Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Fried egg sandwich and baked beans after my six miler :smile: Not sure how you could cope after 20M with a bit of dried mango and a protein bar Reg!

    Saw a physio today. The good news is, he is pretty certain in his diagnosis - a number of worn discs, aggravated by driving and patio laying.  The bad news is, he has told me not to run for a week to let it ease off. He's also given me some additional exercises to the ten zillion I already do for all the other niggles :D

    Not sure I can take his advice on the running. Apart from anything else, I need to get to work somehow and, whilst I follow his logic about it feeling OK at the time but will aggravate the discs later, all I know is that when I've run to work, I've felt OK ish all day, but when I've ridden or done any of it in a car, I've been in pain all day!  Maybe skip the long hilly one on Sunday.....

    He actually said cycling was OK, but only in an upright position - better go out and get one of those shopping bikes then!!! He also said swimming was fine, but it's just so dull :smile:
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Oh, and SG - of course you to burn that geezer off - you'd have been letting not only the whole thread down, but yourself if you hadn't :wink:
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
     :D 

    And as ric isn't around let me be thread ars..sorry straight talker...

    Follow that physios advice son! You've had years of issues now and if it's been bad enough to go to a physio you have to then follow his advice.

    Might get you back racing a lot sooner and better 🌷👌
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I had steak and chips, the aforementioned were my substitute for chocolate and biscuits. I’ve gone a few weeks now without it. Not lost any more weight though.

    Sounds like a classic Bus physio summary 😄 
  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    No SG, Bus has worked out that the physio is pulling a stroke and trying to manufacture a way to get him to come back and spend more money on questionable treatment.

    He'd be fine ignoring the so called advice and running, rather than make things worse by sitting in a car. 

    Anyway, isn't it sitting in cars/trains and laying patios which caused all of this? 

    And who knows, by the weekend he could be good for a really hilly LSR.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

    We'll have to leave it to the owner of the problems (ie Bus) to resolve then :)

    I put my back out years back, and I'll always remember the doc advising against much standing, lying and sitting.

    I think that left me with levitating. And at an angle!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    https://charactercounts.org/greatest-quotes-on-character-reputation-and-character-education/

    And from Winston Wolfe to girl, "See that? Respect for one's elders. It's a sign of character" (girl 'I have character) "You are a character, it doesn't mean you have character".

    SG, I rate character, integrity and honesty. Others regard them as mere obstacles in the way of satisfying their base instincts, impulses and appetite.

    The curious thing about running, training, sport and this thread. Is that it reveals character, or lack of.

    For many, it doesn't matter since; if they are clever, they may well be paid well enough in their clever jobs to be able to 'get away with it'. For a while that is.

    Then there's, "Son, the day you ignore all advise, listen to no one but yourself, ignore everyone and anyone who tries to stop you taking the path of your own choices. That day you become a man".   There's millions of guys who believe that. It's a lie.

    Then when they need to take advise, they can't. They can't because doing so will somehow diminish them as the men they think they are. 

    After that we get all sorts of typical bloke reactions such as denial, piss taking, bull-shit and bluster, aggression and high minded indignation. It's all there.

    Just because someone with common sense suggested a better way to do something.

    So, I agree, We'll have to leave it to the owner of the problems (ie Bus) to resolve then 

  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    Woooah!  that got deep quickly!  :)
    i agree with ric, why pay for advice and then not take it?

    or dont take the advice but you dont get to moan to the group if you continue to hurt :)  Either way hope it sorts it self out quickly
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited May 3
    Dean - I was the one who said that! 
    Ric's post seems to be saying ignore the physio as he's trying to con him!

    It's a few posts up the same page!

    But yes, quite - why indeed! 

    But agree - get fixed soon Bus - need you at the occasional race trip like old times. :)
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited May 3
    RicF said:


    The curious thing about running, training, sport and this thread. Is that it reveals character, or lack of.



    What on this thread shows a lack of character out of interest?
    I think a lot of posters on here have proven theirs over a real scale, from battling through injuries, keeping keen years on, winning stuff etc...

    It'd be the easiest thing in the world to just disappear from the thread at the first upset, like a lot have done over the now, 9 years (!) of this thread!
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited May 3
    Kind of thinking the same as me there, SG.

    Raises some questions:

    1. Who on this thread, has a lack of character but a good job?
    2. How does that supposed good job compensate for a lack of character, i.e. what are they getting away with?
    3. Does poor spelling undermine a critical position?
    4. Is it deliberately vague to avoid scrutiny?


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    It's like the time Dean said some on this thread train too hard, and some not hard enough.
    I genuinely didn't know if i was in the "train too hard - for meagre results", or "don't train hard enough - to improve the meagre results" camp

    :D

    Someone from Dashers once said the former...but I had just robbed him accidentally of one of his super fast short segz.

    Obviously I meant to rob it, the accidentally part was I didn't realise it was his as it was a "joint" held job ;)
  • YnnecYnnec ✭✭✭
    As per what SG said:
    RicF said:

    He'd be fine ignoring the so called advice and running, rather than make things worse by sitting in a car. 
     and then:
    RicF said:

    Then when they need to take advise [sic], they can't. They can't because doing so will somehow diminish them as the men they think they are.
    You should've been a politician with a flip-flop like that, Ric.

    Hope you resolve your back-knack issue soon, Bus.
  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:
    Dean - I was the one who said that! 
    Ric's post seems to be saying ignore the physio as he's trying to con him!


    i thought ric was taking the piss...and saying the same as us.  He just got deeeeeeep about it.  hence me referencing him.  You and I just came straight out and said it!

    Interesting what Ric said about character. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited May 3
    Yeah, in my next race, I'll be thinking, heck, if I don't storm this in, Ric will say my character is lacking now  :o

    And I'm pretty sure Ric is very anti physios - preferring to self medicate instead.
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I'm not sure about what Ric is saying to be honest but he's defintely a character :)
  • DeanR7DeanR7 ✭✭✭
    Stevie G said:
    It's like the time Dean said some on this thread train too hard, and some not hard enough.
    I genuinely didn't know if i was in the "train too hard - for meagre results", or "don't train hard enough - to improve the meagre results" camp

    .
    HA! remember it was you that added the bit about meager results though.   but every club has people who train too hard and others not hard enough.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited May 3
    Right, my next race was today then :)

    Ealing mile - just fancied shoehorning it in. Not especially well fitting, but I wanted a 6th race in 2019 to keep things turning over.

    I wanted to try it in my Hyperions, after the Jan & Feb races in the Vaporfly 4%s, to see as far as possible, if there was a tradeup. (As best as you can do a measure bearing in mind other factors are different)

    Jan & Feb done in 5.03 then, but I'd previously done as quick as 5.00 & 5.01 here in Hyperions, but also a 5.08 once too.  (4.56 & 4.57 at Gosport and Battersea Park before - while also a 5.10 at Gosport the windy year!)

    Anyway, Maidenhead 10 was 2 weeks ago, so I fancied sticking a mile race in, rather than starting the 5k plan just yet.

    Ealing on a day off is comfy - now the parking situation is easy! 
    Ealing from work - is a little more stressy - although this time I did go the quick direction to the M4, rather than be 10mins into the drive and then take another 10mins to where I could have been!

    I'd weasled into work an hour early, having put a 4.5mile easy in very early knockings...
    Setting off at 11.32 ish, I got there for just gone 12 - not too bad - focusing on the cameras, and willy nilly M4 changes from 70 to 60 to 50 to 40 with a second's notice :O
    Finally, about 7 or 8 trips in, I take Pete and the organisers tips to park about 50cm away for free in a side road :D

    No Pete at this one, but I wondered if I'd chatted his ears off too much last time rather than warming up.
    1.5miles in the onion bag, 1 half hearted stride and to the start line and beyond.

    Quite a crowd today, numbers are deffo going up. I just about squeezed onto the far right of the start line, slightly worried about being in line with the little roundabout, and the organiser I hoped was going to move outta dodge sharpish!

    The guy to my left, well in his 40s, looked like Pep Guardiola's more serious brother, who looked not at all impressed by my start line bantz about why on earth do they have a start and finish line 10cm apart, rather than having one line in the middle, or why do they not start the course down the lane to the right, to make the storm round a massive blind bend with a tree blocking vision...usual drill then!

    I get out "quick" (ed - it's all relative!), to make sure the Spaniard doesn't cut me off (Ed - alright son, you're not Dean, this isn't the worlds, and he probably isn't even Spanish), round the bend, and I'm where I've been all but once here before, in the lead, with a massive hoard behind me.

    Flat for 150m, then round a bend, and down slightly for a while.
    I can feel them right on my back. I know a guy who has done a 4.56 or so is here, why isn't he leading? Is he taking it easy? Am I storming it? No idea!

    I can literally feel 2 or 3 peeps right level with me, and I don't think I'm going "that" hard, like I do on the track at times, but I wouldn't want to go any faster....

    I suddenly hope the young girl on the start line in all the gear isn't one of the chasers, but it's all a bit unsure - no point checking the watch, as it always underestimates distance being in a loop in a park, so states a slower time than you're working at.

    There are a number of 100m signs, but I'm pretty sure they don't actually relate to the current route - so are useless... so it's on we go then!

    On the straight before half way, I have one to my left, and two in front, I'm sort of boxed in.
    We can't have this, so I put a slightly monster surge in, to burst clear to the half way marker (if there were one).

    Round the bend, and I wonder if I might go to the left of the tree for once. 
    I don't - right side of the tree as always.

    The little gang have decided they're not letting some lanky gimp in a hi vis vest win this, so at least 3 go past - making me wonder if I'm being passed by the whole field.

    I'm not.

    I still have no idea whether I'm on for a monster, or an average one, so it's just a case of push as hard as feels doable.

    3/4 of the way in, I know I'm at least beating Mr Spaniard.

    Hi vis other guy, the 4.56 guy feels well clear now, but a couple of seconds can feel undoable in a mile.

    To the finishing straight, I clock the...erm... clock. it's just into the 4.40s, will I get close to 5?

    We've bloody been here before haven't we!? :)

    Winner comfortably under 5, the next 2 beat 5 as well, and I'm not sure if there was a 4th guy in there too, or not,

    but either way I get over in 5.07 (if kind), or 5.08 if not.

    So an enjoyable little turnout on the cheap really. Literally, as I finally did the online entry for £3  (doable up until 10am on the day - brilliant).

    Major benefit is not just saving £2 for those tight wads amongst us, but more the instant pick up of the number, rather than wasting 5mins filling ting in.


    What can we take from today?
    Clearly I've not done enough of the top end work since the last time. 

    Probably makes sense that training for a 10 miler isn't the best way to then put a top mile time in :)  Argaubly a 10miler the day before may not have helped, albeit done by 9am in the morning.

    If I do another mile, I'll make sure I've put in at least 2-3 weeks of at least 3-5k paced stuff, as it's just a different game isn't it.

    Were the Vapors worth 4seconds over a mile? Impossible to say - I have to doubt it to be honest. I'd be more likely to think it was along the reasons above really - not doing a 10miler the day before the 5.03s, and probably doing a bit of tastier speedwork - albeit not the top end stuff of the 5.00-5.01 days.

    Still - it is what it is, and the one tradeoff of doing more races, is that you'll get more to lump in the average basket.


    I did notice, that they are doing some summer evening miles at Ealing in July every week!
    7.30 jobs.

    That might be a more sensible way to do Ealing, and ease some of that stress of getting there on a (long!) lunch hour!

    I have found with some of the very short sessions, like 200-300s, that I'm a little off the pace of the last couple of years - so once I've got the Marlow 5 done next weekend, it's quick smart into a short focus - ease the mileage down a bit - but the quality up job


    As I left to do my 1mile cool down, I heard some girl had broken 6mins.
    Some guy was telling her mum that it's a fast course to set pbs.

    Now it's all relative, but as we always say, you're not going to get much faster than Gosport mile / Battersea Park ones. This one has a blind sharp bend 5metres in, and the second half has a slight incline :D

    But anyway, if she's pb-ing here, it's promising for elsewhere :)


  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    I was taking the piss.

    I've lost interest in the rest.



  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    edited May 3
    Blimey - that was a day to be busy at work and miss!

    Ric - talking of advice, I feel I must advise that when giving advice it is advisable to use the right word. But then I am a pedant (and one with no character apparently!) :smiley: (sorry, "pisstaking")

    I am taking the physio's advice. Mainly.  But that doesn't mean I have to submit myself entirely to his will or accept all of his conclusions.  As the owner of the body in question I am allowed to have some input.  There are a number of reasons for my rationale:

    1) He was chosen because he was within easy walking distance of my house. He is not a specialist sports physio, and whilst his diagnostic approach seemed excellent, and he clearly understands muscular-skeletal issues, I did not get the impression that he had a particular understanding of endurance sports like running. Unlike previous specialist physios I've seen, he didn't ask about my weekly mileage or terrain. I am, therefore, working on the assumption (and it may well be wrong) that he may not fully appreciate the difference between a long run or hard session, and an easy, relatively short run, to someone who's body is accustomed to running well over two thousand miles a year. (sorry, not sure if this is the "bluster" or "high-minded indignation"

    2) So far, and after two weeks, my back has generally felt better after running than before and has been entirely comfortable whilst running - though as I said in my original email, I accept that there may be a delayed soreness from this.

    3) Although I can, and do, occasionally work at home, mostly I need to get to the office to my "well-paid, clever job" (that also gives me health insurance so I don't have to pay for the physio. Presumably it's because they want me to get better quickly so I can continue to hide my lack of character by being good at my job). An easy run has proven to be the lesser of four evils to get to the train - I can't drive, even a lift has been painful, cycling has also proved painful and walking to the station would take 2.5 hours!

    4) I know how my body feels and am happy to take a step back when I feel I need to - as it happens, I have been a bit sore after running this morning, so I won't run tomorrow. That said, it was still less sore than yesterday morning, when I neither ran nor travelled, but is sorer than yesterday afternoon - after I'd ran! (this, of course, could be the "denial" aspect) but I'm also trying to reduce the number of painkillers having been taking them for ten days, so that could be a factor (apologies again, as that might be straying into common-sense)

    Not sure why any of this winds you up and makes you borderline apoplectic Ric, but 'twas ever so....and sorry, couldn't find a way of including the bull-sit or aggression for the full house I'm afraid. 

    Oh and Dean - sorry - I promise not to moan if I continue to run (but will post updates on progress in a more positive way :wink:)

    Nice work on the mile SG - cracking report as usual and even without the supposed VF advantage its still much quicker than my mile PB, and that was on a track :smile:


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭

     :D Bus,  our oldest son Ric does have a real knack of wording his philosophising in a way that certainly can be read as a colossal dig at times. Not often such a monumental retort is constructed like that though :*


    Ealing mile results out quickly. 4th in the end, rounded up to 5.08 - to equal my slowest there :)

    The winner did 4.56, but 2nd and 3rd weren't under 5 as I'd wrongly said, but were 5.03/5.04. It really shows how long that straight is, as I was sure they were getting under 5 from my view - but well off!

    And looking back in Jan & March, I'd done a 10 the day before, solo in Jan and doubles in March. However, I hadn't run in the morning either of those days, so maybe that made a bit of an effect.


    Who knows - once more unto the bridge we go!

  • StevieWhStevieWh ✭✭✭
    Great report SG! What was the vaporfly verdict?
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭
    edited May 3

    That is the big question isn't it! There's definitely something to them, but most people seem to suggest it's for longer distances, and you don't see much from the short stuff.

    While 2x 5.03 in the Vapors versus 5.08 in Hyperions looks a big difference, it is still a small sample, over 4months.

    I'd like to have another few goes in the Hyperions first, after a different build up.

    I dare say so much can affect such a short race - anything from how you feel on the day, to the build up, to the race you get into. Plus running already the same day this time, versus not the other times. Probably the classic "shoehorned" in race, which is never going to be a maximal job.


  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭
    Not sure why any of this winds you up and makes you borderline apoplectic Ric, but 'twas ever so....and sorry, couldn't find a way of including the bull-sit or aggression for the full house I'm afraid.

    Stevie G said:
     :D 

    And as ric isn't around let me be thread ars..sorry straight talker...

    Follow that physios advice son! You've had years of issues now and if it's been bad enough to go to a physio you have to then follow his advice.

    Might get you back racing a lot sooner and better 🌷👌
    That!


  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Yes, but there's a world of difference between the good-natured tone and well-meaning intention of SG's post and your own oblique, yet frankly hostile referencing and pseudo-philosophising...
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited May 4
    Time to move on from the latest Ric-gate I reckon.

    I have now put 8 solid weeks together at 40 miles per week and I have a low-key race on the horizon so I wanted to dabble with a bit of speedwork. This is more of a test rather than a workout designed to make fitness gains. Thought about 2 mins on and 2 mins off as I still have that 20 miler in the legs. Trouble is I looked at my watch and I'd already done 2:30 so just ran until the pavement ran out, which was 5 minutes. Turned around did 2 minutes easy then a mile effort. First one came out at 5:36 pace and the mile was 5:33. Felt really good on the breathing front, legs a bit heavy though. Started a third rep but it would have been a struggle so didn't bother.




  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭


    That's some classic freestyling there!

    If that was a day after the 20, no wonder it felt plenty, but a tidy mile thrown in. As I found yesterday, you certainly need to work on the shorter stuff to get it stronger!


    Joined the Handy Cross lot last night at Marlow track for a few mins, as they've finally sorted ownership, after a year or so! Therefore, I'm fully paid up for a year on the track now :)

    Did for a second wonder about joining their 5k time trial, but after 2 runs with 1 being a race the same day, that thought didn't last long!


    Last Wycombe game of the season today, a completely awkward 5.30pm kick off job...so best get going.

    To stay up, we need to not see Plymouth win, us lose, and a 14 goal turnaround.... so we "should" be safe.

    But the manager is clearly off, after about 6.5-7 years, so might be a love in post match

  • Joe Blogs-BRJoe Blogs-BR ✭✭✭
     Bus - you crack on mate, rationale sounds good, it’s your life. Good on ya.

    SG - nice racing at Ealing, enjoy the game today, I’m just hoping Southend go down.

    Nice freestyle session Reg. how’s the healthy eating going?

    Went to Fulham parkrun this morning and ran 17:40, definitely more of a tempo effort than flat out. Got a sprint triathlon on Monday, if the legs still aren’t right I’ll just enjoy it and see what happens.

    Finished my London blog if you gang want a read;

    https://spragginsblog.wordpress.com/2019/05/04/london-marathon-28-04-2019/
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    edited May 4
    Healthy eating is going well Joe, had a piece of cake today but it's a cake I made.
    Nice PR, I was going to do a sprint Tri on Monday, to defend my title but the rib makes me think the swim portion isn't a good idea.
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Homemade cake has NO calories or health disbenefits - that's a true fact :smile:  Quick mile and almost mile btw...

    SG - don't feel sad he's off. He did good,  but it's the only time you should be glad to see the back of his terrible hairstyle!

    Cheers Joe! Enjoyed the blog by the way - except the close-ups on the budgie smugglers :wink:

    Just a walk into town and back for me today as a substitute for proper exercise - all fairly neutral :neutral: Hardly really justifies the belgian beer and dominos I'm having mind :blush:
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