Sub 3h15



  • Great to see some more new faces. Welcome Jane, Pipes and Neil. Busy weekend on the thread  I see!

    Good luck Speedy with the racing,  sorry I mean pacing.

    I really enjoyed my 12 miler yesterday morning. Aimed for MP+30% for first 4 miles and was somehwere around +25%. MP+20% for next four and was around +15%. Last four +10% was just a fraction under. So 12 miles in 1:43, avg 8:35m/m. Total for week 30.2 miles.

    Enjoy your LSRs today, guys. (Bit frosty round here this morning image ).

  • Pipes - Sounds like time on feet is one of the key areas and like you said the fact that you hadn't done them with MP sections meant you could do the shorter quality speedwork without the heavy legs. I think it shows that the slow runs slow and the fast runs fast arguement it starting to rub off on me. I'm trying to tweak my schedule at the moment, so i'm going to try seom of these ideas out this time round.
  • Frosty out there this morning and a spot of ice in places, but otherwise pretty much back to normal.

    20.5 miles for me this morning - an out and back route along the North Downs Way so a decent mix of level trails and a few hills thrown in for fun.

    Just over 3 hours on my feet which meant I was just back in time to take elder Lorenzito to a rugby refereeing course and see Mrs L and younger Lorenzito disappear out of the door to head out for a run with the club younger L runs for.

    So now it's decision time: a nice relaxing bath or writing the outstanding Christmas cards? 

  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Good progressive 12 miler there GD.

    A bit fresh out there this morning.  Couldn't find the hat and despite initially taking the gloves I decided it wasn't cold enough as I waited for the Garmin to pick up the signal so put them back inside.  Bad mistake as I discovered 5 minutes later as he finger started to resemble icicles.  16 miles in just over 2 hours with the last 8 miles at 7:15 m/m.  A bit of a struggle for the first half but picked up some enthusiasm once I'd reached the turn.

    Brings me up to 54 miles for the week and time to start the VLM 2011 scheduleimage

  • Do the cards Lorenzo, the brownie points you will gain for that little task will be incredible!! Nice 20.5 miler.

    Solid progressive run there Gul.

    Welcome to Pipes and Neil and Jane (and any others tooimage)

    I haven't posted too much as I am still not quite over the back issue and it's rather boring listening to people be miserable or describe their injuries etc, far better to listen and be inspired by solid training or a stonking race.

    Hopefully, hopefully, the end is in sight for the injury and I shall resume (slow and cautious) training shortly before I sink into insanity!!!!

  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭
    x-post: well it's the bath for me Lorenzo accompanied by a warm cup of coffee and the Sunday Times!  Nice 20 miler there.
  • Nice running this morning people. Hope Speedy's "non-race" went well.

    MM: I didn't really have a clue about slow long runs during my last marathon campaign. I just followed the schedule to the letter - and often felt quite tired. It's only once I bought P&D and also started reading some of these forums that I started to get a better idea about structured training. For Paris I had 4*20miles, 1*18 & 1*17 - but everything averaged under 8minute/miles. This time around I'll be slowing things down. The last 2 weekends I've done a 17miler and an 18.5 miler - both at around 8.20m/m.

    Lorenzo: Can you not write the cards whilst in the bath? How is the snow & ice in Kent these days? I'm flying over next week for Christmas at mum and dad's, so hoping to get out a few times.
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    Some great tips on here from you all. Welcome to Neil, and hello also to fellow female runners Jane and Pipes! Cracking half and marathon times there Pipes and I should be delighted if I could emulate them one day.

    Fit in 11M LSR today averaging 8.27m/m. It occurred to me today that I could benefit from using a HRM to ensure I am in the correct zone for the type of run I am doing. I have always just gone by perceived effort but think it might be time to dig mine out and give it a go if I am serious about trying to go sub-3 one day.
  • Great long runs from Lorenzo Gul Dar SBD and oslo Neil. Hoping Speedy's non race goes well too.
    14 miles exactly for me this morning at 7m58s pace in 1h51mins going through the 13.1 miles in 1h44mins. That brings up 61.23 miles for the week which I'm very chuffed with. Now sitting in bed wearing my Skins with my legs elevated on some pillows having had my recovery drink and eaten a banana.
  • Can't quote off this iTouch but I'm expecting some ribbing from the eagle eyed amongst you who noticed Pipes' 85min time translating to a sub 3.......
  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    MM - make it a 1:23 and I'll mention it.

    KK - depends if you have an IM goals in 2011 or not. IMO the best thing you can do between now and Jan 2nd is to try and run frequently rather than long. Regular 5M runs will toughen your body up and make you more durable. You may have to put the Jan 2nd date back a bit too. If you have IM goals in 2011, then you need to focus on a weekly LSR, maybe a midweek 13 or 14M and 1 or 2 other runs. If 3:15 is a stretch target then its still going to be tough off that mileage. if you can run 6 days/week and cut out the 4 and 5M recovery runs  (and do them in the lido instead) then you will be running plenty of miles.

  • Gul - Nice running, please remind me are you doing VLM (or another) this year or just concentrating on getting fitness back?

    KR - Did you get any advice on what to do during this period before the results are known?

    Lorenzo - do both.

    SBD - Another nice run and a good starting point for the campaign ahead.

    Sue - Shame about your back and I heard that you are not doing Lochaber but are possibly going to do Edinburgh instead. I never did get round to posting the pic of us Lochaber this year, now where did I put it......

    OsloNeil - Sounds like you are a few weeks into a schedule already or are you just ticking over and maintaining things?

    MsE - Would definately reccomend a HR monitor, if you get used to them and know how to read the output they can tell you so much about how you are actually performing.

    Took a sneaky drive round my running routes yesterday afternoon and they are all basically unrunnable. the majority of the course is free of snow but there are several patches of 400metres or more where the snow is still six inches of slush and running on the road is just not safe (blind corners and 60mph traffic).

    So another 20 miles at -3 degrees on the treadmill at 70% WHR, leggings, shorts, one top and gloves. Legs were cold but bearable, hands were frozen, torso and head - sweating like a hot pig. Crazy days, but at least it is helping to get the weight off and I'm now they lightest that I've been for twenty odd years. 

  • Hello OGL. No - don't post that picture!!! 20 miles on the 'mill is some going. I would have slowly lost the will to live I think!! Do you plan to do Lochaber again? I am gutted. I love that race.

    MsE - I would recommend a HRM. I wouldn't try to fit into any prescribed 'zones' though. Just wear it for a month and note what HR shows for what perceived effort. I think the whole HR thing is such an individual thing that this is the only way to go. I know without looking what my HR is likely to be in the region of at any given time for any given effort. I find the data useful though.

    KK - thanks, hope you feel better too. My kids have both just had gastric-flu, which was pretty awful. Little germ-ridden balls of snot, that's what anyone under the age of 10 is at this time of year!! I agree with TR, lots of easy miles - maybe with a touch of MP work thrown in once a week for good measure?

    Nice miles SBD

  • Welcome Neil and nice to see you back Sue - hope the back gets better.

    Some good long running this weekend - SBD, Barry, Lorenzo, MM

    The conditions where you are sound pretty terrible OGL and that is pure dedication to the cause running on the treadie dressed up like that.

    KK - Can't give you any advice re: minimum mileage, I think a better question is what key sessions do you need to do and what mileage do you need to put in to each of those sessions each week to make them count. Also, I always start my marathon schedules a week early to allow for the inevitable injury or illness.

     Keir wrote (see)

    Cheers for the tip AC. Will use elevation as well to break things up and looking forward to tempo runs and intervals with the Tready setting the pace and only having to follow.

    However why kms? I do everything in miles normally. In fact, as the Tready is all in mph I am trying to work out the mph speed equivilant for every time between 8.45 - 6.30 min pace. Anyone done this already?Mph not available on McMillian.

    KMs go more quickly and doing the mental arithmatic of converting mph pace to kmph and vice versa makes the time go quicker tooimage

    Lastly - the impact of cold weather running - I was reading Noakes on Friday hoping that he would say someone had discovered that running outside in lower temperatures has a positive training benefit. Alas not. But for those of you who have a copy I can tell you that the story on page 254 is pretty funny and recommends an interesting use of socks for male runners who want to avoid frostbiteimage

  • TRTR ✭✭✭

    AC - it never ceases to make me smile (in an ironic way), that I spend many winter hours running on a cold coast in the early mornings in some pretty cold temps and wind chills, in various layers of clothing for the Sun or humidity to come out for a warm run round a land-locked city.

    KK - if no IM then you can do  PnD type plan. Maybe the 55 mpw one. and ont worry about the hilly terrain just go on perceived effort. I will add though, that I'm not one that does 20M runs off road on the trails, I'm training for a pancake flat 26M on the tarmac, so I'm teaching my legs to expect that on long runs. So IMO you should run long on the road even if its hilly.

  • Wow - lots to catch up on. Hi everyone and thanks for the welcome (Barry B, Oslo N, MM, GD)

    A.C - NY was AMAZING. i love the americans. lovely enthusiastic bunch that they are, 10 deep and going crazy at mile 24 image
    Now you don't get that at Loch Ness do you Frazer? image
    last 5 miles i cant ever remember as i was legging it to the end with one eye on my watch in a world of my owm. it annoys me that i cant "enjoy" the place/ scenery/ high fiving my way along 1st Ave etc. as i'm too busy getting a PB. My friend actually stopped and took a pic on the verrazano bridge. its a cool pic but i'd not dream of doing that. none the less he's the one with the great pic in his loo and i only have the memory in my head.

    KR - just off to do 14 miles along the grand union canal. (nice day here in london)
    Pace - 7.45- 8 min miles
    Have safari version 5.03 - still doesnt work so you'll not be getting any pics/ quotes boxes from me

    Pipes - you are inspiring me to do pyramids and shorter speedier stuff. i do all my long runs alone at MP but am rather liking the sound of giggly long runs at 8.30 pace with my girlfriends. i may have to ask you more about that.

    off for a 14 miler now

    see you all later
  • Matchstick Man wrote (see)
    Can't quote off this iTouch but I'm expecting some ribbing from the eagle eyed amongst you who noticed Pipes' 85min time translating to a sub 3.......

    Yeah, but she's got a sub 1:22 to her name as well which helps image

    18 for me round The Great Park today - 9 with the group then a 2nd lap on my own. 2nd lap slightly faster, but not by much, and I really found the last couple of hills pretty testing - must do some more hill work pretty soon. Ended up with 18.16 miles in 2:29:53 which is 8:15 pace, and HR spot on at 149 average, but it was quite a bit higher the last 4 miles, and I wouldn't have wanted to go much further. I now predict a lot of sitting down for the rest of the day.

  • KK, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but a 16 week schedule for VLM starts on December 27th.

    Sue, I have my fingers crossed for you.

    Report from today's trot will follow in a few hours after food and long hot bath.
  • Welcome aboard OsloNeil, Pipes and jane326! Great to see a few more peps joining in the fun.

    I’ve finally decided on running the Belfast Marathon next year and targeting sub 3:10 as my goal. That’s only 3 minutes quicker than my recent PB but between 12 weeks and 9 weeks before the marathon I’ll be in Cuba getting married and eating and drinking waaaaay too much every day!image

    It’s 20 weeks to Belfast now so my plan is to run 3 x 20+ milers before Cuba and 3 after. I’m also considering running my last LSR before Cuba pretty close to MP so the first week of my ‘Marrymoon’ will be a recovery week. My rationale is to bring myself close to marathon fitness before Cuba, so I’ll have less fitness to recovery too after the inevitable drop due to the Cuban partying.

    Has anyone else had a holiday 2 to 3 months before a marathon and still managed a PB? Any tips or advice would be appreciated.

  • Looking forward to the report Speedy, I like your reportsimage

    Badbark - no advice from me I am afraid but i did go to Cuba with Mr C before we were married (gosh - that's about 14 years ago now!) and loved the place so I am envious of you getting married there. Can you time one of your recovery weeks for while you are away to negate the effects of reduced training? I would think you would have enough time when you get back to regain any losses.

    Jane - Do you do all your steady mileage at 7.45-8mm? That's not so far away from your last MP no? Even assuming a 3.15 marathon pace of 7.27mm, that's pretty quick! I just noted that you said you struggle to hit the faster paces, to be honest I would do too if I ran all my other miles at close to MP!! Typically, easy miles are run around MP + 60-90 secs per mile. If you slowed down, you would be able to perhaps cope better with the more intense stuff and more volume (if you wanted to)?

  • Badbark - I was in Mexico for 3 weeks in August last year and then ran a 3 min PB (going from 3:16:30 to 3:13:30 give or take) at Abingdon in October. When I was on hols I was caught some kind of virus (swine flu?!) and whilst it didn't stop my enjoyment of the holiday for more than a couple of days, I didn't feel like running until the last week when I managed a couple of 6-7 milers.

    I had a reasonably good base to work from having done London earlier in April and the Picnic in June, so I just concentrated on getting in some quality sessions (one long run with last 25% at MP, one speed session and one medium length mid week run per week) in the month or so between coming back and starting the taper. 

    It sounds as though you're in good shape, so I wouldn't worry unduly about having the time off and two months is long enough to top up the base when you get back. Anyhow, can't you persuade the future Mrs B&B to let you take your running gear and you can at least fit in a few runs in between all the post wedding cross training exercise you'll be up to! image

    The most important thing is that you enjoy the wedding and don't fret about losing fitness - there are plenty of marathons to be run, but not too many opportunities to enjoy getting hitched.image

    BTW - I managed to find time for a bath and the Christmas cards - only a few more to go now!

  • Welcome to so many, looks like the stakes are being raised by some quality runners, maybe Jase won't be on out front on his own for long.  Some heroic treadmill efforts too.

    Badbark - a hol 2-3 months before a race is not stg to worry about, tons of time to catch up when you come home.  Thousands of people run overseas races in places like NY or Boston and many are jet lagged/knackered/dehydrated from a long flight only a day or two beforehand - that's got to be much more debilitating than a holiday 8-12 weeks earlier. Have a great time, and an enormous fat cigar.

    9m mostly on the beach this morning (Minni - it's perishing on the coast, must be worse up your way)

  • Good running from SBD,MM,Lorenzo,MSe, Gul, BOTF and OGL

    4 recovery miles for me today, breaking in new shoes, feel fine. These will be marthon shoes as current ones getting close to 400 miles.

    Badbark - Don't fancy some warm weather training then?  As others have said Cuba is a wonderful place.  If you 're staying in Varadero try and do the Catamaran day trip.

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭

    KK - I came back from injury in Spring and started with 6 mpw in June, so mileage was lower than it should be for my Abingdon campaign. In total I averaged 38 mpw inc 5 longest runs = 99 miles. Achieved sub 3.10, However I don't think it is simply a case of saying do X mileage per week and you will run X time.

    MM - Congratulations on the highest weekly mileage week I have seen on this thread for quite sometime. image Why on the earth would you want to use the fitness from that sort of mileage to run a marathon?

    SBD - Sounds like you are all motivated and excited to start the campaign then image

    Neil - Snow in southern Kent all gone (apart from very few hidden patches). North Kent still has snow on fields but roads all open. This week is meant to be cold again though. Whereabouts in Kent will you be returning to? If you join in the 10k there will be 3 of us requiring post event pints. image

    Like you Lorenzo, I hit the North Downs way today. Planned to do 18m, BarryB style (no food, gels, water, just breakfast as fuel). Not too worried about pace as I wanted to go up and down a few hills. In fact did quite a bit cross fields and through woods, as the mood took me. Remembered to lube up my nips and lips but forgot my tackle. Not normally a problem but the black pats I had on I thought were the running tight friendly version, but turned out to be the ones that look like running tight friendly, but certainly are not. A quick lower half strip tease in the woods removed them and commando running was totally fine. image

    Approaching home I realised the run was going to be closer to 19 miles, so took a loop to extend it to 20m in 2hr 39 mins (at least that what the watch said) However Sportstracks lowered that to 19.88 miles image A good progressive run with 5m split pace of 8.21 / 8.09 / 7.55 / 7.37.

    If I am working on sub 3 as a target  (6.52 M Pace) are LSRs @ 8.01 pace to fast? 

    Would love a bath. When I got home my wife was tearing her hair out with my youngest who has hit the terrible 2s. I've just spent 2 hrs in the garden and at the playground. Bob the Builder is currently carmly the situation temporarily image

  • OGL - getting outside is still basically impossible here eh ! I hear it's due to get cold again mid next week too. Great effort in your garage today. I did a hills session at the gym. Fun, fun

    Keir - presumably you've tried mentally breaking it up into chunks. I do 2 and a half minutes then have a mini reward of a sip of water (how totally tragic is that ??!!). Even more tragically I now know 30 seconds is about 42 steps so seem to spend the whole time counting under my breat. Have you seen the Running for Fitness website ? Lots of good calculators on there for converting speeds and stuff

    Sue - keep the faith. Presumably you're doing loads of core strength work ??

    Speedy - how was the (not a) race ?

    Badbark - will your hol have lots of days travelling ? In some ways if you're in one site with whole days available it might work in your favour. I was away about 4 weeks before Loch Ness - hardest bit was finding somewhere appropriate to train. Presumably climate there'll be a challenge too

    Jane - indeed - crowd support is not exactly a feature at LN ! Have to say the tranqulity when running suited me just fine though

    Keep it up everyone !

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