The Middle Ground

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  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Good advice there DT for JGav! Wondering if there is any day that you can finish work relatively early, and possibly incorporate the long run within a commute to home. It is a case of juggling things of course but it is worth remembering the basics: I believe that you need at least 5 x 20 milers (32k) backed up with at least as many MLRs of 15 to 16 miles (21 to 24k). That could commit you to just 5 very long runs with the rest being double days...but the problem may well be fitting in the MLRs as well, which are just as important many say. Wonder what others think!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    If you could do that, you could then mlr on a sunday and even at 15m it's 2 hours out. I find that I can do 15 miles without any real damage. My body seems to start deteriorating and needing lengthier recovery for each mile after 15, at a much more disproportionate rate than the first 15m.

    I think my longest mlr is 14 miles. I normally sit at 12-14m for the peak 10 weeks training. With that though, i'd be doing another 13-14m run each week with a 10m tempo what with wu and cd.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Hmm consensus seems to be that splitting the long run doesn't add as much value. 

    Maybe I'll plan on doing a slow commute home (14 miles) drop stuff off before doing the last 6 or 7 miles.  Should be done before 8pm and ready to eat the fridge and collapse onto the sofa.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Yes, jgav, if you can work it into commute then it is the most efficient way of doing long run. 

    Ive done 2 runs sometimes if say i have an 8m easy to do but cant find a block of time to run 8m so i might do 5 over lunch and 3 after work. Or if ive done a session over lunch i have come home and added 3m recovery. I havent needed to do either in a while. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    JGav: MLR of 14 miles is fine! Do you need to run with anything on a commute apart from.keys, phone and a bit of change?
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    alehouse said:
    JGav: MLR of 14 miles is fine! Do you need to run with anything on a commute apart from.keys, phone and a bit of change?
    Previously I have run with just a tiny rucksack with keys, cards and phone.  new job in 2 weeks so hope that I can do the same.  

    FYI - I agree that 14 for MLR is fine but won't be long enough if that's going to be my longest of the week.  Then I can keep Sundays to a medium run of 10-14miles and hopefully keep it more family friendly.  

    I'm becoming aware that as the Mrs is back training for the HM distance and I'm training for the full we are both out running a lot and the kids do notice.  Don't want them to feel like they're being ignored.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    edited June 17

    Just to be clear, I have assumed that Alehouse is meaning to do mlrs to supplement the weekly long run as opposed to being your long runs when you aren't doing a 20.

    As Alehouse says, you wont do 20 every week. I did 6 this time around with 2 x 22. I also did quite a few 17-18m long runs and also about 50% mixed pace long runs, though on those weeks I wouldn't do the weekly big tempo.

    Yes the kids will notice for sure. It's a bit easier now mine are a bit older and spend a lot of time at their own clubs etc in any event.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    To your 5x20mile runs.  I just don't have time in my plan to run that many if I'm going to do them on alternate weeks.  

    I have approximately (in kms) a progression from 
    26
    28
    28
    32 (then start taper 3 full weeks out from race)
    26 (1st taper week)
    18 (2nd taper week)
    ?? (race week)

    I'm assuming I'll back these up with MLRs around 18-20km and the alternate weeks I'll also run 18-20km.

    This is all based on a relatively conservative build from 40km (25 miles) per week to a peak of 72km (45 miles)
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Afternoon all!

    Not been posting for a while due to a combo of niggles, work, holiday and general CBA attitude meaning I haven’t run much in 2 months and not at all for the last 2 weeks!

    Planning to get back into it a little this week, all being well!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Consistent consistency please AD!

    JGav: any races planned before Bournemouth?
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    alehouse said:
    Consistent consistency please AD!

    JGav: any races planned before Bournemouth?
    Does a 10k this Sunday count? Want to find a half a few weeks out but not signed up to anything yet.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    11k lunch run at somewhere between tempo and threshold, 4.38m/km/7.27mm.  HR was 165 average.  Nearly back to where I was last summer, I did the same run in September at 164bpm and was 4.29m/km.  Given lack of winter training I'm glad it's moving in the right direction. 17 weeks now.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Sounds reasonable jgav. with 17 weeks to go, im not clear as to why you only have time for 1 long long run? A p and d 18 week sch for example would net you 5. 

    Andrew, shame on the lack of running. It's those cba times when it's so important just to get out even for 2 easy miles just to keep things ticking over. 

    5 mile progression last night from very easy to top end easy. 10 x 1k planned tonight. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    AD: agree with DT! I'm a great believer in 15 to 20 minutes being far better than nothing!

    JGav: where is your longest run up to at present? Important not to build too quickly, of course! Do you have a time in mind for Bournemouth?
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    So this is my weekly plan, as I said conservative build.  I can adjust as necessary but this is the skeleton I'm working from.  There's a bit of jiggery pokery during August to work it around a 10 day holiday and have a recovery week during.  My thoughts were to do a 20 miler week starting 26/08 and 09/09.

    Week starting Weekly Target
    13/05/2019 40
    20/05/2019 28
    27/05/2019 40
    03/06/2019 20
    10/06/2019 48
    17/06/2019 34
    24/06/2019 48
    01/07/2019 24
    08/07/2019 56
    15/07/2019 40
    22/07/2019 40
    29/07/2019 56
    05/08/2019 28
    12/08/2019 64
    19/08/2019 45
    26/08/2019 64
    02/09/2019 32
    09/09/2019 72
    16/09/2019 50
    23/09/2019 45
    30/09/2019 36


  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Are these miles or kms?
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    edited June 20
    DT19 said:
    Are these miles or kms?
    km

    it goes set weekly mileage and then do 4 weeks at the following; 100% 70% 100% 50% 

    Then increase 5 miles before starting the next 4 week block.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    And what's currently the longest you've run in recent weeks? 
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    DT19 said:
    And what's currently the longest you've run in recent weeks? 


    17km
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    so that is 10.5 ish miles.

    Setting aside the unknown quantities such your time and other commitments I think you could get a 20 in on 12th and 26th August then 09th and 16th Sept. 16th sept is 3 weeks to the day from the mara which is when almost any schedule will have the last very long run.

    I think you will get more out of the race if you have done more 20s than 2 and I think that is realistic progression from where you are now and the time still available.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    edited June 20
    Hmm - maybe I could have a slightly more aggressive build now and remove a 70% week.  That would get my weekly distance up quicker and allow more running.

    I'd already planned 
    week starting
    29/07 - 26
    05/08 - abroad, cut back week
    12/08 - 29
    19/08 - 16
    26/08 - 32
    02/09 - 16
    09/09 - 32
    16/09 - 26
    23/09 - 18
    30/09 - race

    So although not all 20 milers - there are still 5 runs over 26k (16 miles).  Should I still adjust it to add in an extra 20 miler?  Just rejigging my spreadsheet to see what it would look like.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Updated more aggressive plan, I've left in the intended long runs.  It would mean an extra 75k over the next 14 weeks.

    Week starting Weekly Target Saturday Sunday
    13/05/2019 40
    20/05/2019 28
    27/05/2019 40 15
    03/06/2019 20
    10/06/2019 48 20
    17/06/2019 34 10k race
    24/06/2019 56 25
    01/07/2019 40
    08/07/2019 56 28
    15/07/2019 28Family day
    22/07/2019 64 28
    29/07/2019 64 28    Flights
    05/08/2019 32    
    12/08/2019 50 32
    19/08/2019 72
    26/08/2019 72 32
    02/09/2019 50
    09/09/2019 72 32
    16/09/2019 50 26
    23/09/2019 35 18
    30/09/2019 Race week RACE
    Total 951
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    yes that looks better.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    DT19 said:

    yes that looks better.
    I guess I'm just a little scared of the big (72k/45m) weeks and 3 in 4 of themjust before taper.  Oh well I guess that's what I signed up to with a marathon  :#
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    That's when you want your peak cycle to be. You will have built up slowly to be able to accommodate that.

    The only way to safely handle big mileage is to run everything that isn't a session at the lower end of your easy paces. I am usually 8.15-8.45mm for those when I am running 50 plus mpw.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    DT19 said:

    That's when you want your peak cycle to be. You will have built up slowly to be able to accommodate that.

    The only way to safely handle big mileage is to run everything that isn't a session at the lower end of your easy paces. I am usually 8.15-8.45mm for those when I am running 50 plus mpw.

    I'm quite good at and enjoy plodding along at 5.20 to 5.40 pace (8.35 - 9.07) any slower and my form starts to deteriorate.  I think that's about right for me.  I'll also do some MP work within some of the longer runs and do some MWL (up to HM distance) as backup.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Well. My first run out in 20 days (!) last night. Just 3 miles nice and easy.

    First 0.5 miles felt like I’d never run before, but I then got into an ok rhythm for the rest of it. 8.28 average pace which sounds about right, although the effort was probably above easy if I’m being honest.

    Will try similar again tonight.
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    10k done - 4th in 43.04 the podium just ran away from me on the second lap.

    Very slow course, with lots of slippery grass, hot and humid.  Not a big serious race but I put it together ok and paced mostly ok (bit fast at the start and a bit slow in the middle).  I know I was hurting because I held 190bpm for over 20 mins and peaked at 198, I'm sure that's got to be close to HRmax.  
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Any progress, Andrew?

    Good going jgav. Decent work out all in. 

    15 today which is longest post london run. Gives me about 40 for week.

    i was out drinking friday and woke up in Saturday small hours with my right calf in full on cramp. Calf has been quite tender since. 
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Cheers DT19, nice long run. Building for anything or just enjoying it?

    Only a new weekly total - target of 56k and a 25k long run Sunday morning.  Will be my longest run to date (I think).  I can feel my legs when I rest up in the evening but they're still going strong.  I'm hoping all this consistency pays off.
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