The Middle Ground



  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    Good luck sorting the vertigo Alehouse!

    DT - flying through your sessions again!

    No running for me yet this week. Hoping the knee will have eased enough to allow a short one tomorrow. Ankle still a bit stiff too. Lots to chat to the physio about at my follow up appointment next week.
  • Alehouse - good luck with the vertigo, I hope you're able to get moving again soon. How's the kidney pain? And do you know when might you get an indication of how you're reacting to your treatment?

    AD - bad luck. Although it may feel the same as your other knee issue, it could just be a knock and may clear up pretty quick. It's possible that you're just feeling very sensitised to any issues around that area, though obviously it's sensible to take it easy until it improves!

    DT - solid paces there. How many 20 milers have you got in your prep?

    I imagine if you'd waited longer before getting that diagnosis it could have ended up a whole lot worse?

    And I agree with you, it's interesting how our thoughts interact with both perceived effort and HR. Whether it's excitement, frustration, or any other number of things, it all seems to have some kind of effect.

    Last week ended up being 35km across 4 runs. I find cutback weeks funny. I felt pretty lethargic and tired all week despite my activity levels being way down. So far this week I've covered 15km walking, and 8km running and I'm feeling better than I did at any point last week! I imagine it's somewhat connected to the weather. I'm sure the rest has done me a lot of good, though! 

    It was good to do some strides this morning, now the ice has all disappeared!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Muss, this sunday will be the 2nd. The following week is just 16 following the tt then essentially I have 3 sundays before taper so they will all involve a 20 and beyond.

    Though papers are reporting leaked lockdown exit road map details today and it doesn't look like there'll be any racing until May. I guess if that proves true i'll need to look at plans a bit as on the one hand you could say another 5 weeks means i'll be super prepared but of course there's only so long you can be knocking out 20 milers and 10mile steady tempos for without asking for trouble.

    I never feel the benefit I think and expect to receive when I have a cut back week. That's why I don't have full rest days. My only rest day this year was 01st January and that's because I was too rough!

    Out later on for an easy 12.

  • Well fingers crossed for you. 

    4x1km steady this morning, off 90s jog. Came out at 4:17, 4:44, 4:34, 4:34. The first I started a little hot, but it was also downhill (-28m elevation), and the others were all slight uphills. Pretty pleased how those came out as I wasn't obsessing over pace and barely looked at my watch, I was just going by feel - it was windy out and the loop for reps 2-4 was gently rolling. Threw in a sharpish effort up a fairly nasty hill before my cooldown.  11km in total, with 150m of climb. 

    It felt good doing those reps - cruisy and controlled, very comfortable and smooth. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Miss: kidney pain gone. Will be months or years before I know whether the procedure worked. Last time it worked for over seven years before the cancer unexpectedly reappeared.
    Re today's session, will this be a regular thing?

    I don't like rest days either, DT! Perfect day for running again, but no chance of even a walk.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    edited February 17
    I'm glad the pain is better, but sorry to hear you'll be getting more rest than you'd like!

    I've been feeling fitter and stronger recently, so I thought I'd do a bit more high end aerobic stuff in the next few weeks, but it will be at most once per week. Today ended up being on the faster side of what I'd envisaged, but we'll see how I pull up!

    My general plan was to hang around the 45-50km mark, add a bit of steady running, and then once I've given that a chance to settle, add some fartlek type runs with plenty of recovery time. And then, by late Spring/summer I'm aiming to do some harder training in the lead up to (hopefully!) doing a half marathon. 

  • Two nice easy 7km runs Thursday and today. Thursday was the lowest average (139) and max (147) I think I've ever seen, which makes it probably the first genuine recovery run I've ever done. Today was a little bit more effort, with hills involved too, but still very relaxed at average HR of 146. It's definitely been feeling more like spring - most mornings the past week I've really noticed the smell of blossoms etc., and this morning was balmy and comfortable t shirt weather.

    I'm looking at flats with my girlfriend at the moment - yesterday's rest day ended up involving 10 miles of walking! It was all spread out over the whole afternoon, so not too taxing.
  • Sorry for the triple post!

    Hope you're feeling better Alehouse? 

    And AD, how is the knee/ankle faring?

    I had a 15-16km flat run planned for today. A wrong turn from my carefully measured route and a casual approach to navigation from that point onwards resulted in a 19.5km run with about 200m of climbing involved. An average HR of 136 overall, so hopefully the gentleness of it will balance out some of the effects of the unexpected jump in mileage. 

    52km for the week.
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Looks like a decent week, Muss! Including a decent long run! 
    Not a lot to report: vertigo stopping me doing much at all. A couple of walks of about 600 metres which to be honest were too much!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Sounds like a decent week there, Muss. Will set you up nicely to build upon. That's why I don't venture too far off certain core loops for my longer runs, fear of turning 20 into 23!

    Sorry to hear you are still struggling, Alehouse. Anything else the Drs can try to ease the situation?

    12M wed, 5m recovery Thursday then a decent session of 9m Friday alternating between 6.30s and 6.00s, average pace was 6.21. Easy 20 yesterday gave me 62m for the week. A lighter week this week as I taper slightly into Fridays TT.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    All sounds good with you, also, DT! Take it easy until Friday! Hope the weather is set fair, not least no wind. 

    Just spoken with a GP. Meds are going to be changed. Vertigo is probably a bi-product of something else, probably a viral infection of some sort. She said it is often four to six weeks before a full recovery. I am hoping for much shorter!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    Afternoon all!

    Alehouse - let's hope the GP can get you sorted quickly!

    DT - monster week. Good luck for the TT on Friday.

    Muss - nice week. Sounds like you've got the mileage up to a good level with largely easy running, which should set you up nicely for adding some sessions over the coming weeks. Hope the flat hunting went well too.

    Not much going on here - I did a couple of short runs last week, but the knee and ankle were both complaining again by the weekend, so I haven't run since Friday. They both feel considerably better today, but as I have a physio appointment tomorrow I think I'll rest it again today and then see what the physio has to say.

    I can't believe that just 2 years ago I was probably the fittest I've been, running PBs, and now I can hardly turn out 10 miles a week. It feels like I'm unlikely to ever get back to running consistently again. Hopefully the physio can pull something out of the bag!
  • Alehouse - I'm sure the short walks will be doing you good. I hope you're not getting too bored! 

    AD - bad luck. Did you talk about footwear with your physio? Not just running shoes - for day to day wear it's important to be wearing shoes that allow your feet to do work, but also give you arch support if necessary. 

    DT - great week, and exciting to be giving the 10k a crack. 

    I have gone through phases of doing my long runs on small loops, but I find it so much nicer psychologically doing one big loop, or at least an out and back. I guess it's also a question of getting more tried and tested loops in the repertoire!

    23km on the bike today, as my legs felt great after yesterday's long run. It was all nice and cruisy until the climb at the end - which feels fine to run up, but not so much on the bike.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    AD- How did physio go?

    Alehouse, hope things improve sooner than that for you.

    Muss, I have one big 15m loop that I use as my core than pull in different bits from different loops I have elsewhere to feed into that to make up additional miles until 22 when I need to pull in everything!

    Still waiting to hear if Dorney will be on for certain. Obviously the Government have said organised sports can take place from 29th March and the organisers believe that means it can happen, however they have to wait on England Athletics to talk with sport England as it maybe a race of this nature isn't classed a organised sport but more an 'event' and so cannot take place until after 12th April. On a positive, the organisers have a reserve date of 24th April and there's no reason that couldn't happen. An extra 3 weeks training probably wouldn't be the end of the world.

    Onwards as normal though until I hear otherwise. Tune up session yesterday of 10 x 2 mins off 1 min. Easy reduced 9m MLR today and just 4m recovery tomorrow. Conditions Friday lunchtime look perfect.

  • Yes, I'm starting to think more seriously about racing, too. 

    My two favourite options are runthrough's Lee Valley dates (24th April and 29th May) or Wimbledon Half on May 2nd. 24th April maybe sounds too soon - if I started the HM training next week, that would leave 8 weeks before the race, which sounds ok on paper except for the fact that I was hoping for at the very least another two weeks of base building and maybe a 5k TT to see where I am. 29th May leaves another few weeks to do that, but it's two days after my birthday, and I don't trust myself not to take it easy on the booze!

    Lee Valley will be boring, but at least it's flat.
  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    DT - physio appointment went ok. He seemed encouraged by the fact the knee had been feeling better before the bang I took on it 10 days ago, and that I was finding the exercises easier as each week went by. He’s given me some tweaks to make the exercises a bit more challenging too.

    He concluded the ankle pain might be from doing my lunges in bare feet. Logic being I am an over pronator and feel very wobbly on my ankle when I’m performing the lunges - so this might have been putting additional stress through my ankle tendons. The suggestion is that I stick my running shoes and inserts on when doing then from now on.

    I’ve another appointment booked in 4 weeks- if I’m not feeling that I’m making any more progress then it’s going to be an in person appointment for him to look at the area in more detail and perform treatment rather than just exercises.

    Muss - I’ve done a 10k at Lee Valley before. It’s well organised and, as you say, quite flat.

    I have a place booked in a 10k at the beginning of April in St Albans - given my injury status obviously I won’t be running it, so am actually hoping the race is postponed and I get the offer to switch my entry!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    edited February 26
    Well done today, DT (saw the time trial result on the overdone it thread).  Proof, if any were needed, of what progressive consistent consistency leads to. And I would back off for a couple of days!

    Overall that sounds positive, AD! And yes, forget about April. Perhaps a parkrun in late June? 

    I have never found any race route boring, Muss! You rarely notice the scenery! 

    Managed my longest walk yet, about 15 minutes, with a stick in case of emergencies. Gradually getting better but that was long enough!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Thanks, Alehouse, I've seen many a man, arrive on the scene, get to a level, not get any faster and pack it in, in my 10 years so getting my rewards now for the perseverance.

    Muss, when you're in a racing and racing all out, scenary etc is not a consideration. If you are out there for 2.5 hours in a half then maybe it's a factor.

    36.11 today in my TT. Included in that was a 40s 5k pb of 17.51 as well.

    Dorney is 5 weeks tomorrow.....I hope!

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Do you have back up marathons, DT? Doesn't Worcester appeal? 

    Not sure about the parkrun announcement: juniors from 11/4, senior from 5/6. England only.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Dorney has a 24th April reserve date. Worcester, having done the half, is a two lap course and is very hilly. 

    I guess as a last resort it could be used to bag a gfa time. 
  • Congrats DT! I imagine you've done this already, but the VDOT from your TT translates to 1:20:00  on the nose for 13.1 and 2:47:11 over 26.2! 

    Good news about parkrun - I was looking forward to absolutely smashing the first one back, but it will be a week after Lee Valley (I've decided to go with the May date), so I doubt I'll have much left to give at that point.

    I'm glad that you're getting about more alehouse - hopefully it will improve exponentially!

    Some good training for me this week, 7km easy Tuesday and 8km easy yesterday. Wednesday was 4x1km steady again off 90s jog (4:26, 4:24, 4:32, 4:24). I was pretty happy with those splits - I was going entirely off feel and not relying on looking at pace at all.

    Quads feeling a bit knotty and I'm also generally feeling a bit fatigued, so I've taken today off, but it's been good to get out and enjoy some proper sunshine!
  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    DT - fantastic stuff! You must feel on cloud nine. And I suspect you have even more to come in a race situation!

    Alehouse - good to hear you are at least able to get out for a walk again. Onward and upward!

    Muss - a day off never hurts! 

    Yes, maybe a parkrun in June might be a good target for me. Just need to get up and running properly over the coming weeks first.
  • Great day for running here, glorious sunshine and although it did start out feeling quite fresh, it soon warmed up. I did 16km, with 10km very easy, then a little progression for 4km, before a nice cooldown. Squeaked through in 1:28:27 @ 148bpm average HR, so it's good to see that 10 miles easy has come out the right side of 90 mins again. Easy pace is definitely starting to feel less ploddy now - when I'm going around 6min/km or even slower, it's starting to feel more and more relaxed rather than an awkward struggle. Yesterday's funk seems to have disappeared.
  • 8km easy this morning. 49.5km for the week and 182.6km for the month, with 1727m elevation gain. 
  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    Well done Muss- I like it when you reach that point in building running fitness when a particular pace suddenly feels much easier than it had even a few days before!

    I had about 9 days off running at the end of February, but got out for a short one yesterday and don’t feel any ill effects today (so far!). 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Good monthly tally, Muss.

    Good to hear, Andrew.

    I finished feb with 230m, my second highest month ever.

    Session today of 10 x 3 mins off 1 min jog. I covered 6.3m in 39.03 so a sub 39 min 10k in there. Didn't feel too troubling either.

    Still waiting absolute confirmation on Dorney. Apparently UKA are awaiting confirmation from department of culture, media and sport that covid safe racing can resume.

    Alehouse- How are things now? I can't recall if I answered your question re a back up race. Dorney has a reserve date of 24th April which works for me and comes after the next phase of opening so a far greater chance of happening.

  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    edited March 3
    So, saw a Professor of Cardiology yesterday evening! He listened to my heart and I had an ECG. All sound. However blood pressure was most erratic. He is as sure as he can be that the vaccine on top of the general anaesthetic has caused an irritable heart muscle. Would affect hardly anyone else like this you will be pleased to hear! 

    More tests over the next week then see him again next Tuesday. 

    Will be at least Easter before I have fully recovered, from what he said. Running is out of the question of course for several more weeks.

    Overall positive news in that there is a clearer idea of the issue and that the issue appears to be temporary. Could do without it though!

    Hope to walk at least a km later!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    That all sounds frustrating very frustrating Ale, it's a good thing that you seem to have much greater reserves of patience than I do. Is it just a question of rest and being kind to yourself? 

    DT - nice session. Fingers crossed for Dorney.

    Andrew - I hope still no ill effects? I had a similar false start in early December, a few days additional rest did the trick for me. Fingers crossed it's the same story for you.

    Jumped in for a friend's session today - 4x6 mins off of 1 min. It was more zone 3 stuff, similar effort to what I've done the last couple of weeks. I feel I've been getting a lot of benefit from those sessions, and yet they don't really take much out of you.

    I'm going to have a crack at a 5km either over the weekend, or early next week. I'm feeling strong, and it'll be good to have an indicator of current fitness. My May Half Marathon plans have been scuppered by work, so if the 5k TT goes ok, and I recover well, then I'll take that as a sign I'm ready to race in the late April date. It might not be ideal preparation, but hopefully I'm approaching it with a decent base now, and I don't feel I need to add huge workouts or increase the weekly volume much to give it a good go. It'll be a PB whether I match my current best time or not, as I'll be doing it in a race rather than a TT.
  • Andrew_DAndrew_D ✭✭✭
    Keep your spirits up Alehouse! Hopefully it will all be sorted sooner than you think.

    5k TT sounds good Muss- have you got a route you’ve used before or are you planning out a new one? You’ve done a good block of base training now, so it will be interesting to see what your fitness levels are like now. How long ago was it you were injured?

    I still had no ill effects from Monday’s run, so I went out for another little run this evening which all went well. Going to monitor recovery tomorrow and the plan is to keep things light for at least this week and next.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    One day on, one day off seemed to work well for me, fingers crossed it will for you too. I did 5 weeks of that before progressing to 4 runs per week, and eventually 5. I'm sure as much walking as you can manage will also help with active recovery.

    It was 1st November that I first noticed the twinge - if I'd stuck to just easy mileage, I reckon the problem would have resolved itself. But because I carried on with some fairly tough sessions, it just got worse, to the point that I needed to take time off, from mid November. I've learnt quite a bit about myself since then, and this hip issue will probably always be something I have to manage to some degree - but I'm hopeful it's something that's easy to keep on top of.

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