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Low Carb (high fat) Pirates
in Triathlon
I had a bit of a conversation with some pirates at the Outlaw feedstation who suggested that low carb is a good way to go with weight lose and bonk free training.
So I wanted to know who does low carb? What advice do you have for someone converting? How long did it take you to become fat adapted?
If I am going to get my revenge on the Outlaw I need to stop carrying the excess weight and train more so all Piratey help appreciated.
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I've lost 4 and a half stone since January, the best advice I can give anyone is track your calories. Low carb will work but brings with it another raft of issues such as constipation and bad breath. Work out your TDEE (Total daily energy expenditure), buy some decent scales, track your food using myfitnesspal and eat at 500 cals below maintenance and the weight will slide off you.
I've done LCHF for most of the past two years, as it seems to work best for me.
My opinion, for what its worth, is to get stuck into it from day 1 - by that I mean totally eliminate carbs, rather than try and cut them out gradually.
You will probably feel like crap after the first few days, and training will be a real struggle for a fortnight or so, but then you start to adapt to the diet and things get better. Before long, you'll not need much sustenance before or during exercise.
For me, when I exercise in a morning, I generally go before breakfast, and can quite easily run 20 miles on an empty stomach (barring being injured, as I am presently).
I have found that I now enjoy my food so much more as it has forced me to really think about what I am eating. I make/cook meals from scratch almost every meal now, and I like the fact that I know down to the last seed what I am putting in my mouth.
I manage to get most of my fat from avocado, yoghurt, cheese, seeds and oils (coconut oil, olive oil etc), and less so from meat.
I eat a lot of greens, lots of vegetable, but barely any fruit.
I am also quite partial to the odd bag of pork scratchings, and almond butter is on tap at my gaff.
There are quite a few good sites around if you want recipes etc (dietdoctor.com, edify.com etc), or just go to Pintrest and type in LCHF or Banting, and you'll find all you need.
Oh, and for every person you speak to who likes the low carb, high fat thing, you'll find at least two or three who think it's crap and that you're daft to do it.
Each to their own, just do what works for you.
Simo, I have been low carb since December 14, the bad breath went after 2 weeks and the constipation shows that you nutrient balance is out.
Bad breath is as a result of acetone excretion through the breath and once adapted it goes away and only happens when ultra low carb 20 grms per day. IE Ketogenic
if you have any problems with insulin resistance then even tracking calories may not get you the result you want if you are not cycling you muscle glycogen often enough or are eating more carbs than than you are burning, as the body will convert it to fat then store it. Another out come of high carbs is high insulin production which inhibits the bodies ability to access and burn it's fat reserves properly.
I have done a lot of research on this in the last year and if anyone is interested I can post up a few podcasts on both low carb and Keto, whice are varying degrees of the same process. I can also post up links to a few interesting books.
I know that low carb is controversial especially to people whom have studied mainstream nutrition so I would like to say that I am not prepared to argue the rights and wrongs of either approach but I am prepared to provide info and resources for those who would like to learn more.
Cross post with Pudge
EP, you asked about adaption time. Training was Ok after about 3 weeks but I had to really increase my salt intake. and I am still seeing new benefits all the time. Even after 7 months. I tend to cycle my carb intake a bit. So the day before a big session I will eat some carbs, something like a baked potato smothered in butter than for the next couple of day will keep it ultra low just which I find helps with recovery.
pixie - is it something you can maintain for life? I know I wouldn't want to spend my life being obsessed about how many carbs I am eating, then being fed up with myself because I ate a piece a cake at work or something stupid like that (oh, when I was doing weightwatchers years ago I went home in tears once because I ate one chocolate biscuit - I knew that I had to get a more sensible relationship with food!).
You would probably find it more effective to control portion size than obsessing about low carb/high carb. I am sure you know what are healthy and unhealthy choices, so cut out the unhealthy choices most of the time, use a smaller plate, weigh your food, keep a food diary and be honest with yourself
I've been low carb, high fat for two years.
It's been revolutionary. Total weight loss so far is 4.5 stone (I have about two to go).
Pixie, everyone's advice is valuable. For me, I've never had constipation problems or too much problem with bad breath.
I started with Whole 30... http://whole30.com/ and also elimated eggs and nightshade plants (tomatoes, chillis, peppers, onions).
After whole 30 put some dairy back in (cheese and cream for my coffee) but stayed off eggs, tomatoes and peppers since I find the inflammatory.
I don't worry about calories in the slightest (it's one of the beautiful things about eating this way - I've suffered from an eating disorder for most of my adult life and found 'diets' really dangerous). This way I just get to eat delicious food and not worry about counting anything or labelling food bad or good etc.
It took a good six weeks to get my running legs back fully but I was very carb heavy and since the transition to fat burning can run marathon without any nutrition.
EP, I would go for a low carb approach then rather than a keto approach as you have events in the not to distant future. I would also consider holding off until after you long run as with happy chap my adaption period was quite long due to my heavy carb dependence.
Probably the best approach is the one outlined by Proff Tim Noakes Author of the Lore of running.
http://www.trispecific.com/fb-86-banting-for-health-performance-with-timothy-noakes/
Noake's book on the subject, well worth a read. Especially considering his pedegree.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Real-Meal-Revolution-Sustainable/dp/1472135695
I will post some more info this later when I have a little more time to dig it out.
I just read Mathschick comments again and they are very valid. Everyone is different. I have a real issue with food. One of the biggest is what I believe to be an addiction to carbs. Taking out refined carbs such as pasta, rice, potatoes, cakes, biscuits etc has been brilliant in all honesty and certainly something that I find easy to maintain. I feel it has really freed me from what felt like a real struggle.
I don't count how many carbs I'm eating (I eat shed loads of fresh fruit and veg) and I don't get stressed about it too much. If we go round to a friends for dinner I eat what's put in front of me (although I do try to stay gluten free, so if rice or potatoes are an option I'll pick that above flour products and I avoid bread like the plague because it really doesn't agree with me). Then I get back on it once that meal is over.
Thinking about it, the biggest benefit I've had from eating this way is a lack of guilt actually. And being able to enjoy eating really tasty food rather than obsessing over ever point, gram or calorie.
I've genuinely never felt better.
Mark's Daily Apple is a really good website... http://marksdailyapple.com/
I also like the recipes on Stupid Easy Paleo... http://stupideasypaleo.com/recipe-index/
Tim Noakes is also on Twitter and puts some great stuff on there too https://twitter.com/ProfTimNoakes
HC, I certainly agree with your last comment
In your penultimate post.
Mathschick,I understand you points and see there validity but from my perspective I have found it much easier to keep carbs down than I ever did counting calories and keeping a food diary. The one thing I have found with high fat is it addresses the hunger issue of dieting far better than any other diet I have tried so I very rarely over eat.
Interesting question and points........
So those of you who have lost weight doing this........do you feel it's due to the change in the "quality" or the "quantity" of your food intake i.e. have you lost weight due to not eating carbs per se or have you lost weight simply because you've reduced calorie intake by omitting X calories per day (and perhaps replacing with veg which are much lower calorie) ?
Another point is the hunger issue Duda referred to.........Pixie, do you eat for hunger or habit? This may also be an influencing factor in your decision
Good luck whatever you decide
I'd be interested to follow your progress 
It's also worth saying I had tests done prior to starting because having been indoctrinated with high carb is good/essential for exercise and fat is bad for you through various forms over the years (Sports degree, PT Course etc). I went into the high fat, low carb thing somewhat sceptical and as a last resort.
I'd already been diagnosed with fibromyalgia. The tests also a non alcohol fatty liver, high blood pressure (155/95), High cholesterol (especially LDL) and blood glucose bordering on intervention via drugs required (borderline diabetes).
18 months later, liver function normal, blood pressure normal (120/80), cholesterol down from over 7 to 5.1 and an increase in HDL so a much better ratio, blood sugar level normal (no diabetes risk). And crucially, fibromyalgia all but gone.
Podds, I eat more than I did previously
but it is all real food, not synthetic or manufacturered (I grow a lot of the fruit and veg myself).
HC, interesting post re- test results as mine are showing the same inprovements.
Here are a couple of good books on the Ketogenic approach
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Art-Science-Carbohydrate-Living-ebook/dp/B005CVV2AE
http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Art-Science-Carbohydrate-Performance-ebook/dp/B008BYG7RW/ref=pd_sim_351_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=10BRKZA9CYZ67GT2Z4HR
It's also worth searching for podcasts by the authors but the following link is related to a study they have just completed comparing hi carb and low carb athletes. The muscle glycogen results are very interesting as it would appear that there is a metabolic pathway for glucose synthesis from fat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQbgdRoAfOo
Some notes a friend wrote in an email to me on the above podcast, sorry if they are a bit geeky ( please feel free to ignore them
1. 25:19 The muscle glycogen was identical in both the high carb and low carb athletes before during and after exercise. Previous research indicated LC athletes were operating at 60% of HC. Previous tests were on athletes after 4 weeks of adaptation to LC, which was long enough for them to have identical performace to their baseline and the HC group. In the FASTER study the average LC athlete was 19 months adapted. In sled dog experiments LC and HC dogs had the same muscle glycogen and synthesis. -So I'm guessing that not feeling like you can go 100% on LC does not have to do with carb refeeds etc. Maybe it is the salts!
2. 29:05 Full transcriptome analysis of skeletal muscle, four genes with the most difference between LC and HC. Histone deacetylase inhibitors, protein phosphatase 1 regulates glycogen use. HMG coa synthase regulates ketone and cholesterol synthesis, codes for beta oxidation. Adaptations at the genetic level from LC adaptation.
3. 31:30 Cholesterol results. LDL/HDL ratio is the same in LC and HC athletes but HC has higher total values. NMR shows that LC has smaller LDL and the increase in LDL is all in the large fraction. LC athletes are more insulin sensitive.
4. 23:48 The serum metabolites values aren't particularly interesting, but it was new data released.
5. 1/2 of the HC athletes wrote back after the study to say that they switched to LC after the study and are doing much better.
Still waiting on the mitochondrial data!
I've been looking into this, and have started playing with it, well, cutting carbs, similar to what I did for my IM training in 2013, really cut back on the carbs, and lost weight whilst training, back in the bad habits now but have started changing in the last 10 days, the thought of eating a high fat diet is perplexing me and giving me issues, the cutting of carbs isn't giving me any issues. Plus I tend to eat chicken and protein and I think it is the thought of cutting that back that is causing me more issues.
Breakfast this morning was Bacon x 2 rashers, scrambled eggs with butter and cheese, not eaten since and feel full
thanks for all the links duda - I enjoy reading books etc around the subject, even if I am sceptical and enjoy eating carbs!
HC - interesting to hear your results and glad to hear the fibromyalgia is gone
Low/No Carb diets are massively unhealthy. Carbs aren't just pasta/potatoes/rice/bread ... vegetables and fruit are also carbohydrates. All you can basically eat is meat and dairy.
You wouldn't see any kind of athlete eating like that... and they are not over weight. To lose weight eat less calories than you burn every day. The Brownlee's eat cake, chips and pies... but they don't have an ounce of fat on them!
I have started eating low carb, but remove bread, pasta and processed carbs as much as possible but still have a very small quantity of potatoes and loads of vegetables and some fruit. The first week was a massive weight loss now settling down. I have felt more full eating this way, no need to snack between meals.
I read the book The paleo diet for endurance athletes by Cordain and Friel, which I thought made sense, as they recommend eating more carbs after long training sessions. It seems to be important to consider the what, when and how much you eat, I am still eating small quantities of dark chocolate and have a day each week when I eat what I fancy regardless of the carb content.
I can't comment on how it affects training as I have been ill and only just getting back into very gentle training.
Green leafy stuff is deemed ok as is a huge range of other food that provide carbs.
The idea is not to eat concentrated carbs as if thy are the most important thing in our diet.
Those foods Should only be eaten when there is not enough 'good' food to go round.
I do still eat a fair bit of flour based stuff but I am gradually decreasing my dependence and am getting leaner as I go.
All it takes is commitment and being able to have sin days without abandoning the approach completely:
Pixie, a few meal ideas of a day for me would be
Breakfast,
Scrambled eggs and streaky bacon or
Omelet with pepper, tomato, chorizo and a bed of spinach with some walnut oil and white balsamic. or
the cream of the top of a can of coconut milk with some berries in. Blackberries are very low carb as are raspberries but strawberries and blueberry add some variety too. ( just don't go mad with the berries)'
Lunch
Salad, with homemade mayo( its quite easy to make, I use cold pressed Sesame oil with a little hemp oil added because I try to keep polyunsatured fats to as much of a minimum as possible) you can then add; oily fish, advocado , hard boiled eggs, goats cheese. Anything like to it. I also often have the other half of my breakfast omelet as it saves time if I have a busy day.
Courgette ribbons lightly sautéed with goat cheese and pine nuts, is very fast and delicious.
Dinner
White fish fried in butter with a parsley sauce made by melting full fat soft cheese in a pan and stirring in parsley served with green veg
Slow cooked shin of beef, with carrots and celery, with butter fried spring greens or cabbage
Thai red curry using chicken thighs and cocnut oil, ( I use Mae Ploy red curry paste)
Oven baked Chicken thighs with chopped corgette, fennel and baby plum tomatoes, you could also use aubergine and sweet peppers
Home made mousaka.
If I feel hungry and or need a boost of fat I have a Bullet proof coffee, something I was weary of a first but its essentially a coffee (not instant) with a spoonful of unsalted butter and a spoonful of coconut fat blended in to it
I also tend to add loads of butter to any veg am having and have discovered that mashed caulifower is very good in stead of mashed potatoes.
I also carry macadamia nuts and beef jerky with me in the car in case i get caught short and need a snack.
Sometime forward planning helps, hence eating out of the back of my car at the feed station.
I hope the above goes to prove that its not a restricted diet as many people think and it helps those looking for ideas
On a personal note I avoid cream as my body turns the lactose into glucose and Itend towards Keto rather than just low carb as keto controls the symptoms of my reactive hypoglycaemia better .
Good post VDOT51,
I would suggest that anyone who is sceptical do a little research in to the emerging studies I would start with the Proff Noakes Interview that I posted on the first page. I have found that people often comment as they have been taught otherwise or have not done any research.
I have to say Duda those meals do sound rather scrummy.......although my complete lack of culinary skills is always a handicap
.......... and I really do mean a complete lack of skills, I can barely boil an egg and don't enjoy cooking....
Thanks Podds, some of the books I have referenced have meal ideas in too.
You don't need to be a culinary master, just organised. I slow roast a lot of meat and will bulk cook so I can get several meals out of it (Makes it cheaper too). A slow cooker is invaluable as is an oven. With a few herbs and spices you can make the most delicious meals without much cooking. I'm a master of one pot wonders!
Fundamentally this will either become a way of life for you or it won't. Simples
Typical days for me would be...
Breakfast
Streaky bacon and sauteed mushrooms
Last nights leftovers
100% meat sausages (the butcher makes them for me)
vegetable stirfry
Frittata or omelete (when I'm eating eggs) - lots of yummy recipes out there
Lunch
Cold meat and salad generally - although often I don't need lunch
Dinner
Chicken casserole with whatever veg is in season
Thai Green chicken/pork curry
Slow roast belly pork with seasonal greens and homemade coleslaw (I make my mayonnaise like Duda above)
Leg of Lamb - yum and a half leg will keep me going most of the week
Roast chicken with veg
Chicken/pork stir fry
Dinner is generally satisfying enough but if I feel like dessert I'll whip some cream and mix a few berries in.
In the week before/after a big event (marathon/Ironman or race I want to PB at) I'll add some sweet potato to the meal.
If I need comfort food I'll cook some mashed potato and add loads of butter and cream to it. Or add some black pudding to my breakfast.
I eat out a reasonable amount, steak is always a good choice. And Indian restaurants go from being a nightmare to being great. Chicken Tikka or Tikka mixed grill with a side portion of cauliflower or spinach bhaji (hold the rice and naan bread).
I tend to cook with either ghee, coconut oil or veg oil. Unlike Duda, I don't mind the occasional bit of cream in my coffee (it's a nice treat) but only have one or two a day. Tea is drunk black - it doesn't take long to get used to it.
Snacks
I keep a supply of cashews in case of emergency
And beef jerky but from a proper deli rather than the sweetened packet stuff you get in the supermarket
Crispy pre cooked streaky I cook first thing and keep in the fridge
One thing that was also really important for me was not to substitute bad habits. So for example, although lots of the paleo websites have lots of recipes for sweet treats I refuse to go down the line of making them. Comfort eating is a big problem for me so I avoid making anything (no matter how low carb/paleo they were) that fits the 'snack' market. For me it is about changing behaviour and habits. It helps to break the carb addiction.
As with any nutrition guide or diet, its all about sustainabilty.
Ive looked at many different ways of nutrition, even the caveman diet. Very simply its what suits your life style. Any new way of eating changes the way you live. Its how best you can cope with this as to how long you can manage to maintain that new lifestyle.
I dont get the no carb diets, especially for the training expected. As some have said it works well for them but it doesn't for me.
For me its eat little and often. Watch the bread intake, eat more nuts and seeds than fruit. The hard thing is giving up the man made produce. Its all really about everything in moderation.
I blame our parents, hands up all those who had half a loaf of bread on the table at every meal time!!!!
The key thing is it's not a no carb diet. There are plenty of carbs in the fruit and veg. It's more a no crap/grain diet (nothing refined or manufactured).