Sub 3h15



  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Totally agree with your race approach lit. I did the same thing at the Surrey Half and Brighton Marathon this year and it worked well. Congratulations on race great execution.

    Just back from a 7 miler (7.07 pace) over the hills around Reigate. felt rubbish on the uphill sections. Legs heavy and jelly-like. It was my 4h run in 4 days after 5.3 on the trails on Saturday, an untimed 5k on Sunday and a treadmill 5k last night at the gym. Did a 19.23 on the tready last night. Should have been quicker but it to ages to get up to speed. Hadn't been on one for a while and it felt a bit weird.

    Mile 7 today was a gradual downhill so I bombed it to see if my new marathon fitness could deliver a training PB for that stretch. 5.56 for the final mile is my first ever sub-6 mile split.

    Happy with that. I'm determined to capitalise on my new fitness this year as last year I cracked a rib playing football and lost it all.

    MsE - hope that ankle is getting plenty of ice!!



  • Bike ItBike It ✭✭✭

    WOW - that was worth the long read back for amazing running tales.  Some brilliant individual performances and good to see everyone's effort-o-meter registering 100%. In particular it is fantastic to see Jools, MsE and Lit running to such a high level of absolute performance to register sub-3 and Birch on his ongoing inspirational results.

    Same again next year anyone?

    Managed a 20 miler this weekend for the first time in 6 weeks which I thought went well although the pace was slow.  Then hip pain when I ran after the kids later in the day so the period of modest mileage running could continue a little longer.

  • lit, agree with your plans and execution. There is this "negative split is best" myth but it just does not appear to be true. There were 69 people who finished 2:52.xx so even splits are 1:26. 9 of the 69 had negative splits and I question some of those, so the biggest was a 6 minute negative split by a guy with a half PB of 76 minutes so he should be closer to 2:40 than 2:50. The vast majority had positive splits of about 3 or 4 minutes and then the outliers (75 and 97, ouch!)

  • It's a difficult one to call PMJ, but I think that you'd need the HR data to go with the pace. My best race of 2:59 was a slight negative split. I just enough left to dig deep and push hard for finish time.
    My pb race of 2:58 was a positive split. I hit halfway ahead of programme and already knew it was likely to go south. The last 1.2 miles were bombed and a complete arse drag.

    I shall not describe the races that I've done since then. Refer to The Accidental Runner for the general idea. 5 weeks' training, and then discover that you've covered the first 6 miles with the group targeting 2:45. Not pretty.

    Anyway. I've only come here to bask in the glory of some truly inspirational icons. I am not worthy to tie the laces of your racing shoes.

  • marrowsmarrows ✭✭✭

    Huge well done to Birch and MsE!  And TAR, if everyone enjoys your report as much as I did, we will soon cancel out the nuisance to you of running the marathon.

    I had a good time watching.. spotted Joolska totally bossing it etc. at 24.5 and a few other threadsters, clubmates, and celebrities. 

    Yesterday was my first run after 6 weeks out with stress fracture - only a wee jog but gave me sore muscles. Impatient.

  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭

    Those chip times make the gun times of the fast people even more impressive.

    I did the math 3 yrs ago prior to a (successful) sub3 attempt and concluded that for the average runner, neg splits are like hens' teeth. The vast majority on a course like London (which arguably has a slower 2nd half) get a bit of time in the bank early doors. I think the stats suggest that for Mr/Ms Average, something like 1.27-1.28.30 for the 1st half is a good way to approach scraping under 3hr. These times presumably scale up to other targets like 4hr or 5hr.

    TAR - entertaining as ever - but you're not getting away with that modesty. (1) you beat at least 20,000 people without bothering to train, and (2) in the post race pics you look pretty fresh. The only downside is that in the pic of thee & me together, it appears that you have been slipped a Mickey Finn in the dodgiest bar in Rio and woken up with much to be ashamed of.

    Bike It - how are you looking for the big one?

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Great reports from TaR and Birch. TaR, we'd all be proud to have a pint with you anytime. Birch, are you sure there isn't another marathon in those legs image.

    I always run positive but I don't think you know until you finish if you got it about right. This year I feel I was spot on. I ran more or less even pace, I know I was on the limit with my left quad near to cramp and more pace at any point could have finished in disaster.

    Lit, I had not realised you ran so fast- very well done. 

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭

    LIT - congrats on the PB. 
     - loved the report!
    GD - well done on the sub 6 mile.
    Bike It - you have been very patient - hopefully not much longer to go now.
    marrows - hi. Sorry to hear about the stress fracture. Hope it's healed now.

  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭

    excellent result & race execution, Lit 

    marrows - sorry to hear about the stress fracture - good you're now back on the road

    well done on the comeback 20, BikeIt

    still recovering here - quads & calves still sore . . . . 

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭

    Hang in there, BikeIt, you are running which is the main thing. And pleased to see you are back after your time out for that stress fracture, marrows.  image Did you consider buying a bone stim machine when you were benched?

    Mostly feeling OK here. I think the dog walking is helping. Just stiff first thing in the morning and my sprained ankle is the sorest bit of me but it is now tightly wrapped up in compression bandage.  Off to the gym for some cross training today.

    When will we see a photo of Carmen Miranda....?

  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭
    Can anyone offer me advice about goal setting? My progression is:

    April 2014 3:32+

    Oct 2014 3:22+

    April 2015 3:15+; 1:31+ HM; 40:59 10k; 19:22 5k

    Oct 2015?

    April 2016?

    Age 41, avg 45 miles a week, peaked at 55 for this last marathon. I was using 3:15 GFA as a motivator but got lucky in the ballot so no longer fussed about banking a sub 3:15. Sub 3 is the big one really.

    Really after some knowledge on what to think about as you get closer to a sub 3 attempt from here and what sort of changes you had to make
  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭

    I’m completely blown away with some of the amazing and gutsy performances at VLM.

    Jools – I’m so happy for you to have cracked sub 2:50 with such a fantastic performance. You are an inspiration for us all and your hard work has brought you the result you deserve. I know you had plenty of disappointments along the way to sub 3 but have taken yet another huge leap forward again.

    GE – Great report and GFA achieved especially considering your cramping issues.

    OO – Excellent sub 3 and PB

    SB - Well done on the sub 3:15 and cramp management.

    DPoD – Unlucky not get sub 3:15 but that’s still a great performance

    MsE – Fantastic sub 3 and loved your detailed report

    Lor- Excellent sub 3:10 and a good report

    RJ – 2:22! Take a bow Sir. Stellar!

    Brix- Great PB and sub 3:15

    Poach- Nice fancy dress running and your 58 completed marathons/ultras is amazing. So will you be targeting 100 then?

    Birch – Great 3:18 and age group placing. Well done on the recent improvement. Great report too.

    TAR – Sorry to read about your woes but a gutsy performance.

    London was my 18th marathon (or ultra) with all but one in the last 5 years since I turned 40. I ran a recent HM PB of 1:20:45 and was targeting my marathon PB of 2:54:08 set in Dublin 2013. All my times were slower last year due to concentrating on Ultra marathons and I only ran 2:58 in Dublin last year while trying to PB. This year I was determined to improve despite missing weeks of training in January and getting Chicken Pox a month ago. I followed a 12 week P&D schedule peaking at 95 miles.

    I flew over on Friday and got to the expo for the first time and enjoyed doing laps of the free sample stands. It certainly helped with the carbo loading stuffing my face with Cliff shots and bars. I ran the Becton Parkrun on Saturday and finished holding hands with former 5k/HM world record holder Lornah Kiplagat.

    Race morning went well and I lined up at the FGFA section full of confidence wearing a 2:52:30 (6:35) pace wrist band. Off we went at 10:10 and I took about 30 seconds to reach the start line and started my Garmin. As everyone knows it’s not easy to run your own pace due to the early congestion and I completed the first mile in 6:50. This was expected so nothing to worry about and I knew a few downhill miles would soon bring me back on course. The important thing was to stay relaxed and not weave round people if possible.

    The next few miles were ticked off in 6:38, 6:18, 6:12, 6:20, 6:26 and I reached 10k in about 40:10 a little ahead of schedule. I checked my HR for the one and only time and was happy to see it was sitting around 150 and I was feeling strong and relaxed. I wanted to get to half way slightly ahead of target as I expected a little slow down later on. I ran the following miles in 6:30, 6:27, 6:28, 6:30, 6:25, 6:36, 6:32, 6:37 and went through half way in just over 1:25.

    At 14 miles I was feeling great and started to think that a sub 2:50 might be possible. I decided to forget about targeting 6:35 pace average and try to run 6:30 and see how I felt after 20 miles.  I was hoping to see my family around 15 miles and while looking for them forgot my Garmin lap button and forgot again at 16 miles. The tall building in Canary Wharf were playing havoc with my Garmin too. At 17 miles I hit lap 3 times to bring me back on course but had run those miles in over 6:35 pace.

    It was getting tougher now and I could only manage 6:38 and 6:45 through plenty of turns and a few minor inclines. I knew 2:50 was slipping away and even started getting concerned my initial goal of sub 2:54 would be in danger if I didn&rsqu

  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭


    if I didn’t pick it up a bit. I buckled down, gritted my teeth and managed 6:15 and reached 20 miles feeling strong again.

    Only 10k to go with my Garmin showing 6:30 pace average which I knew would have me over 2:50 but well inside 2:54. I told myself it was just a 10k race and I just had to work hard for another 40 minutes. I started my mantra of ‘PB for Charlotte’ (daughter) to keep my focused.

    I was giving it all now and managed 6:35, 6:23 and 6:36 to bring me to 23 miles. I was over taking lots more than were going passed me but the quads were really shouting for me to back off. Not a chance! I pushed again and managed 6:29 but the legs were like lead and I ran a 6:45 with a mile and a bit to go.

    Around this stage I over took Jenson Button and reached 26 miles after running about 6:40. I managed to rally one last time and did my best to sprint to the line in 02:51:08 chip time. That’s a PB by 3 minutes and I was chuffed to bits.

    I’m not disappointed to miss a sub 2:50 as it was unlikely all things considered, and I have no doubt I’ll break it in the future. My time has a score of 78% WAVA which is higher now than my 5k best. Apparently if I was 20 years younger I could run 2:40. Over the last 7.2k I over took 104 people and was overtaken by just 13 so happy with that too.

    My legs aren’t too bad with DOMS and I can still take steps going forward which is a bonus. Next stop for me is the Belfast Marathon on Monday before a 50k trail Ultra Marathon 19 days later! Run Badbark Run!

    Edit -My attempt at a sprint finish can be seen in the background after about 4 seconds here - image

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    Badbark- nice time and report image and I wouldn't be bet against you running 2:40 in the future either image 2:45 next though image

    18 tough miles cranked out this morn , unsurprisingly it was a bit of a battle after sunday ! still needs must image

  • Just been comparing splits between my run in 2014 and 2015:


    1st Half - 1:35:08

    2nd Half - 1:37:44

    Total - 3:12:52


    1st Half: 1:34:31

    2nd Half: 1:38:56

    Total - 3:13:27

    The spooky thing is, my 40k time was an identical 3:02:45...

    I am not sure trying to run a negative split would work for me at marathon distance. I don't feel I have that many marathons in me to experiment.
  • Great time & report Badbark. I'm sure sub 2.50 is there for the taking soon. Good luck on Monday in the Belfast marathon, not sure I would be thinking about doing another one so soon after but good Ultra training nonetheless. What time are you targeting?

    Good 18 miler Leslie - on tender legs!

    Sandy, very close finishing times. Which one felt better?Looks like you have made a good progression over the past few years Granola

  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭

    Great report BB. Fantastic time. This really is turning into a sub-3 thread.image

    Interesting splits SB. Checked my Brighton splits:

    1st Half - 1.36.57
    2nd Half - 1.37.00
    Total - 3.13.57

    Positive split by just 3 seconds. Like most other runners I know, the neg split rarely happens in a full marathon. My individual mile splits were very consistent but perceived effort for the final 6 miles was getting harder with every step!


  • Badbark wrote (

    I ran the Becton Parkrun on Saturday and finished holding hands with former 5k/HM world record holder Lornah Kiplagat.

    She seems happy about that as well

    Tied with Mark Walker at Beckton parkrun (2015)


  • AbbersAbbers ✭✭✭

    Don't worry GD; I'm still around to bring the overall thread standard down image

  • Abbers wrote (see)

    Don't worry GD; I'm still around to bring the overall thread standard down image

    Me too.

    Well done Badbark, just shed some timber and you'll be as fast as ickle Jools. Or is that just the compressed video clip?

    Sorry that we are ignoring you Granola. It was not intentional. Your progression seems to be perfectly normal. You may be now getting to the stage where the same training regime will start to produce the same race results. I suggest that you read as many as you can, and design your own programme to suit your own understanding of the gaps. I have never been one for rigid plans, as my daily and weekly diary is too variable. That's why I tend to adopt a generic approach, and identify the key sessions. The key features include:

    - Decent weekly mileage. Usually a bit more than I'm currently doing. 6 days a week.
    - Long run. Alternate 22 with 16 milers at the weekends.
    - Speed work. Either a single hard session midweek, or an interval session, or track work, or a short race.
    - Other folks also try to put in a medium-long run midweek, say 9-10 miles.
    It gets you 50-55 miles a week. You may need to build up to that.
    - Plenty of hard races around the 10k to HM range. Races are great training.
    - Rivalry. It is important when racing that beating that one last geezer from the opposition club matters like nothing else on earth.

    And finally, praise.
    Well Done G DAWG. A proper sub 3:15 runner. There's some imposters here.


  • Bike ItBike It ✭✭✭

    I've run 3 negative splits, 2 of which were PBs at the time, one even split which is my current PB and the rest is all positive splits - some marginal and one substantial.  I'm still not sure if one approach is faster (providing the difference is smallish within a few minutes), but I know which is more pleasurable (less painful).

    Poacher - I'm happy I can be in a position to get to the start of the big one - barring disasters I'll be there.  The day itself will carry me to the end. At this stage I just want to finish it and don't have any time goal and expect just to finish on absolutely empty.  I'll execute the strategy I developed in 2012: At the start - be humble; In the first half - be smart; In the second half - be tough; At the finish - be happy.  This time I'm fully aware of how tough the second half of the course will be and can prepare myself accordingly.


  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    BadBark - simply amazing. It was definitely due to you and I'm glad the missed training and pox didn't derail you. Great report! Are you still on a vegan diet? I've been vegetarian, well, pescetarian, for a while now and feel much better for it. MrE is not too impressed with it though.
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    Hang on. The Belfast marathon next Monday?!
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    Sandy B - your two races aren't too dissimilar. Did they feel comparable efforts? How many marathons have you done? I think both times are brilliant!
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    BadBark - AND a 50K?!
  • BadbarkBadbark ✭✭✭
    PhilipMJones wrote (see)
    Badbark wrote (

    I ran the Becton Parkrun on Saturday and finished holding hands with former 5k/HM world record holder Lornah Kiplagat.

    She seems happy about that as well

    Tied with Mark Walker at Beckton parkrun (2015)


    PMJ, that really did make me LOL. Although some spoil sport has edited it out already. I'm on her twitter site though -

    Blisters - As you can see from the picture above I don't have much timber to shed being 6 foot tall and about 145 lbs. image

    Granola - Everything Blisters said is great. Personally, I do believe the single most important thing anyone can do to improve their running is to run more. There is a reasons elites from 5k distance upwards run more than 100 miles weekly. I stagnated between 3:10 to 3:18 in marathons for 2 years on 50 to 60 miles a week. Now that I'm running over 90 regularly I'm down to 2:51.

    MsE - Funnily enough I ate my flesh in over 5 years by having a Salmon meal after the marathon. I originally became pescetarian for a year, then vegetarian and then vegan for health reasons but have become convinced that a full veggie is not the optimal diet. It's certainly healthier than most diets but lacks a few essentials. So I'm now a pescetarian too as I intend to eat a couple or portions of oily fish a week. I'm also eating 6 eggs a week supplied by a friend who has their own chickens.

    I'm glad you're feeling good with your diet and know exactly how you feel. Yes, I am indeed running Belfast Marathon on Monday but it's really only a training run on tired legs towards the 50k in 3 weeks.


    In regards to the negative split discussion I think it's worth aiming for one, but in reality a slight positive split is more likely if you are pushing yourself to the absolute limit. 

  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    Thanks blisters and badbark. Thats very helpful.  

    Interesting re diet. I was brought up veggie on cultural grounds and am basically pescatarian now. I do find myself resorting to protein supplements as training became more structured and volumes increase though.

    Ive certainly noticed that hard races seem to deliver a good training stimulus that seems to generate gains. How often would you race though?

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    Tom Williams ha just posted that link up on his fb page BB. You are indeed famous!
  • NayanNayan ✭✭✭

    oh yeah - how many people here crossed the line HashtagHandInHand?

  • SlokeyJoeSlokeyJoe ✭✭✭
    Granola, mileage and time / multiple campaigns and not getting injured. Consistently consistent etc. That'll see you right.

    Great report BB.

    Pescatarian here too!
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