Talkback: Lucozade Sport Super Six: Richard (sub-3:15)

Matchstick Man

FLM 2008
10 km 45:56
20 km 47:29
30 km 48:58
40 km 54:42

FLM 2009

10km 45:20
20 km 46:49
30km 48:10
40km 49:00

The aim in 2009 was to hit every 10km in 45mins dead.......

Matchstick Man

Weekly structure - FLM 09 was built around a 3 run per week schedule:
Tuesday - run home from work for 1hr at PMHR (planned marathon HR) or 15mins w/up, 30mins at HM pace, 15mins w/down
Weds - club night (1km reps/1 mile reps/ fartlek/Kenyan Hills) included run down to club and back
Sunday - LSR

Abo - built more around a higher mileage appproach as wife went on maternity leave which left me able to run into work and back from week 8 onwards so I was running in and out 3/4 days and riding in on the bike the other 1 or 2, day off Saturday (family day) and LSR Sunday a.m
Managed a more consistent approach to mileage and knocked out 7 weeks between 40 and 54 mpw whereas in the previous 3 campaigns I'd only managed 2 weeks over 40mpw (FLM 08), 0 weeks over 40mpw (Nott 08), 3 weeks over 40mpw (FLM 09).

Lessons learned - consistent mileage over 40mpw doing 5 days a week and 5 x 20mile LSR = better chance of going sub 3h15 than erratic mileage with hardly any 20 milers - witness the splits of FLM 08 vs FLM 09 for instance.
This iwll be my 5th marathon campaign in 2 years so the endurance I've built up over the previous 4 campaigns and 3 marathons will provide a good background to go full tilt at sub 3h15.

[Deleted User]

Hey Rich, just popping in to say hello .  It's going to be interesting following your training over the next 4 months. I'm gunning for sub 3.30 at VLM, and maybe have a crack at 3.15 in 2011, so it'll be interesting to see how I'll need to step my training up to do that.

Certainly 5 x 20m LSRs is going to be in my plan for VLM, so it's good to see you are aiming for the same.

Have a good break with your family over christmas, and hopefully see you out for a few training runs between now and April !

SBD.

Great detail MM.  Your FLM09 time (weather notwithstanding) was pretty good given the mileage.  Have you worked out what the total mileage of the RW 3:15 schedule is?  I'm not sure I dare add up the total mileage on the P&D 55-70 schedule I'm following but it's going to be pretty close to 1,000.  It is structured over 18 weeks though!  

knight rider

Well done in you super six place richard.
Sounds like your PB's you detailed earlier are very similar to mine, so I'll be hopefully able to get some good advice too.

The Accidental Runner

I'm looking forward to following your progress, MM.  Your FLM09 splits were almost a carbon copy of my own.  Unfortunately, I seem to have regressed since then, whereas you've gone from strength to strength.

As I think I'm currently about 5 minutes slower than you, I'm hoping that you'll finish VLM in about 3:09 (or quicker).  Don't let me down!

Matchstick Man

welcome Boingy (fellow Northbrook AC runner) and Knight Rider.
TAR - seeing as you RINSED me on the final run-in to FLM 09 I'm not surprised our splits were the same. It was just a shame that I wasn't able to keep up with you as you (lunar) glided off into the distance
Pixie Lady - yeah I'm (almost) going to start taking it easy. Off for a run tomorrow morning for an hour with a ex-work colleague then I can start to take things easy for 10 days or so

knight rider

Thanks for the welcome Richard, I think I was about 20 seconds in front of you at the Hinckley Half this year. I got 1.27.08 - much improved course from previous years but still a few tough hills. London next year will be my first Marathon so I am intriuged on which schedule to follow. But seeing your PB's and your lifestyle (with 2 young kids) we are very similar. So I am going to go for it & try the sub 3.15 plan and see how it goes.

Have you been given any nutrition advice for the Christmas period?

Matchstick Man

No nutrition advice given but then I haven't asked for any either. I eat fairly well as my wife cooks fresh food every night and I eat breakfast every day and usually take sandwiches for lunch most days to work. I don't drink at home (at all) and my only vice is being bored at work and eating chocolate bars and cans of pop. My wife and I have cut out our snacking at night now so if I can knock the work nibbles on the head I'll be fine.
As per my forum name I'm built slightly (6'2" and 74kg) so weight has never been an issue but then I've always been cycling since I was 19 and not being a drinker has helped me keep the weight off.
My wife has always said I was going to biff out at 30 (never happened), then 35 (never happened) and now she's saying I'll get fat at 40....
I'm still the same height, shape and weight as I was 20 years ago, the only thing is that I have lost most of my hair
I tend to work on the saying of a cycling friend of mine "if the furnace is hot enough, it'll burn anything"

[Deleted User]

Hi Richard,

How about a compromise? A good weeks running, banking some miles and then a rest/taper week going into the 5 miler and then lets get cracking with the marathon focused running. It is all about timing and get the timing it wrong leads to illness and injury just before the event. We want to arrive at the top of the mountain on race day not falling down the other side! Being patient is key right now.

Liz

Matchstick Man

knight rider wrote (see)

I think I was about 20 seconds in front of you at the Hinckley Half this year. I got 1.27.08 - much improved course from previous years but still a few tough hills.

aha, found you now. Well done as that course was good but it was a HOT day and the rise into the last village at about 11 miles where you went over a cattle grid felt like Alpe D'Huez! I felt like I was wading through treacle by that point and even though it was downhill/flat to the finish I was completely out of it.

Matchstick Man

Liz Yelling wrote (see)

Hi Richard, How about a compromise? A good weeks running, banking some miles and then a rest/taper week going into the 5 miler and then lets get cracking with the marathon focused running. It is all about timing and get the timing it wrong leads to illness and injury just before the event. We want to arrive at the top of the mountain on race day not falling down the other side! Being patient is key right now. Liz

No compromises, you're the expert, not me! I'll give it a break from Wednesday onwards (for 10 days) as you suggested and go into the campaign fresh and well rested. So no 5 miler as I want success on April 25th 2010, not January 3rd.

Hash

Morning MM.  Think of it as taper practice!

Matchstick Man

Cheers Hash. My run this morning got cancelled as running partner called it off due to having a cold. So carding a zero for today as have Christmas stuff to do (present run, shopping etc). Will see how tomorrow pans out but will try a short, easy run if I can make the time

knight rider

Sometimes you just have to go with what life throws at you.

I was planning an 8 miler last until my wife announced she needed me to do some painting in the hallway (trying to get ot done before Xmas) . So I only managed to squeeze in a 4.5miler on the snowy pavements with my off road shoes - even then I didn't get out the house till 9.00pm!

[Deleted User]

MM I see you're following orders, I can see the logic especially with 2 marathon campaigns in 09 but I'm not sure JBFAR has got similar advice from her mentor (?) and she has done an ironman this year. You're both probably about the same level?  I'm not saying either approach is right or wrong just interesting to note, although I'd run. Left, right, left, right as much as poss until April!   

AC

Hello MM - you're going to have a full time job keeping this thread running + training. I guess that's the price of livin' the dream 

Re: resting up - my enforced rest of 10 days recently has left me feeling much fresher but slightly fatter

Is the schedule posted somewhere we can all see?

AC

derrr...just found the schedule hidden prominantly on the first page of the thread....!

Liza with a z

The rest idea is an interesting one. I don't think I'll be doing it quite so extremely, but I must admit having had a couple of manic months I am feeling much better after a couple of days doing not very much and having long lie-ins! Ice here has forced all runs to be done at a very easy pace too.

MM - agree our times from last year are very similar but think comparing our progress will be interesting as my strength is definitely endurance (I am not speedy!) whereas you seem to do really well at the shorter events. I actually followed the RW sub-3.15 schedule (with slightly adjusted paces) last year and thought it worked pretty well. However I thought the mileage was quite low so I upped it a bit. I'm planning on doing something loosely based on the P&D 55-70 mile a week schedule this year.

Enjoy the R&R!

SBD.

Did I here mention of the P&D 55-70 schedule!  I'm using this for Brighton which is the week before London.  So this is week 2 for me and it's going to be tough to get all the sessions in.  It would be good to compare notes with others using the schedule or people that have used the schedule before.  I find the mileage a bit scary as I've never done more than 30 miles per week other than in the recent months leading up to the start of the campaign.   It will also be interesting to compare progress with those following the RW 3:15 schedule.  One of the negatives of P&D is the lack of scheduled longer races (eg HM) as opposed to marathon paced runs (eg 16 mile run with 12 mile at MP).   Shorter tune-up races are included but these are scheduled for Saturday rather than Sunday but I'm hoping I can run these at the local Park Run.

[Deleted User]

Seen Better Days wrote (see)

Did I here mention of the P&D 55-70 schedule!  Shorter tune-up races are included but these are scheduled for Saturday rather than Sunday but I'm hoping I can run these at the local Park Run.

SBD, you need to adapt it, the only reason tune up races are scheduled for Saturday is because this is a common race day in the US where the authors are based.

Liza with a z

SBD - Re: P&D - yes, totally agree with SF, definitely adapt it! I'm moving the days around, including my club speedwork and doing my own race schedule. It'll be interesting for us to compare notes, although maybe slightly confusing as I've mixed it up so much!

ps. Are you sure doing 55-70 mpw off a previous max of 30 mpw is wise? Not that I'm criticising, just wondering...

[Deleted User]

Erm...what's P&D? Those sort of mileages look too much for an injury prone fat lad, so I suspect my maximum mileage this campaign will be 35-45mpw, but I'm determined to do more 20m+ runs this time, which I'm certain is the reason my mara PB (3:23) is comparatively poor compared to other distances. I'm intending to do at least 6 runs of 20m or more, including a couple of 22s and a 24.

SBD.

SF - Yes, I can see the US influence.  The tune-races scheduled are 8K-15K in weeks M-5 and M-4 and 8K-10K in M-2.  So they're still 'shorter' races than eg a raced HM.  There's also long runs (c. 18 miles) scheduled for the day following the tune-up races.  My plan is try and stick to the schedule and use the Black Park parkrun for the saturday tune-up races - I was thinking of doing 2 laps of 5km to give a 10K 'race'!   I'll also enter races (10m and 2 HMs) for the scheduled long runs at MP and run them at MP.

SBD.

Liza - probably not wise but we'll see how it goes.  Although this is my first marathon I'd really like to get under 3:15 so I'm giving it my best shot!  It would be great to compare notes.  I managed to hit week 1 as per schedule.  The main challenge this week (apart from Christmas and the arctic conditions) will be the 16miles with 8miles at MP on Sunday - hitting and maintaining MP after 8miles could be a challenge ...

SBD.

AfE - I wasn't sure if that was a serious question.   Pfitzinger & Douglas have a great book 'Advanced Marathoning' which as well as lots of useful training background has a series of training schedules.  The 55-70 miles 18-week schedule is the moderate one!  Even if you don't like the schedules it's a really good read.

Matchstick Man

achingcalves wrote (see)

Hello MM - you're going to have a full time job keeping this thread running + training. I guess that's the price of livin' the dream 

well I've kept up posting on the sub 3h15 thread whilst going through 2 mara campaigns this year so I'm sure keeping up with this one should be ok.

SBD - If Brighton is your first marathon then please be cautious. The marathon is a cruel mistress and it's rare that a person has a good debut as I've read (Noakes) that it takes any marathon runner about 4-6 marathons before people actually crack the distance. You only have to peruse the sub 3 thread to realise that people take a while to get to their intended goal.

The marathon is 20 miles of hope followed by 6 miles of reality.....

CC2 - Speedy Goth

I love being the exception to a rule  

The marathon is a cruel mistress and it's rare that a person has a good debut as I've read (Noakes) that it takes any marathon runner about 4-6 marathons before people actually crack the distance.

1st marathon goal sub 3.30. Actual time 3.28.38, a negative split and nothing left on the road.

You can get it right, you just have to learn from the mistakes of others rather than your own and pick your goal time wisely. Mine was challenging but not impossible.

I'll stop being smug now

Sue C

Yes - I was very proud of my first marathon, having only been running for 6 months, managed a Mike Gratton Schedule of Death, paced it (almost) perfectly, couldn't have run any faster on the day or trained harder (at the time) and was over the moon with 3.32.37. It is the marathon I am most proud of and my subsequent ones I could/should have performed better but haven't and have left me feeling disappointed rather than proud. Still - I shall keep on trying!