The Middle Ground

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  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    edited January 30
    DT19 said:

    see for me JGav- The long run is the one I would be least likely to swap for a long bike ride. Mainly because to achieve the same effect a 90 minute long run would need to be a good 4 hours on the bike. Also, whilst it may work your aerobic system to the same degree, you are not get the muscular endurance. I think bike work is great for recovery and higher end cv and intervals.

    But you are right in that you don't need to be running the same mileage as Andrew as you have other activities in the mix.

    I can't get both a long run and a long ride done each week with family commitments.  My plan is to alternate them with the occasional medium then long brick nearer the A race.  The running is only HM distance which I've raced as a standalone before.  The hard part is doing it at the end of an already long session, hence the bricks.

    I also get most of my volume from running compared to relatively limited bike and swim.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    ticking along here. 2 runs this week and 14 miles. My highest weekly total this year is 20 so far and I'm hoping to pass that number with an Easy run tomorrow. 

    I'll have to do some faster stuff eventually I guess!
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Same here really, ticking along during a cutback week. Planning a tempo run tonight, 3 miles at about 7.20m/m pace.

    Need to get around to entering a couple of 10ks in April/May. Will plan to do a parkrun in a couple of weeks too.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Did a good session yesterday.  4 min at 10k pace then 1 min all out - 3 times over.  4min blocks came out at 4m/km and the 1 mins was closer to 3.30m/km.  Short recoveries.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    7 mile long run today to finish off the cutback week (17 miles this week). Back to it this week.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Good session, jgav. I'm keen to see you at least do a parkrun very soon as your training suggests big gains.

    Good easy week, Andrew.

    My first sort of proper weeks training this week with 39 miles following 12 today. Nothing faster than 7.50 pace so nice and low and aerobic. 
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    DT19 said:
    Good session, jgav. I'm keen to see you at least do a parkrun very soon as your training suggests big gains.

    Good easy week, Andrew.

    My first sort of proper weeks training this week with 39 miles following 12 today. Nothing faster than 7.50 pace so nice and low and aerobic. 
    That's a huge improvement on where you were @DT19 keep those paces easy until you are sure you're all clear.

    As for Parkrun, I really should do one soon.  I could also try a 5k TT at the track one evening, though tempted to wait until the evenings are lighter.  Not long now!
  • Dr.DanDr.Dan ✭✭✭
    Only read back a couple of pages, so not up to speed ... but looks like DT has dodged the injury bullet and JGav & Andrew are ticking along nicely.

    I'm just checking in to report on my first race of 2018 - a 10K in 44:35 (last year was 41:19 - and the course was long on that occasion too!). So not great but then again my total mileage between 19th Nov and 4th Feb had been 20 miles!! I needed to run yesterday to secure 3rd spot in our league table (last race) ... thought my foot was OK but in fact this morning it's a bit tender, so not out of the woods yet.

    As I have basically written off the first half of the year now, I have entered May's Tour de Yorkshire long route sportive (80 miles & 2000m climbing). The idea it it will motivate me to crack on with the bike training. It's WAY WAY WAY beyond anything I have done before on a bike - I am just a commuter who does an annual triathlon. I need to plan. And fast.

    Also doing the ITU (Leeds) standard/Olympic triathlon in June ...and the Yorkshire marathon in October.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Dr Dan, good to hear from you. So your time out has cost you roughly 30 seconds per mile then? It's probably tender because you raced on it as opposed to just running slowly. Perhaps some easy running might assist it?

    Sounds exciting re the bike events. Never been inclined to try one myself as my biking is spin or commuting in summer.

    My leg feels very good today which was a surprise when I woke up given the previous 4 days I have pushed it. Thinking later this week of doing some sort of mp session as this will give me a very good idea of what my current fitness is. I'll have lots of identical sessions to compare over 2 years if I simply do my staple 5 at mp over lunchtime.

    Jgav, yes once you are into February there is cause for some excitement in terms of daylight hours and it improves quite a lot week on week. I think by the end of Feb it is reasonably light until gone 6pm.

  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    11.5k at lunchtime.  First 10 at tempo then a last bit approaching threshold.  Came out at 4.35m/km average (7.22mm for the old skool)
  • JGavJGav ✭✭✭
    Recovery run today - 3 miles at 9mm.  Legs feeling a bit sore today so might take tomorrow to do cycling rather than run again.  Might be due to the sports massage yesterday afternoon, normally takes 48 hours afterwards to settle down again.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I decided to have a crack at a session of sorts so did 5 miles at mp. The reason being is that this is such a staple run for me over the last two years I had a lot of data available to gauge fitness loss. With these sessions I aim to target 160 bpm average. Today came out smack on for 6.39mm.Analysing that, certainly at that intensity my fitness loss is nil-negligible. I should though imagine that my endurance loss will be higher.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Sounds promising DT. You shouldn’t have lost much with just a couple of weeks off anyway, but must be reassuring for a session to reaffirm that.

    I did a tempo session tonight, 3 miles within a 5 mile continuous run. Tempo miles came in at 7.17, 7.16 and 7.11 (I allowed the last one to drift a little faster toward the end).

    So, 21.44 for 3 miles. At that effort level, with a small kick in the last half a mile I’d have completed 5k in around 22 mins. So what should I be targeting at the parkrun next week? Answers in a postcard.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    what's your pb and last parkrun time, Andrew?
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    PB is 20.42 in Sept '15.

    Last parkrun was 21.44 in Oct '17, and last race was 44.52 for 10k in Nov '17.

    I'm thinking pace for around 21.30 and see how it feels?

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    yes that seems like a reasonable idea.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    The next thing is to decide which parkrun I do. There's a chance that wife and toddler might come along again to 'watch' in which case they will want the most local course which has decent parking and is a short walk to the town centre for a post-run breakfast, but is a grass course and will be pretty boggy at this time of year, whereas I would go for one a bit farther afield which is on paths and should be quicker but is in the middle of nowhere ....

    Easy 5 miler planned for after work today, will need to wrap up again by the looks of it.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Sometimes, Andrew, in order to achieve your best in running you have to put you first!
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Yes, DT you are right. Raised the subject last night and my wife was happy for me to go off and do this one where I want to and they’ll wait until the summer for coming to the local one again.

    Intervals tonight - Daniels plan said 1200m intervals off 3 min jogged recoveries. Had to choose between 3 reps or just 2 (any more would make the overall session too long for the time I have available, and also too hard at this stage of training). Decided on just 2 reps this time. Aimed for pace between 6.30 and 6.40m/m and they came out at 6.37 and 6.33. Think if I can work up to doing 4 reps at that pace, then I should be able to run 6.45 pace for a whole 5k, which would put me around the pb mark.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Yes not much fun for them this time of year. I think to get best from a parkrun you have to treat it like a proper race you've paid for arc.

    4 x 800 last night. Not worked at that efgort for a while and it showed. came in around 2.53 a rep. Wasn't maximal but late November that session came in 2.43, albeit with a bit longer recovery.

    Long run this morning of 15, as I'm out at the rugby club from 2pm drinking. Felt comfortable but lack of endurance apparent from 11. Hoping to do a recovery run tomorrow to push weeks mileage over 40. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Long run today. 7.5 miles this morning. Was my longest run for over a year and brought weekly miles to 22, which is also one of my highest for some months. 

    Aerobically it it felt great, legs were ok but a little sore in last mile or so. Average pace was around 8.45m/m which is much quicker than usual too. Amazed it felt that relaxed for that distance and pace! Probably one of my best ever long runs.

    Rest day tomorrow.
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Well done, Andrew. Great when things feel that good. Probably means you've had a little fitness nudge. 

    I did 5 on the treadmill this morning at about 8.45 pace. Feeling ready now to have a good crack at things. Definite parkrun potential next Saturday and Bath half 3 weeks today. 
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Yes, that was the thought I had. Fingers crossed it translates into a decent parkrun on Saturday and I can then assess whether to tweak training paces at all.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Enjoyed my tempo session this evening (despite the constant drizzle throughout). 3.5 miles within a 5.5 mile run.

    Was targeting something around 7.20 pace again, and managed 7.19; 7.19 (including nearly being taken out by a man walking a scrawny little dog!); 7.18 and 7.06 pace for the last half a mile.

    Felt good and the pace of the last half a mile in particular gives me confidence to attack the parkrun at 7s pace in the first 2 miles and see where it takes me.

    Daughter has a cold and a bad cough and is struggling to sleep, so could be a long night I fear .....
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Andrew, yes I think you should definitely be targeting 7mm at parkrun.

    Hope the night went well!!

    I did an easy 10 miler last night at 8.09mm. Gym day today before a faster session tomorrow.

  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭

    Only woken up about 6 times, so feeling a bit knackered today!

    Rest day today, then easy running tomorrow and Friday planned before parkrun.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Hope things are a bit better now, Andrew?

    8 with 5 at 160bpm/mp yesterday. Wasn't really feeling it as I had, had a late night Wednesday and a few drinks and there was some pretty stiff headwind around the racecourse. Came in 6.42mm with a 6.31 last mile just because I had the drift left in bpm.

    Will do a recovery 5 with strides today before a parkrun tomorrow.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    Recovery and strides went well. Just need to hope that something unanticipated doesnt happen tonight as it has the last 4 times ive tried to get to parkrun. I should be OK as the kids went for mass disturbance last night so should be flat out tonight.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    Good luck DT. We still have a snotty mess here, so a disrupted night seems a certainty again!

    Did 3 slow miles this afternoon before parkrun in the morning.
  • AndrewDAndrewD ✭✭✭
    21:35 on the watch, on a course which measured 3.17 miles (so more than just a Garmin margin of error long) which was frustrating as I’d paced the first 3 miles quite well in 6:49, 6:58 and 6:50. So if the course had been accurate I’d have finished around 21:20. Oh well.
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