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Training for under 40 min Audi 10k
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By the way it's happened to me before but not after such a short distance like today.
Spilts;
7.44 miles @ 7:50 m/m
1) 7:57
2) 7:55
3) 6:52
4) 7:07
5) 7:15
6) 8:35
7) 8:47
8) 3:44 (.44 of a mile)
Total - 58:16
Quick question...is RHR minimum/lowest recorded heart rate? I'm about 43 sitting down and zoing out, but got it down to 39 lying down a few weeks ago - know it's not ultimately important, just curiosity.
Stretch much after running Twiiix? Refuel well? Alcohol? My legs often feel rubbish before I go out, but a gentle 5 mins on the stationary bike can wake them up.
Yes resting heart rate is when your doing nothing, sitting down reading the paper...
Yeah I stretch always after a run, and refuel well. No don't really drink. I just felt like there was nothing in me. I only had cereal before the run to fuel me and not too much water which I think could have been my downfall.
I just felt empty throughout the run, like I was reduced to a death trot. Same with yesterdays easy run, had little in me. I think overtraining is the answer. I can either take next week very easy and start again the week after or just man next week out and then take my cutback week which suppose to be that week after next.
You never hit the wall in a run before? Horrible horrible horrible, especially to hit it so early on.
Had food poisoning come on just before my first marathon. 1st toilet stop at 4 miles: lots of blood
10, 13 and 19 followed by which time I felt emaciated but somehow I think it helped me avoid the mental side of the wall and just tough it out. Ran into a city pub twice to go, one set of loos was on the 2nd floor, my HR read out is quite funny in hindsight. Think I lost 8 lbs or so during the run.
Only genuinely hit the wall once 1.5 miles to go on a 16.5 miler, ears went, dizzy, couldn't drive home, nearly fainted a few times after I finished, felt like crying - not cool indeed.
Perhaps the intensity needs to be lowered as opposed to the mileage for a few weeks? FIT being the parameters.
I think you misunderstood my RHR question, or I'm over-complicating it. Is it at rest, or the lowest as in uber-rest lying down, zoned out from the world, no stimuli anywhere ie minimum not resting? I believe the latter as it has no external factors to falsely affect it, but believe most people falsely use the former??
Your RHR is when you are not active, ie sitting down. If you want to find out your lowest HR then get a 24hr monitor and you'll see your HR is lowest when your in deep sleep. Before I started running my HR was 43bpm at 6am, but it's normal for it to be that low at that time. By the way, even though I wasn't that fit I've always had a history of exercise. Football, gym, swimming...
Back on topic, feel like sub 40mins 10k is virtually impossible. That's going by todays run where I just blew up early on. I've either ran myself into the ground or have done permanent damage to my body by overtraining and now lost fitness.
5 months is 5 months away, 150 days or so. Confidence is fickle, don't use it as a barometer and don't be too quick to judge yourself harshly or congratulate yourself too heartliy too, soething about "if"??
Just take the training easy and only ever move one of FIT (Frequency, Intensity and Time(Distance in running terms)) at a time. Have a slow week next week but try and preserve the mileage, then introduce a few quicker runs over the following two weeks. Base training, as I think we've established on here, is about distance and not speed.
True, I'm following this program and had me down as a tempo run today. I just didn't have the legs for it. Anyhow, my breathing wasn't laboured so that's a good sign? My muscles were not sore either, have I just trained too much and lost all of my reserves?
I'm capable of a sub 42 minute 10k, but today if I had to do a 10k I would have failed badly. But that's training for you, suppose to whack you out. Next week is going to be totally easy. No faster than 8 minute miling and 40mpw hopefully.
I may take tommorow off, let my body regain something.
Paul it's unbelieveable what racing does to you. Do a hard 10k and the effects can last with you for weeks if you don't allow yourself to recover from it.
I think when I next race I'm going to do a reverse taper week after, it's the way to go. 20 miles in two days after? Madness!
Do you feel fresh these days or you feeling sluggish and unmotivated?
You dont sound very confident Twiiix, but i bet in a few days or so you ll be up for it again! Not that far from you, Reading area, you asked about entering races, which is my biggest problem as i love the buzz of doing them, even when i dont enter my OH enters the both of us!
Since Reading half i ve done 5 others, only slightly tapered for one of them keeping at the 40+ a week, so no threshold/tempo or long repeats during this period. I know its not good for me but im seeing really good improvements with every race bringing new pbs! Have a 10k sunday and Wokingham half week after then nothing booked so will take it up to 55 ish a week and see what happens.
All runs are done at 140 HR = 8 min miles on very undulating routes, apart from the LSR (14m+) which is 8:10ish.
If i was you Twiiix i d enter a 10k in a month or so, when you put in a good time you ll have the perfect confidence boost!
MM: Whenever I put the miliage up I feel whacked. Not straight after the run, but the day after. Maybe Paul is right about myself running my easy runs a bit too fast, or maybe my body just isn't suited to putting in the high miliage. That's why I say not two people are the same, where it might work for one doesn't mean it'll work for the other.
I'm going to give other distances a shot at and see what really feels natural to me. Yeah was thinking about a 10k next month, but the way I feel now I feel like 50 minutes would be a struggle let alone sub-40
I'm sure I've just overtrained, but I've overtrained many times and it now feels easy to overtrain. Is this where I need a proper rest from running for a little while?
I would kind of agree with Paul. I think with a break of about 30-45mins with some carb drink I could re-do any session I just did bar a couple of days when ive just felt totally sluggish and tired.
BUPA Great Manchester Run for me on Sunday and Ive only managed about 3 runs in 3 weeks due to injury but spent plenty of time in the gym, cycling and swimming so hoping to get round in half decent time.
You can go sub-40 minutes on base alone. I promise you. All that a hard tempo run is doing is reducing your ability to train, ie. reducing the amount of training you can do in a given time (a week, a month, whatever) because you're losing time to rest days.
You are almost certainly running ALL of your miles too fast, let alone your easy stuff.
Did you read Rachel's comments? She's on for well under 39 minutes for 10k... and that's on base mileage alone.
That's my reasoning behind a HR monitor... if you're blasting round for half an hour at 200bpm... then you're clearly in an anaerobic state and picking up lactate like there's no tomorrow. Anaerobic, lactate and a raised blood PH means that your recovery will suffer.
I think what you two are forgetting is the form of a runner. Some people are not suited to long distances, therefore the higher miliage they do the more it strikes back on them.
There have been people who can run a 17min 5k but once they go into the 40's of the miliage their body just can't handle it. All I can do is be patient and hope my body adapts to 40mpw and I will bring the pace down to 8:15 m/m no quicker.
Paul and SA, what are your 800/1500m times?
Best 800m I've ever done is about 2'32", but that was almost 5 years ago, so no idea what I'd do now.
My best 400m is about 70 seconds, bizarrely that was during my timed 1500m mentioned above. I should test all 3 again sometime.
I'm a mess biomechanically... I just built up slowly and patiently and made sure to wear the correct footwear. As I said, just go slow. Slower than 8'15". Slower than 8'30". Have that as your absolutely capped maximum.
Try doing 10-12 weeks where everything you do is purely aerobic. So you feel "comfortably tired" at the end of each run, but like you could do it again.
Squall has the nail squarely on the head, slow down and get the mileage high...be patient padwan
Your VO2 max would increase and as you become more aerobically efficient you wouldn't produce as much lactate. I do believe one (pure, not preset) interval session a fortnight would help your body learn how to deal with lactate once it starts accumulating.
1:43 HM last night as final longer training run, probably a bit quicker than I should have done with the last two taking under 15 mins but know I'll be under 1:40 next Sunday and that sub 1:30 in Oct is well on the cards with more base training.
Good work Cymraeg... 1:30 by October is easily attainable, especially if you can knock out at 1:43 in training right now.
"I don't recall ever saying that people should just run 30 miles per week and expect to reach their potential.
I tell high school coaches often that they need to not focus on intervals until their kids are running 50 miles per week. Actually, if I could be assured that the kids wouldn't hammer every single run like a lot of collegiate kids do, I would say that running 60-70 miles per week without much fast, sustained interval work is better for them than running 40-50 with lots of intervals. I like the idea of juniors and seniors running 60 miles per week with lots of aerobic and anaerobic threshold training and sprints, uphill and on the flats, instead of lactic acid reps such as repeat 400s.
For collegiate runners, they better realize that if they aren't hitting at least 65 miles per week, they are not going to come close to what is possible. In my opinion, 70-80 miles per week should be a goal for people seeking to run well, and more than that for people who are wanting to hit the elite levels in college and beyond. "
I can fit in doubles, do you think they are more managable? This week I've averaged over 8 miles per run, whereas most weeks I'd be averaging 4 miles per run.
I'll google it up Paul, thanks
Hi Guys
got the great manchester 10k on sunday so have been resting up the last few days, nothing over the weekend, a light 4m on monday, 3 x 1m fast on tuesday and 3m very easy last night.
I've been wondering over the last couple of months what time to be aiming for; my recent 5k pb of 18.00 dead would put me on around 37.20 I think.
I think I still had a little left in the tank in that 5k and my pacing was poor with the first 1k about 12secs too fast so i'm toying with the idea of heading out at 37.00 pace, about 3.37 per km. Any thoughts?
Twiix:
I'm quite interested to hear about peoples times from school for the shorter distances and then what their pb's are for longer distances set later in life.
here are mine (as far as I can remember)
100m: 12.2
200m: 27.?
400m: 62
800m: 2.16
1500m: can't remember but a little under 5min I think
Anybody else care to divulge?
Cymraeg J I've logged how I was doing on this thread
http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/forum/forummessages.asp?UTN=136949&URN=6&dt=4&srchdte=0&cp=3&v=6&sp=