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anyone else kicking the weed?
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all i can say is what didnt work for me and say that the most successful approach (the 3 months) was Allen Carr's method. I am actually not letting smoking get in the way of my running whereas before i was. I am lost as to what to do next tbh - exhausted all methods.-from willpower, patches, hypnosis and the like. I trust there is a way.
i learned early on that only i can do it -the methods are just aids
I didn't ask you what quit aids you are using. I asked what you are doing differently. What's your plan for when a crave hits you? Do you know the circumstances when you most want a smoke? How are you going to avoid those situations? What are your tactics? What were the circumstances when you bust the 3 month quit? What would you do to handle the situation differently now? What are you going to do to fill the time you would have spent smoking? What are you going to hold between your fingers instead of a fag? What are you going to do, six months down the line, when you think you've cracked it and could handle just one fag?
If you can't answer those questions then you haven't really learned anything from all that experience.
To fail to prepare is to prepare to fail, and if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got.
Not going to get drawn into an argument coz I can't be arsed but
You still on them Hoose?
End stage emphysema scares me.
My eldest at 3 asking to go out in the garden to "watch daddy do a cigarette" scared me more.
Colds are a piece of pi55 when you don't smoke any more BTW.
Not being able to breathe is so fecking scary I don't even want to go there. Mints don't help
Come on Hoose, make a call. There's a good chap.
Or give up till Xmas Day, then PM me.
AD -everything you suggest has been done-some helps some didnt.. I certainly agree with your last statement.
Dustboy-end stage emphysena scares me too- as does feeling that maybe something in me will drive me to that stage. Lttle in life scares me but they really do.
not hacking so many in me these days but cutting down can only be temporasry.
i do apptrciate most comments and some do help spur me on.
x
Fascinating stuff. I’ve been in recovery for a little over 16 years and have seen/heard exchanges like this hundreds of times.
Sadly Hoose, AD is right (even if it’s a bit of a tough love way of giving the message). You’re an addict who is deluding themselves and appears to have become a master of rationalisation and excuses. You say you have developed great self-knowledge etc. but clearly you haven’t. Anyone who can bang on relentlessly about giving up year after year, just playing the same record again and again clearly has learned very little of the truth, rather you've developed your addictive rationalisations to a fine art.
The truth of it is simply that you are an addict. Rationally you understand you should give up and this logical part of you wants to. Sadly addiction is a sneaky, nasty illness and at the moment it’s more powerful than you, hence you cave in as soon as things get tough – you’ve developed a masterly line in how you’ll do it differently next time and excusing yourself the slip. You have both the solution and the problem within you, but you keep running back to the problem.
The only answer is to understand and accept the truth of the situation and do something about it. This is what Allen Carr is all about - essentially he takes the rationalisations of the addict (smoking helps you relax, is sociable etc.) and exposes them for what they are. Sadly, in most addictions the number of people who do understand the truth and then do something about it is very low – I would estimate for alcoholics (for example) it’s under 5%. Probably 95% of them know logically what the problem is (i.e. they're like you) but only 5% will actually change. The reason is it’s not easy, whatever anyone says. Getting and staying clean requires effort and courage.
Lots and lots of effort, It was one of the hardest things I've ever done, I smoked for 30 years. But I stopped.. Cos I wanted to stop.
I had just moved in with a new partner who is a Doctor, and she was desperate for me to stop, But she accepted that her nagging me wouldn't help. The only thing that would make me stop was ME, and 12 months after we got together (without me telling her) I stopped one Friday lunchtime, as I was leaving the house on the Monday morning she commented that she hadn't seen me pop outside all weekend for a quick one, and I told her. I got a hug and a kiss, and haven't looked back since.
Can't say I haven't been tempted, cos I have. and sometimes I fancy one in the "usual situations" in the pub after a meal stuck on the M6 ! and other times out of the blue I suddenly have a crave. But it's ME that stops it going further. Not Allen Carr, or a plastic tampon or a stick on patch, but ME....
Like I say one of the hardest things I've done, But an achievement of which I am rather proud, Which is why I happily take the piss out of Hoose, who only "plays" at giving up, always has an excuse, always has a reason why he has failed, and why it isn't his fault.
It is your fault, no back bone, lack of moral fibre etc young man.
Now have thoose last 3 this morning, and then get your head around the fact you are an ex smoker, and that much as you said being teased wouldn't help, think about what a prat you will feel tomorrow when you admit to me and AD that you have failed again.
RR -I accept that there is some delusion going on -or I would be off em wouldnt I. I am not sure quite where the delusion lies if I did I would not be deluded-surely?. I have great self knowledge developed over the years and through counselling training-you have to have a fair bit to do the job. You can have self knowledge and be an addict -which I am.However, I may have to accept that I am not superman and like us all there is gaps in self knowledge.
It aint about backone or lack of it -it is about the tricks addiction can play. I never suffer physical withdrawal badly -I can cope with that. It is the mental stuff , I "oddly" suffer from.
I really enjoyed my 3 months of freedom and really felt myself again (the self I REALLY KNOW) - that is what is inspiring me now-to get that back.
I take your point DTS re "ME" - that is true-the rest are mere aids. I still have 2 left and will be putting myself in the situation , however scarey it may be for my addicted mind. I DID NOT PLAY GIVING UP IN THAT 3 MONTHS -I had actually did it. Accept that at least.
Is it morally right to take the piss out of an addict?
I know it is killing me and all that. I have beaten gambling years ago and got over a severe psychotic breakdown. That takes guts and grit. Somewhere is the power to beat this.
what I do know
addiction can possess you like a demon
addiction can defy logic
addiction is a mental problem largely
smoking can be worse than heroin addiction
there is no such thing as one cigarette-it is a myth
smoking does not help any situation
smoking takes over every last bit of your life and gives nothing back
It isnt your personality that addicts it is the drug (though jury is out on that)
OK I am going to have my last fag. Support and perhaps some grounding now eh?
I am taking on board what RR says and some of what DTS says (apart from the backbone rubish). I would say OK I will do it your way but it wont be ME then would it?
who mentioned failure? No other way to express what I am gonna do is there?
or maybe you are trying to provoke an "I will show you!" out of me if so -every little helps
Hoose - agree with some of what you say, disagree with other bits. Certainly agree it's not morally right to take the piss out of an addict, however recovery is all about understanding and accepting the truth about the situation. Perhaps what those taking the mickey are trying to do (and those being tough with you, and any other approach) is to try and make you 'wake up' to the truth.
There's a big difference between logically understanding the truth about smoking (your big list above) and accepting it. When you accept the truth of your addiction you can move on with your life, until then you're constantly stuck with the debating society in your head that persuades you smoking is a viable option. I also agree it's not about willpower - it takes terrific willpower and perseverance to keep smoking when society is against you and you can feel your body breaking down and dying. In many ways addicts have much stronger willpower than others, just directed in the wrong way. That's why I said a while ago the answer isn't to fight, it's actually to surrender. Accept you can't do it and give up fighting with yourself.
Addiction can only persuade you something is true if you believe it somewhere in yourself. Once you understand and accept that it's untrue, it loses it's power over you.
Listing a load of reasons why you can come back tomorrow and say I didn't manage to quit...
There is only one thing holding you back................... YOU
just gonna have the one that is left.
look if I scream I scream OK?
I must be mad displaying my addiction here but here I am wide open
This is your main delusion:
"It aint about backone or lack of it -it is about the tricks addiction can play. I never suffer physical withdrawal badly -I can cope with that. It is the mental stuff , I "oddly" suffer from."
Do you seriously believe that Dave, RR and I haven't experienced all those tricks? Do you seriously believe that you are in some way special, and that this excuses your failure?
Just look at the language you use:
"the tricks that addiction can play"
You are trying to kid yourself that there is you and there is the addiction, that somehow the addiction is an external malign force. I've got news for you, Hoose. It's you. It's the same for me, for Dave and for RR. Do you really think we didn't experience all the things you put yourself through, time and time again? Don't try and tell us that we don't understand, that it's harder for you. We understand perfectly.
After you've put that one out just do what it takes. Scream, rant, sulk, wear a rubber chicken on your head if you want. If you want any tips, just ask, but basically it's up to you.
yes no doubt you have all sufferred that. It also takes backbone to constantly stop again and again even though you feel beat. I have een this way for 18 years regarding stopping but smoked for over 40 years.
I am angry coz having been diagnosed with COPD -i still do it. I could beat myself up to a pulp regarding that - what good would that do. To people I work with I am just a good counsellor who smokes. Here i have lay myself bare and opened up about my addiction . I accept there are delusions abbout-but if I knew what they were I would not be deluded.
OK - how I did get
I got up smoked and planned a stop . I put runs, appointments and going out on hold because i was stopping. I stopped but did nothing because i was stopping. Felt fine for a bit ut soon got them again, then hated myself coz I started. I plannened another stop and the same again. This went on for 2 years everyday except Xmas's -that is a nightmare. To a lesser extent the other 16 years was similar.I hope that never happened to anybody else.
Now I cannot allow myself to stop every day coz I dont want to put my life on hold and watch the years go by -hating them and hating the addictive part of myself and still dont want to continue smoking. The 3 months free I had was like a big holiday from that. I was a millimeter off commiting suicide when I went bback coz could not go through the stop start again.
that is the truth about me- if you want it
That's not the whole truth Hoose. You are still deluding yourself and your language betrays the fact. You talk about having an addiction. That's victim-speak. An addiction is not something you have. An addict is something that you are. By the way, yep. I'm addicted to tobacco. Always will be. But I don't smoke.
Your last post is full of victim-speak, Hoose. That's not a good place to start from. You could turn it round, but it'll take *real* guts and determination.
that is where i was and yes i sure felt a victim then. However, I kept trying and trying and trying-didnt I. A true victim would have give up giving up as they say. Yes I belive you are always going to be addicted to tobacco but dont smoke. I was the same for 3 months.
I dont fgeel a victim now-just lost in my addiction or myself if ithe addiction is what i am
again is the addiction keeping me debating
Nope it's YOU !
Some people are never happier than when they are miserable, My ex is at her happiest when she is miserable and ill or stressed.....
Saw her a couple of weeks back and all she could go on about was her bad hip, and her arthritis and the credit crunch, She was actually enjoying being miserable. Wasn't til about 3 hours later she mentioned she had got a fab promotion and a new 5 series Beemer.... Nope for 3 hours it was all misery and un-happiness (Have to give her credit tho, the minute she found out she was pregnant she has never touched a smoke since)
Some people like her and Hoose are happy being a victim, and get pleasure out of being miserable.
It's not Hoose's fault, it's the addiction, he is an adicit and therefore it's not his fault..
Got some bad news for you.. IT IS YOUR FAULT ! You make the choice to light up and smoke,
DTS -most of that is crap and in no way helpful. I dont enjoy the misery of addiction and I am happier when I am happy.
A lot of your attitude is about anger in YOU as my addiction is about ME.
It is not about fault, that is rubbish. Imagine every alki and addict blaming themselves in that way-that is what creates victims. You have an axr to grind for some reason. Stop grinding it here. I chose to have my first cigarette at 9 years old - I never knew I was an addict til years later when I triede to chose not to. Chosing not to gets harder and harder.
go and "help" someone else
So now you should be in a good position to do something about it:
"Sadly, in most addictions the number of people who do understand the truth and then do something about it is very low – I would estimate for alcoholics (for example) it’s under 5%. Probably 95% of them know logically what the problem is (i.e. they're like you) but only 5% will actually change. "
The question is, are you going to be one of the few?
"The reason is it’s not easy, whatever anyone says. Getting and staying clean requires effort and courage. "
It requires more effort and courage than making repeated failed attempts. Nobody is interested in you posting some kind of admission of weakness. Nobody is gratified by scoring points off you. What matters is what you admit to yourself and what you then do about it. We can only tell you the truth. Whether you believe it, deep down, and act on it is up to you.
Nobody ever died of wanting a smoke and not having one. Nobody, in the history of mankind. Think on that.
Not trying to be nasty Hoose - just reflecting back what you're saying with a question:
saying it's an addiction is saying you can do nothing about it and you are helpless
saying it's your choice says you can do something about it
I'd say the former makes you more of a victim. Who's more empowered? Someone who says they're helpless or someone who says they have a choice?
"It also takes backbone to constantly stop again and again even though you feel beat."
Sorry, but I disagree, strongly. You're going through the cycle again and again because the future frightens you. As well it might. But when the hard bit starts your resolve fails because, well, the future is the future whereas the discomfort of the crave is now. I can have one now. I can always have another go later.
That's not backbone, IMHO.
My understanding of addiction is very clear and simple. Certain chemicals change the way your brain and body work and over time, with repeated use, your brain and body adapt in response. When you then stop taking the chemical you feel bad – you go into withdrawal as what you have become used to is not being supplied. You are addicted. If you don’t take the chemical again for long enough, the brain and body adapt again and go back to their ‘normal’ state.
To break an addiction the first step is to stop taking the drug and adapt back to your normal state. You can do this all in one go (Cold Turkey) or you can use some kind of tapering method to reduce the physical withdrawal.
There’s other elements to it as well. We associate behaviours, states of mind, situations etc. with the drug, so when you encounter them without the drug they feel strange. Part of recovery is therefore getting clean in the first place (getting through withdrawal) and part of it is learning to live without the drug (i.e. staying clean). People get very hung up on the first part, but in many ways the second is just as difficult. There are millions of people who swear they’ll never drink again after some horrible experience, only to forget with time and go back to it. You need to address your thought patterns and get a healthy perspective on your addiction. This is what I mean by understanding the truth about addiction.
There are lots of techniques and tools for this – cognitive therapy, group therapy, living in the day, switching to non-harmful substitutes (lollipops a la Kojak !), finding religion etc.
I work with addicts a lot as part of recovery and as I’ve said it’s all too familiar. As much as anything, I’ve learned that you can talk until you’re blue in the face to an addict and try and cajole, persuade, bully them into realising their situation and that there is an answer. Ultimately unless they want to change it’s all just noise. I’m not going to waste any more of my time on the subject. If you want to quit, quit. If you don’t, don’t. Be happy with your choice and get on with your life.
And one final point !
Whether you like it or not the choice you make (to stop or not) is exactly that - your choice. You choose to either meet and overcome a situation using the drug or not using it. The more you do it without, the better you get at it (i.e. you practice) and eventually you don't even think about the drug when you encounter the situation.
If every time you meet a problem you run back to the drug then you're making a choice and practicing the bad behaviour. Guess what, you get good at it too.
It is a choice. You can't control the chemical 'reaction' that makes you an addict, but once you realise what you are you can (and every day do) choose your own response to the situation.
Like I said before it's not easy, because change never is. But it can be done and you're the only person who can do it.
I was not going to post on this thread-in fact asked for it to be pulled.
However, the views I have heard ,here , I have heard before. Nothing wrong with those that talk of choice - I dont feel as if there is a choice though and yes that is part of the addictivve mind.
Bear- I accept the point you make about saying I am an addict making me more of a victim if that was changed to making me feel like more of a victim-it is true in my experience coz it does.
RR -it is all noise to me - the cajoling and such - most people dont like to feel bullied and will run away-that is why that method is counter productive.
I "know" the only person it is down to is me but maybe I cant find all the tools right now.
I am not dismissing all the views here, I share many but logic does not produce the answer when merely presented and even if absorbed it is doubtful to give the answer.
I have been in battle with it a long time and when you put yourself in battle you get tired and drained. There is something in the view that you surrender to it as RR said before.
RR -I have worked with addicts but not in a therapeutic role -I would be no use as I am . I have also seen the uselessness of bullying them from first hand. Place nearly closed down because of a bullying manager. I was one who started that ball rolling and I am proud I helped change the regime.