The Middle Ground

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  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muss, I was 35s behind 2nd place, he run mile 1 21s faster than me so did most of the work then. Bizarrely just looked him up on po10 and he's run a 31 min 10k this year and a 70 min half last year. 

    The winner was 26.xx which suggests 2nd place was on a training run but his splits font suggest that. 

    I was happy enough with a trophy to be fair as entry was only £16. I'll add the voucher to my pending birthday haul. 

    Alehouse, yes that 10 day period from Xmas eve to 3rd January  will be low key then we build for Manchester. 
  • Still ticking over here. Just over 30k last week, highest since late October. Probably similar this week. 

    Hope everyone is ok! Enjoy the festivities! But not too much!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Yes I've been cracking on. 10m this morning and decent session yesterday. 

    Jogged round parkrun Saturday at mara pace as a bit of a social in 19.37 having done a big session the day before. 

    Next week will be reduced week in the main as I go away in the second half. 

    Have a good Christmas all. 
  • Hope everyone has a good time over Christmas and New Year!

    Well done on some good weeks alehouse! Hope to hear about a turnout in the spring?

    Well done DT, looking forward to hearing more about this campaign. Is 2:44:xx the goal?

    I've been finding it hard to get much structure with some full on days at work and family plans, but I did get out for a decent half on fresh legs on Tuesday. Last week was only four runs and 44km, this week I'm hoping for 60ish, (provided OH doesn't object to me doing Xmas parkrun!). Hopefully next week I'll be able to get back to a more normal week and fit in a session or two.

    Definitely eating and drinking too much, but I'm lucky that my weight doesn't fluctuate too much. On the plus side, I've had four days in a row of great sleep, and feel very good for it!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Hope everyone is well and having a good break. 

    Muss, did you get to parkrun? 

    Yes target is 2.44 for sure, particularly since I learnt that a sub elite time for Tokyo entry is sub 2.45 us our club record for v45 is 2.46. 

    I've ticked over. Managed 50m last week with two sessions so a largely normal week. This week has been easy miles until today when I decided to do 8m at my normal 160bpm effort. Came out 6.16mm for 161bpm so a decent effort. Pleased with the progression as well with 6.20, 6.20, 6.23 and 6.20 then 6.14, 6.13, 6.06 and 6.10. 

    I realised last week also that 2500m for year was on so 8m easy tomorrow morning before I travel to Devon for 5 days will leave me on 2495m. I need to prep my wife for fact that first morning will have to involve a 5m run and I'm unable to compromise! 
  • Hope you made the 2500, DT! And Devon is good!

    Hope everyone has a great 2022! My target will be 2022. Kilometres.
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Alehouse, went out at 9am for 5m. We are on a park off a main road not far off motorway and no pavements.  Luckily there's a trading estate opposite and it was 1.3m a loop. Short on fun but 3 loops and the run from and back to lodge did the job. 

    I font think I'll bother dragging myself though that again and will take a couple of days rest. 
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    Happy new year all!

    I didn't manage Xmas or NYD Parkruns, but hope to make it to a lot more this year.

    I've taken my foot off the gas a little since my 10km, but I think that's been no bad thing. Looking forward to getting back into the swing of things and getting into half mara shape. 

    Alehouse - you're in a much better position at the start of this year than last, good luck with the 2022!
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    As you say, Muss, no bad thing to take your foot off the gas at times. But consistent consistency needed soon!

    Actually last January went really well with over 50k each week. Ended up being the highest month of the year by far. All went wrong in February!  Hoping for a better year without rushing things!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    A fairly undulating 21.5km to start off the year, about 200m of elevation.

    Time for two new pairs of shoes, too!
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Took yesterday off then had no plans yoday so drove 10 mins today to pick up the River Exe Estuary cycle path send ran 6m out to Exmouth then back to make a 12m giving me 61m for week. Highest since mid September but all bar 8 at mp were just easy. 

    219m for December which is highest December. With once race and 4 sessions it was a largely base running month which I think has done me good. 

    Ready now for what the next 13 weeks to Manchester holds. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Good week of training with 2 big sessions this week. However yesterday my sons footy was called off so they made a last min decision to have a dads and lads mix up game. I normally run a mile from requests to play footy but my son wanted me to play and I thought I'd just ghost about. Problem is I played football all my life until 10 years ago and too an ok level do I'm not sure if my competitive edge crept in or my desire to give a good account of myself, but, about 25 min in I lunged and over extended myself to block a cross and right hammy popped. It's pretty sore too touch now but no bruising or swelling. I'm slowly walking a bit gingerly on it. Hopefully it's just a pull and 57 days I'll be good. 
  • Bad luck DT.

    I know the few times I've played football over the past few years it leaves you sore in all kinds of places - side to side movements, lots of accelerations and decelerations, and unpredictable movements all put their strain on you. 

    Did you manage to block the ball in?

    No bruising or swelling is a good sign.

    A real treat for me to do my long run in glorious sunshine. Another hilly half, this time 250m climbing, and that was concentrated in three pretty steep climbs, rather than rolling throughout. I ended up running the flatter bits too fast, so overall it was a much harder run than I meant it to be with average HR of 160. I've pulled up pretty well, though, and I do think I respond well to this high end easy/steady running. 62km for the week.



  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Muss, yes thankfully the block was successful. Football is a huge force on the body, which I guess is why it's generally the preserve of the under 35s. I am no less fit at 46 than most of the 25 year olds playing every Saturday, however my body just wouldn't be able to survive it week in week out. 

    I've always responded well to that top end aerobic effort, which is why I tend to do a fair bit of work at or around mara pace. 

    Leg is quite sore today. The surrounding soreness is subsiding which makes the actual trauma point much more prominent and easy to find. Still no bruising which is definitely a good sign on severity. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    edited January 10
    Sorry to hear that, DT! Plenty of icing for the first 48 hours! You have brought back memories of playing hockey (for the first time!) in a parents v kids match...and shearing off a piece of my humerus. Not good! Hope you recover quickly!

    Slow start to the year here: although I have run every day it seems to be rather going through the motions at present. Don't think the constant grey, damp, weather helps. No glorious sunshine here, Muss!
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT, I'm sure your son will have loved the fact that you played, and putting your body on the line making a challenge will have earned you kudos with all of the kids! Fingers crossed it's something minor like a fascial tear rather than actual muscle fibers. How is it feeling today?

    Well done with the streak, but hope you take a rest day before it gets too long, alehouse! The sunshine lasted for all of one day...

    Couldn't be bothered with a session this morning so just ran easy. Felt quite sick and HR was high in the first half, and I was on my way back home when something just seemed to click after about 5k. HR suddenly dropped and I started enjoying myself, so extended to 13km in the end.

    Though I do need to start getting some sessions in soon, as Eastbourne half is less than 2 months away, and February is a short month. But with it being a coastal race, there's always the risk of it being windy and horrible, so I may end up treating it as a B race anyway. I've also entered Hackney Half at the end of May, so I've got plenty of time to gain some fitness before that. 
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Alehouse, yes these things are perilous for middle aged men, particularly those of us who keep their bodies on the fine line of peak fitness and breaking. 

    You want to break that run of running cycle ASAP before it becomes something! 

    My wife tested positive yesterday for covid, just has a nasty cold. Rest of us are all negative so far. 

    Funny how that happens, Muss. The body is a strange and unpredictable thing. 

    The leg is improving by the day, still sore but a little less so again today. I've physio on Thursday to work out the early scar tissue. Hoping this is a 7 day ish injury.
  • Hope you stay negative DT. 

    Good session today. 2 lots of 1km, 2km, followed by a final 1km, alternating between 10km and HM effort. 90s jog after the 1s, and 3 mins after the 2s, though I managed to programme those in hours on my watch! So I had to stare the timer in all the recovery jogs. The reps came out as 3:50, 8:09, 3:50, 8:03, 3:50. The 1kms all felt more like 5km effort if I'm honest, but the 2kms came out faster and felt easier than I expected.

    My two preferred workout loops are very muddy in patches at the moment, so I've had to look at other options. It's surprisingly hard to find a flat loop within in 3km of here without traffic or obstacles. Eventually I found a fairly uninspiring 1km loop of a park, but the surface was not ideal today - it's that kind of concrete that felt very greasy and slippy with any dew or moisture, and there were more people to contend with than I'd like. I may have to travel for workouts until spring when my regular spots dry out.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    edited January 16
    Bit of a struggle yesterday at Crystal Palace Parkrun - went out hard with a decent group, and felt some abdominal rumblings early on. Made a decent move to bridge a gap, and at the start of lap 2, going past the toilets, I suddenly realise it's not just that standard lactic stomach feeling. I double back, visit the facilities (in and out in just under a minute, a PB on that segment by all accounts), and rejoin to the amusement of some of the volunteers closeby. Second lap was a bit of a suffer fest, particularly the second time going up the hill. I just didn't have the motivation to press on, and was not convinced my digestive issues were over. Crossed the line in 21:35.

    22km today, another hilly route. These hilly long runs are starting to feel easier, and I'm sure I'll get a lot of benefit from them. The first 12km was pretty much all slightly uphill, with a couple of steeper sections, and there was a real tough incline at about 14km.

    68km for the week. I'll probably have another week of building, before taking an easier week and having a good go at LFoM.


  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    What a nightmare at parkrun, Muss. Always one of my fears. Not easy to work at that intensity and divert energy in dealing with that.

    Otherwise looks like it's going well. 

    Hamstring is recovering. I can't really feel anything when walking or bounding up stairs but equally I know there's something there still do font want to run yet. I had physio Thursday and she assessed it as high end grade 1 strain. Felt a lot better after 45 mins of massage. Saturday I saw my chiropractor as he uses other methods so it compliments physio. Had needling done followed by red light lazer. Woke Sunday with muscle really aching, which was a positive sign as suggests healing. Back with chiropractor Wednesday and Saturday and physio Friday. Given how much I've improved off the two treatments I've had I'm hoping 3 more and the benefit of another full week should see me ready to go. 

    Did 25 min Friday very light on spin bike just to see how it felt Saturday. Some discomfort on the bike but all good afterwards. Did a more moderate effort 40 min yesterday and off there again lunchtime to do something more structured. If I can get some good bike work in this week then I've only missed a week's training (all being well next week) and I can offset that against fact I did really slip from routine at all over Xmas. Did the miles and the sessions. 
  • All sounds positive DT. Will you have any strength work to do as it continues to improve? If so, be careful, I find it very easy to piss off the hamstrings when doing deadlifts and the like.

    6km today, alternating between half marathon and hypothetical "marathon" effort. I based the pace numbers between what comes out of pace calculators from my 10k time, and my goal HM pace, which is a bit softer. So 4:06-4:10 Kms for HM and 4:16-4:27 for marathon. I realise this is somewhat ridiculous as I don't think I could hope to actually achieve that over the marathon distance, but felt plausible enough as a workout. Considering I haven't tried a session like this I planned to take another bit off those effort levels, so was aiming for 4:10-15 HM and 4:25-35 "marathon".

    It came out as 4:34, 4:15, 4:24, 4:12, 4:21, 4:09, feeling comfortable enough. HR was around 165 for the mara sections and low 170s for the half mara, so probably working the right zones. 4.5km warmup and cool down made it a decent run, and the loop I found was decent enough for this kind of effort level. A couple of tight corners that might make faster work a real pain though.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Good session, Muss. That sort of in and out session is a firm favourite with my coach. I do various versions of them throughout each cycle. 

    I've been doing base level hamstring exercises from my physio for last week now. A couple of them  if I rush them and over extend do catch a bit sharp. 

    Things are feeling a bit better day by day and done some good bike work this week. Back to physio tomorrow then provisional plan for a test run Sunday. 
  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Sounds like progress, DT! Hope the test run goes better than the England cricket tests went!

    Seems like a decent block of training, Muss. And I understand that feeling at parkrun!

    Gradually increasing the Kms per week here. Just over 35 last week and expect to exceed that this week. Downside is I am having a problem with my neck: seeing physio shortly and spinal consultant a week today. 
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • I hope the neck problem doesn't turn out to be anything too serious alehouse. I see an osteopath about once every three months. The good ones can take a look at you and tell you straight off where you have any muscle imbalances, and having the realignment/accupuncture work is beneficial too. From what I gather, most neck issues tend to originate from much further down the chain (except for trauma/whiplash etc.).

    DT, good that you can keep up the bike stuff as maintenance cardio. 

    I'm keen to include more of those workouts. They don't take nearly as much out of you as a VO2 or threshold type interval workout in recovery terms, but psychologically it feels like much better preparation for mara or half. Doing something like 6x1km off 90s at a harder effort doesn't inspire confidence you can last the distance in the same way as doing something more continuous and specific. 
  • How's the neck alehouse?

    Crystal Palace Parkrun again yesterday. Leaving out the toilet visit helped me to shave exactly two minutes off, finishing in 19:35, which I was pretty pleased with considering I didn't bury myself, and the hills. I think I could look to get a minute off that on a flatter course. First finisher was Nicholas Torry who is a quality runner. 

    24km today, only a banana for fuel. First 20km very low effort, last four km I was working a little harder but still very pleasant. 5:05min/km for 147bpm average. 

    69km for this week, so three good weeks now. I'll probably cutback to around 50 next week, possibly with a good Parkrun attempt at Dulwich. 


  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    Going well, Muss...with lots more to come, I believe! Hope that you get to Dulwich soon: quick course. In fact, few quicker!  

    40k last week, which in the last 12 months I have only managed twice (although I was over 50k during the first three weeks of January). No "long" run last week but did run 10.2k today with my M76 neighbour. A bit of a struggle today, probably due to the cold and to tiredness. Not sleeping well due to the neck...

    Neck is a long standing issue, Muss. I probably damaged it about twenty years ago when I fell and fractured my shoulder…twice within a couple of years. The first was on the first day of my summer holidays when I played in a parents v children's hockey match, never having played hockey before (ring a bell, DT?). Second time was also on the first day of a half term holiday when I fell off a ladder.
    In 2009 I had to have a procedure: facet joint injections around C5 and C6. Since then I have both been diagnosed with osteoporosis and also fractured my back in two different places, which will not have helped matters, and nor did a whiplash injury in 2011 when someone drove into the back of my car, writing it off. The physio thinks that I may need a repeat of the injections. Will know a little more when I see the spinal consultant on Friday.

    Wonder how AD is doing. 

    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • Alehouse, good going with the 40km. Building from that kind of level is when I find I feel like I'm gaining momentum. When you're around 30km or less pw, being restricted to adding 10% feels like very slow progress, but when you get to 40km or so, you can add a reasonable chunk.

    Sounds like you've had some bad luck with spinal injuries - but fingers crossed you get some reprieve soon. 

    Dulwich is very fast, Alex Yee holds the course record there which is 14:xx. I always find it very cool that top class athletes still come down to parkruns. It's not totally flat though, I think it's about 30m elevation over 5km - which is not much, but I always start to really feel the incline when I do long sessions or tempos there. There are a lot of very fast runners there most days of the week - a couple of times while doing 3:40ish km reps I was absolutely stormed past by groups who seemed to be at marathon effort as they were chatting away.

    In other news, one of my favourite workout loops has just become home to a CAR BOOT SALE! Operating on Wednesday 7am-12:30pm. I have come to like Wednesday workouts as it gives a decent recovery window from the Sunday long run, but looks like I'll have to go elsewhere or move days.
  • mussesseinmussessein ✭✭✭
    edited January 29
    Dulwich Parkrun today. Even on the warmup I was finding it windy - Strava says 24km/h, so it wasn't extremely windy, but I could definitely feel it. Over the line in 18:56, which saw me 43rd out of 537. Feels very good to break 19 on the third attempt!

    (EDIT: I should mention three runners went sub 15!)

    Glad to get a good effort in before I give blood tomorrow. 


  • alehousealehouse ✭✭✭
    edited January 29
    Nice one, Muss! Lots more to come on a decent day as well! 

    Ticking over sensibly here (I hope) and should clock 40k this week again. Neck is being a bit of a pain: saw consultant yesterday and he is sending me for a scan of the whole spine. 

    How's things, DT?  
    Progress is rarely a straight line. There are always bumps in the road, but you can make the choice to keep looking ahead.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Excellent work, Muss. Sounds like a stacked field if sub 19 extended to pretty much top 10%. 

    Whats the neck up to, Alehouse? 

    I've been going very hard on the bike, lots of tempo and interval level work. 

    Started running tentatively. Sunday was 1 min on 1 min off x 15. Hammy was pretty sore during it, like it was being squeezed. Next day was fine and the discomfort was there from first min and didn't worsen. Tuesday was 15 x 90s off 30s walk .  That felt better than Sunday but still discomfort. Yesterday was 9 x 3 min off 1 min walk and felt very good, almost like a niggle in the muscle. Tomorrow is 6 x 5 min off 1 min. 

    Yesterday I had some decent deep tissue work on it and feels better again. All being well the run/walks get to a point by midweek that they lose their benefit so on Thursday there's a straight 6m in there. if that is fine I'd imagine by next Sunday it'll be 10m. Once you can do 10, it's all systems go. 
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