Sub 3h15

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  • Welcome Luna Man and DM1974. Much to digest on this thread - a veritable gold mine.

    I use the High-5 gels - citrus flavour for general use, and the raspberry caffeine ones for racing. You've actually just reminded me I need to restock.

    Blisters and beer wrote (see)

    I was meaning to ask you a question BOTF. I'm not sure if you've mentioned this before but I was wondering how the raced HM will affect your 20 mile race the week after. You may do few miles a week but you'll certainly be hammering your legs!

    Last year these races were the other way round, and the fact that my father was seriously ill meant at times my schedule went out the window and I had to fit things in whenever I could, and I ended up doing a lot in a short period. I ran a very light week before the 20, and because of Dad I hadn't run my scheduled 20's at that point, so I ran it on HR rather than flat out, and was very pleasantly surprised to do 2:23. I did do the first 10 too fast though and slowed a bit towards the end - couldn't stay with Joolska when she came past me, so I'll definitely be looking at a slightly lower HR for the first lap this year. The HM I went banzai for a new 1:26:15 pb, and then I actually followed this with a 21 and a 22 the next 2 weekends. I then had a light week before doing 1:25:15 at Reading. When I came out of this 5 week period I really felt so much stronger and faster, and it was a great confidence booster. I found a hard half nowhere near as tiring as a 20, even a slow one - my legs didn't get as sore and my recovery was defintely faster, so in many regards I actually regarded the half as a light week. Obviously my original plan didn't have so much crammed into such a short period, but having to regularly go home to visit Dad left me with little option If I was to fit enough training in.

    This year Wokingham is the week before Bramley, and my schedule has a light week either side. I will do Wokingham flat out as it's a club championship event for me, but again I'll run Bramley to HR and just see how things go. Hopefully this time I'll have 4 x 20 already under my belt which is more than last year, so maybe I won't fade quite so much, but I will run it fairly hard just to find out where I really am.

  • i would send off for new battery
    when my garmin failed they sent me a totally new box so i have doubles of everything apart from the watch
    the customer service was ACE (took 3 days)
    not sure how much new battery is but they may replace it free depending on how old it is
  • So when people go on long runs, if you're a gel user do you take gels along with a bottle of water to cover you for 2-3hrs? Or if you mix up sports drink do you take just that or gels as well?

    I've never really got this quite sorted or understood the best way to go about it! Ideas appreciated.

  • Yeah, it does KK. Let's face it, it ain't much use if it doesn't work!

    Thanks for the explanation BOTF! Looks like you've got it all covered.

  • KK - i know what you mean. i was on the phone to them daily. the guy was so fed up of me staying "i REALLY need you to send this back ASAP - i'm training for the VLM image

    i think they fixed it extra fast to get me off their case

    But they are good - i was VERY impressed Garmin
  • KK I have had to send my garmin back a four times. I have always got it back within a week. and if its within warranty you get a new 1 year warranty.

  • Ormeski -   Each to their own but I never carry drinks/water.  If I'm using gels on a run I'll take enough for one after 45 mins then every 30 mins.

  • Badbark - mental tempo run! You seem to be flying
    Lorenzo - 13 miles before breakfast on a weekday? Impressed but then we expect nothing less from you
    B&B - nifty little 10 miler there
    Ormeski - On long runs this spring I was trying to get into the habit of gels every 3 or 4 miles to get myself used to taking them onboard prior to London. I would also take a camelbak reservoir in my Salomon rucksack with Luozade drink in that and try and drink regularly. Even on last week's 14 miler I took a gel at 6 miles.
    I know Race Jase is all about doing long runs on nothing but from the SSX experience the thinking behind it is that long runs take a toll on your system so the more you can replenish your stocks as you run along the better your chances of recovery will be. So it's not necessarily about fuelling your run as much as trying to help you recover quicker. When I was planning long runs (18 miles +) I'd pay very close attention to my food and drink intake in the preceding 24hours - good breakfast, lunch and dinner with plenty of fluids. Try and get some cereal and/or toast before I go and have a recovery drink and food ready for when I finish. Try to be intelligent in the way you approach your long runs and you'll get more out of them
  • @Barry B - so you'll run for 3hrs without any liquid?
  • Welcome to Luna man and DM!

    Nice racing Orm, in particular, as you were ill prior to the race. I have always overlooked fuel in the past although my racing history is not long with just a sprinkling of triathlons, duathlons, a few 5Ks, one 10K and one half. I am using the SIS gels at the moment which have been adapted so you don't necessarily need to take them with water. They are not quite so sickly but are still an acquired taste/texture! I used one before heading out for 11M on Sunday and I definitely felt the difference as I tend to run on empty in the mornings. I think I will try to get used to taking one every 45 mins or so and see how I get on with that - it's all a bit experimental and quite subjective I guess so my needs as a small female (contrary to popular belief) will be less than yours as a male... unless you too are 5'2.5"? image

    Well, week 1 of the P&D schedule and after a day of circuits for my recovery / rest day yesterday I went for my first run - meant to be 8M with 4M at HM pace. My 4 miles started at 8 m/m and then sped up to 7 m/m. I think I probably should try warming up for a bit more than 2 miles as I think it takes me a while to get going, in particular with this cold weather. I ended up running 9.5M in the end as I went on to see my son's house rugby tournament. It was lovely seeing all these 7 and 8 year olds playing tag rugby! Out of 4 houses his came 4th but they seemed to be pleased enough, I think because of the audience making it a special event. Now thawing out at home...

  • KK - That sounds like a good idea, what with Xmas post and the probability of Royal Mail losing it with the extra workload.

    BarryB / Ormeski - I never take drinks on my runs either, no matter what the length. I think it's McMillan that says  you should always take drinks and electrolytes to prevent dehydration. I intend to do this when my campaign gets going and was looking at some tablet elecs on t'internet the other day. Might get some. McMillan (I think) also says that no carbs on a LSR is a good thing if it's run SLOWLY (Edit: because it encourages the body to burn fat for energy). However, if you plan to do a progressive run or up the pace to MP to finish quicker, you should feed up much like a race scenario. I think this is much like MM says, to protect the body and make sure it's not under undue stress in training.

  • Ormeski -   The only time i've run over 3 hours in training was the 23miles unfuelled last week and no liquid/gels taken, but I made sure I drank plenty of water during the day before the run.  Carrying water/drink etc is something I've never done and on long/slow runs i've not found it a problem.  I do a lot of my long runs during the summer early doors so due to it being cool it's not an issue for me and most runs at the mo are in the cold so again I've had no concerns.

  • Just to put RJ's mind at rest, I received my Champs entry form yesterday image  Now I just need to post the beggar.

    On the LSR fuelling front, I'm not too fussed about gels and will happily do an 18 miler without fuel.  Tend to take something, even if just a few jelly sweets or diluted fruit juice, for anything over that.  Can't do without water, but in fairness a long-term side effect of an illness I had as a kid is a dry mouth, so I like to sip water frequently to alleviate that. 

  • Thanks guys, good to hear different ideas and views, very useful! I think i'd be most comfortable with nothing for super slow runs other than water. For the slightly quicker longs runs i think i'm gonna go gels and water and just have a play with it! Ensuring general good hydration as well.
  • Badbark wrote (see)

    I ended up running 6 miles in 38:47 including a slower first ½ mile so averaged 6:27. This was at 5am on an empty stomach. It’s certainly not a typical run for week 1 of a 20 week marathon plan!

    You should be called Madbark - Running a 6.27 pace 6 miler at 5am - a brilliant bit of training.

    Gel wise, I go for the SIS gels as they are easier to digest. I've had some chunder experiences with others! I normally only take gels intraiing when I'm doing 18+ miles - proper distances!

    B&B - A good 10 miler at nearly PMP. It just shows that you know what your pace feels like without any gadgets to tell you. I think everyone should experience a perceived run to see the results.

  • BadBark - how on earth do you manage to get going so soon in your run? I always find it takes me a good 3-4 miles until I am running smoothly which always brings my run average down considerably. If I went off at 6.5m/m from the start I would inevitably pull something somewhere (and I don't mean on Hampstead Heath image ).

    RJ, Jools and KK - I am very curious, being new to racing, but what is this speak of Championship Entries and what benefits and privileges does it afford you? Is it something I can strive to achieve and look forward to one day if I follow the tips on here?
  • KR - Yeah, it would have been nice if it'd turned out to be 7:15mm but It felt very comfortable and I thought I was running somewhere around 7:40's so I was very happy with it.

    MsE - I thought I'd have a look out of interest so here's the link to the VLM championship entries.

  • If I'm doing an LSR I always take a drink, although there have been a few times when I get back with it untouched. Last campaign I used Powerade because that's what Brighton was serving, but this time it's Lucozade because that's what I'll get on VLM (and because I still have 2 crates left that I brought back from doing the Lucozade drink station at FLM this year). I have a 500ml bottle with a hand hole that I can carry easily, and if I'm going to be running for 15 miles or more I tape a High 5 gel to the bottle and take it with 5 miles to go. If I'm running 20 or more then I take 2 gels. I should probably get in the habit of carrying a bottle in a belt rather than hand-held, but I've never got round to it.
  • SBD recommended one of these. He's a vet so I do what he says. So that's my main present from my wife this year.
  • Whilst training for your championship place MsE, I assume you know about GFA

  •  welcome Lunaman, DM,

     great running going on already, if nothing else you lot are going to keep me motivated in the next few months...badbark 6.27 pace at 5am amazing!

    Ormeski, sis gels for me too on long runs.

                   I used to carry fluid with me (bottle lucozade) but i now know the routes that gives me 18-20-22mile runs...I now i hide a bottle about the halfway point, saves carrying it as I'am always wondering if it may alter stride,balance etc and can lead to injury! or so i have read somewhere.

  • Thank you, Keir and B&B. Is it just me or do the laydees' times seem much softer targets than the mens' times in both GFA and Championship Entries? Holding out hope I qualify as a Championship Entry in 2011 but at least the fallback GFA is there if not.
  • thanks for all the welcomes!

    1974 was indeed a good year! image

    paris this year was a pb for me of 3h27.  obviously looking to take quiet a chunk off that to get into the sub 3h15 bracket but i think that with dedication to my training and nutrition it is achievable.  i will certainly give it a good crack that is for sure.

    i'll be following the rw3h15 schedule on here which is already imported into my garmin ready for the off on 20/12.  currently i am following a maintenance schedule that sees me doing on average 60km a week.

     @kr - the paris thread is full of lists it just hasn't been posted for a while!

  • Ormeski - I've always used SIS gels. Experimented with various fluids and have settled on just water - carried on one of those Nathan belt thingies. I'm using gels less and less but to be fair haven't gone above 16 miles since last mara. I 'm planning to try to get less dependent on them but still aim to use them occasionally so if I need them in a race I'm not going to feel funny. Tried camelbak but didn't like having a bigthing on my back. 

    Thanks for the shoes comments - think I might dabble with something a bit lighter next year

    Managed to get outside for the first proper blast in the fresh air for a couple of weeks. 16 along the waterfront in exactly 2 hours. 

  • MsE: yes, positive discrimination in favour of laydeez in terms of entry standards.  It's a bit patronising, but at least we get nice loos that little bit more easily.
  • It's not at all patronising on the poor little ladies.  After all, they're made of sugar and spice and all things nice, so they need easy access to the softer toilet paper.

    "You've run a 90 minute half marathon?  Ooh, well done, you clever little poppet.  Here, have a championship entry."

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