an over regular visitor which would be the only plausible explanation for that treatment.
MrV - sounds like a good run in difficult conditions and one McF can also take comfort from as you were 12 secs per mile down on a PB time.
I struggled on Friday with my 4*1200 at 5k pace which became 2*1200 at 5k ish pace, 1*1200 at 10k pace (all off 3 min recoveries) and 2*600 at 5k pace off 90 secs.
Then yesterday plodded my final 20.5 miles (longest 5 runs now equal the magic 100) in about 2:45 at just over 8s. Wore my Kinvara 4s just to check I could run on them for that long - they were fine on the run but my achilles are suffering a bit today, first time for a while. So I've reached taper - YAY!!
(then I looked at the schedule for this week
)
I did at treadmill session, wearing a hear rate monitor, yesterday that I would like to discuss in detail. Then we can return to normal.
People coming onto a running forum and posting about running. Honestly what’s the world coming to
I did 15.5 miles at McF's marathon pace yesterday in the pouring rain. There was much chafing in the reproductive department. The rain stopped as soon as I'd finished.
(I do realise that last pair of sentences sounds a but like too much info but I'll leave it in)
Hard luck Mr V, I like to think of races like those as personal bests on the effort front. Conditions were shite yesterday - you win some, you lose some.
Congrats to Skinny on surviving so far. What's the week ahead then ? Lots of short fast stuff ?
Some good running in difficult conditiions on the weekend. I managed to do my long run on saturday so avoided the worst of the wind. Last night I did a very slow 7 miles and i was very glad I wasn't trying to hit any particular paces as it was really blowing.
Bob- Were you not running the road relays on saturday?
Skinny- Nope, definately not, thats the first time since 1999 that I have turned up at minor injuries. I don't think I will be in a hurry to do so again.
Just planning out my week. I have this 5 miler on sunday (Lou/Mcf- Can you offer any advice on the toilet/hedgerow facilities in the park?) which I am really treating as a practice for the Leamington 10k 2 weeks later. On the one hand I want to do OK but on the other I want to maintain a normal structure. The only day available to me to do long run is Thursday so I may limit it to 90 minutes and keep it flat and easy.
On the technical side of things, I was reviewing my garmin connect data last night and there sems to have been a noticeable drop in my vertical oscillation in the last 3 weeks. It was always around 9, but now it i coming in 8-8.5. Very interesting
Definitely shocking from the doctor then DT - on the spelling front please try and remember you are a solicitor and hence good at English.
Your last couple of words have made me cover some audit working papers with tea.
Skinny- I have tried to (indirectly) on several occassions to talk you out of this misguided belief you hold that members of the legal profession should turn out word perfect sentences.
The problem with RW is that it dos not have any kind of auto-correct system. In the real world, if i prepare something by e-mail or word then the system tells me if I have made an error.
I emailed a dyslexic friend asking for advice before my first marathon and his tip was to 'just think about the bear at the end'.
DT - sorry I did not realise you were dyslexic (although obviously I should have done)
- my apologies.
Thank Goodness for the return of normal service!
Skinny - I think 7:50's would see me comfortably under 3:30 - more like 3:25/3:26 - but that is building in some cushion for a. the over distance you will inevitably run and b. the inevitable slightly positive split. Also when my head is mashed in the last few miles as long as I keep seeing 7:XX on the Garmin I know I'm ok.
If you would like to do some table updating I'm down another lb at 10st3 but don't feel you have to. I've got a carrot cake baking in the oven so it may be temporary.
Muddy - that is just showing off. I'll probably have to go out and do intervals this week at your recovery run pace or something.
DT - there are toilets in the park by race HQ. Also it's not a huge race (and very clubby) so the toilet situ has never been problematic as far as I can remember at similar races in the Memorial Park. Not sure if there's a disabled toilet for you to camp in though.
Long run wise I'm planning to do this race and then do my final 20 on Easter Monday, the following day. The plan has 17 down but I'd like to get one more in. That will get me to a less magical 99. But I'm not going to quibble the extra mile. Never did get the confidence building 22 in but fuckit.
Well done on the vertical oscillation. Does that mean you are less bouncy?
I'm reading Goater in an effort to distract me from obsessive thoughts about marathon pace. He's got a MASSIVE chip on his shoulder and is the biggest name dropper in the world. Quite entertaining.
McFlooze - DON'T EAT THAT CAKE!!! You lost that pound the previous week.
Re Goater - very true. If I did 20 this week and we're on the same plan should your plan not say 20 this week anyway?
Muddy - mid week its okay but 9-11 miles incl a race on Saturday (parkrun planned) plus 16 miles on Sunday does not look like something that is helping my body mend!
Thanks for the toilet info, its music to my bowels! Anyway, given my skinny diagnosed dyslexia, I believe I am entitled to use disabled toilets without issue now.
I believe that's what it means. It's normally a bit less in faster runs anyway but last night i did 7 miles at 8.50mm pace and it was a mere 8.3. A similar run in February was 9.2, which is representative of other runs.
Is that 'The art of running faster'? I read that while back and was amused by his constant name dropping and his constant use of the world cross country championships for his anecdotes.
Mmm, cake. What's wrong with bouncy people?
I am back from America and have put on about a million stone due to (a) burgers bigger than the moon and (b) bourbon, but there is no need to update the table.
Not sure, Skinny. I've had to jiggle the weeks of the plan around to make the races fit so it should be race then 17 where I've swapped the sessions around. I think I may also have missed a 20 when I was nursing my niggles. I've certainly missed a couple of VO2 max sessions. But I think my actual cake is baked pretty well and if the icing is a bit wobbly here and there then I can live with that.
Welcome back, Lit. Did you get much running in between giant burgers and getting pissed on bourbon?