Sub 3h15

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  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭
    edited February 23
    SBD nice fast mara paced run ,P&D doubles after 75 a week 
    Lorenzo hope you can get that knee sorted ,just sit back and enjoy the course 
    GUL a very sensible decision although not one we like as runners.
    Nearly 8m easy but at halfway the storm winds and driving rain started Doris has arrived  and it was cold bone chilling despite wearing 3 tops ! 
    Now promoted to level 2 lol !


  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear about that Gul:/

    Achilles feels better after lots of ice, massage and a few heel drops. I keep looking ahead at each training week and need to take a look at what I've just done. By Tuesday evening I'd done 43 miles in 4 days at all sorts of paces, yet I didn't really realise it.

    Have decided to ditch the run tonight and only do 4 sessions this week with 20 on Saturday and whatever I feel like to recover with on Sunday. MsE is right, rest is the key to this sort of injury. Interestingly, I've had all of these niggles before so I sort of know what to do to fix them but also keep going.

  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Go easy on that injury knife-edge GD.

    Well battled against Doris Leslie.

    Two weeks out sounds like a long time Gul - have you tried sports massage or physio?

    Hope the knee sorts itself Lorenzo

    First double session for me for some time - 10K recovery on the treadmill, followed by another 6K recovery a couple of hours later.  At least it was good to be indoors!

     

  • Wise man G-Dawg - sounds as though it's been a tough week and worth having a couple of days rest.

    Two session on the treadmill SBD? Rather you than me.

    Feeling a bit better after trip to the fizz - diagnosis is that with a bit of work it should sort itself out and I should be already be OK to do some gentle running. Will probably head into the woods first thing tomorrow.
  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭
    SBD nice hamster wheel double 
    Lorenzo sounds like you will be back at it soon.
    9.6m at 7:55 average this morn which was both dry and didn't feel at all cold due to no wind .

  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    MsE - thanks.
    GD - take it easy on that 20 miler.
    SBD - if money were no object that would certainly be worth trying. Nice double.
    Lorenzo - good news. Enjoy your run in the woods.
    Leslie - nice steady run.
    One thing I need to do while on the bench is go through my collection of running shoes and bin quite a few - most of them are past their sell-by date.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear you're benched again, Gul - hope the extended rest proves to be not too extended, and that it does the trick.
     
    Seems you may avoid the bench, Lorenzo - good news !
     
    Anyone running/spectating at Nottingham tomorrow (National XC) ?
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    Birch - thanks. How's the new training schedule going?
    Just looking at the mileage on my shoes, I think I definitely need to get rid of 3 pairs which have clocked up 921, 1240 and 1482 miles respectively. I might need to dump some of the ones with a more modest mileage too (483, 513, 650 and 670) as I know some of them are falling to pieces already. I guess all these old shoes might be contributing to my hip issue! At least I have 2 pairs which should be fine for quite a while (58 and 132). Time to look at buying some new shoes too, then!
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Sorry to hear you are benched Gul. I've no idea how many miles I've done in my shoes but like you I need a serious clear out.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Gul - my new "longest long run" of 16 suits me fine !  Although I'll miss the satisfaction of actually writing "20" or "21" in the diary  . . .
     

    Shoe miles - I started recording this the other year; being irked by shoe companies (and associated vested interests) advising changing shoes every 500 miles (I've even read 300 suggested by some) - do they think we're made of money ?  Had a pair of Adidas which I retired at 1,000 miles; subsequently taken 3 or 4 pairs to that mark.  I will retire a pair earlier if they feel "gone", but mostly I find 1,000 a reasonable tally. Currently have 3 pairs on the go - Mizuno - 459 miles, Asics Cumulus - 596, Asics GT2000 - 43.

     footnote - nowhere else could I have this debate - not the sort of thing you bring up in the pub with non-running friends, is it ? :)
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Interesting to see you have Asics Cumulus (Neutral) and Asics GT2000 (mild support) there Birch. How come the mix?

    I'm unhappy with the Mizuno 12 Inspire and thinking of going back to GT2000.

    On miles, I usually do between 500 and 600. Have done more but tend to get sore knees over 600. At 13st (12.11 this week!!!) maybe my heavier frame is also a factor?
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    I think I have to agree with shoe companies that you put excessive miles on them at your peril.  Even if they look great, the midsole cushioning compresses and you will end up incurring more impact and opening yourself up to more injuries.  One person may be able to do more in one make and style than the next, but that is a reflection of differing gaits and footfall.  If you think about how the Alter G treadmill works (reduces body weight to allow running while injured), running at, say, 75% of your bodyweight will obviously be less impact and help shoes (and healthy bodies) go further. Knowing my injury history, I am less cavalier about putting lots of miles on shoes.

    Good to hear you are going to be OK in the grand scheme of things, Lorenzo.  Sadly, I think I will have to admit to myself now that with the way things are, I won't be running that ultra this summer.

    90 minutes of hot yoga today.  It never quite hits the spot like a run.

    Good luck to all racing at the XC nationals this weekend.
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    Take your point, MsE, but since I started doing more miles in my shoes, I've not really suffered any injuries of note. 

    And even if we accept the 500 mile cutoff point, that's a new pair every 10 weeks for your average runner in marathon training ! As new models seem to start at £100, that's a big strain on many budgets; not an outlay that everyone can blithely undertake  . . .
  • Think I'm coming up to a big outlay - the two pairs of road shoes (Mizuno Hitogami) that I rotate have got about 940 miles between them and my Saucony Peregrines, whilst only 270 miles old have got a rip in them, It's the second time this has happened but they are so comfortable for off-road running that I'm being very forgiving.

    MsE - don't give up yet, there's still 4 months to go!

    5 easy miles this morning - good to be back out there (after a 48 hour break!). Knee still aches, especially at the start so I'm not planning on putting too much pressure through speed work on it yet.
  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭
    edited February 25

    GUL getting your monies worth there at 1500 miles !

    Birch plenty of shoe anorak's in here

    G-dawg running is definately tougher on the body the heavier you are.

    MSE just take your time to come back no hurry.

    Lorenzo that poor miles for a shoe ,Id be upset.

    If shoes only lasted 300 miles Id need a new pair every month ! The last 2 pairs that shared duties lasted 1500 miles in total,don't have the splits per pair but say 750 mile each and I usually get them for about 60 quid a pair (Nike pegasus but last year model)

    10.6 mile this morn which might be a record for me before days at 7:50 average, on the road for 5:09 am lol

  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭
    edited February 25

      Did anyone read this on sub 3 forum ,quite amazing really and gives us all hope ,40 years of sub 3 !!!

    Hi - not posted on forums since Asics withdrew their sponsorship from the marathon teams but someone said I really should post something after the weekend. Obviously I did quite a bit on the forum in the past and on Sunday at Seville I did something that relates to sub-3.

    I achieved a 40 year-span of sub-3 to go top of this list http://www.arrs.net/TR_SSpan.htm
    Hopefully as wasn't too terrible, have a few more left as well.
    Athletics weekly covered here http://www.athleticsweekly.com/news/steve-smythe-record-span-sub-3-marathons-57715
    :
  • The thing that amazes me about a lot of these older runners is that they have records. Ron Hill's streak seems to be documented for over 50 years, on http://www.100klifetimemiles.com/ there are lists of people who have run over 100,000 miles in their lifetime. I am 51 and have been running since I was 16 so 35 years of running and maybe I have ran 50,000 to 70,000 miles but it is only documented since I had a GPS watch. My old race times are just memories (though I found a scanned copy of my 10k PB at 33:59 from May 10 1994). 
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    I saw that in Athletics Weekly.  Steve is amazing.  He really knows his stuff and was such a nice bloke mentoring on here.  PMJ, it comes as no surprise that you ran at such an elite level.  Your insights into each run that you share on here are a lesson to me every time.

    Agree that shoes need to go a bit further for marathoners.  Birch, I bet you have wonderful form and a body made of teflon to have been running for such a long time.  Makes me very envious with my decrepit legs!  I can't help but think that the very conservative mileages suggested by shoe companies come from part arse covering and part profit seeking.

    Good to see you back at it, Lorenzo.  Just keep the fitness going (says she feeling hers ebbing away...).  You can work on adding more pace later.

    Leslie looking to steal Gul's mantle there...

    More yoga here.  I have a nice 15 minute morning sequence that covers the whole body and wakes me up nicely.  I feel like I need to do it a few times a day though!

  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    MsE - my form is terrible (biffer-style) :) , but I do seem blessed with durability - my 2 longish term injuries both occurred with unexpected lateral movement, (once on ice, once on rocky trail), each resulting in medial knee ligament damage.  I do admire your dedication to supplementary exercises - something I should pay more attention to . . .
     
    PMJ - interesting re mileage - I started recording in 1986, so of course my current total of 60,975 in 31 years has many years of estimated distance (although back then many club runners adhered to the rule "if you think you've run 10 miles, it's probably 9.5" - as of course never as fast as we believe in training) . Must say that when I acquired GPS watch, and measured my "bog standard" courses, they were quite accurate - 7 miler came in just under, but 10 miler just over (made allowance for the above rule). The 21 was almost spot-on. So I'm happy to log as I do - and I tend to round down now (eg GPS says 6.2, goes in the diary as 6) - and remain on course for the 65,000 miles by age 65.
    Re old race times - thankfully I have paper copies of my half mara PB (75:58) and 20 mile PB (2:04) , and I have the certificate one was sent from LM with the Marathon time (2:46) - also pictorial evidence (see avatar). 10K PB is 59 seconds slower than PMJ, but I have no record of this, sadly  . . .
    Anyway enough "anoraking" - ;)  need to make sandwiches and coffee and head off to Nottingham for the National XC . . . . .
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    Leslie - nice early start for your 10.6 miler!
    My GPS watch has measured my total distance run over the last few days with astonishing accuracy and for once it even agrees with mapmyrun ;) At least I'm catching up on some sleep!
  • Leslie HLeslie H ✭✭✭

    PMJ cracking 10k time

    Birch 75 min half is fantastic going

    Gul enjoy the extra ZZZ's

    Just over 8 this morn and 78 mile for the week.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    The ripped shoe is an interesting one. My last 2 pairs of Adidas, and 1 last Mizuno all split around the toe area where the shoe bends. Could this be built in obsolesce from the manufacturers. I have actually stitched a couple of pairs up.

    Before GPS I used to estimate distances. But when I got my first Garmin I indeed found I was running much slow than I thought and about a mile out on most runs. As for PB's I can't live with you guys.

    Parkrun yesterday was a windy affair with a wall of wind from mile 2. Therefore quite happy with 19:08. I followed up with 6 in the afternoon.18 today will get me over 50 on what has been a fairly poor week. 

     

  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    Don't do yourself down with 50 and a 19:xx parkrun being a poor week, OO.  With travel thrown into the mix, any sort of mileage above 40 is to be applauded.  

    Excellent miles, Leslie. I am almost salivating at the thought of doing that volume.  

    After much chauffeuring of MsEttes and MsEsq to sports fixtures and parties yesterday, I finally managed to squeeze in an hour on the turbo trainer.  Another Sufferfest, this one called The Way Out.  An Alpine pass over Italy which was rather beautiful.  Happy Sundays all.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    18.5 at 8:30 pace actually felt quite comfortable today. As you say MsE, it's not bad so I'll take it.

    Mine are in their 20's and I'm still on chauffeur duties most w/ends...I'd rather that and know they are safe. 

  • PhilipMJonesPhilipMJones ✭✭✭
    edited February 26
    MsE said:
     PMJ, it comes as no surprise that you ran at such an elite level.  Your insights into each run that you share on here are a lesson to me every time.


    I am definitely not elite, and never was. I run close to 80% WAVA and did the same (actually a bit worse) when I was young, and 80% WAVA for a youngish male (28) gives 16:08 5k, 33:34 10k, 55:29 10 mile and 74:01 half.  These are not spectacular results, and I'd say 90% is where you get to be sub-elite and elite 95% and over.
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Great info on stats gathering pre GPS world. Early running years for me saw me driving all routes to record the distance in my car mile-ometer. The GPS opened up the world of free running, making routes up as you go.

    Got through my 21 miler yesterday (we added an extra one on for fun) but it was tough going. Glute and hammy were better and still on the mend and the treatment I gave the Achilles over 3 days really paid off. However, the left ankle flared up big time, so much so that after 10 miles my mate insisted I wear his ankle support for the remainder of the run. It definitely helped.

    On the flat I could run with manageable pain put dropped kerb driveways and steep road cambers really bloomin' hurt. Have been icing and massaging it as it's a bit swollen but I should be able to train on it. I bought the same ankle support as my mate too.

    Got round with an average of 7.41 for the 21 miles. Pleased with that as it shows good fitness, indeed, my quickest ever training 20+ miler, only had one gel and half a bottle of water, so the body is fuelling efficiently.

    These injury niggles are annoying me now but I have been lucky on the past two campaigns, so I guess I was due a more challenging training period.
  • MinniMinni ✭✭✭
    February always seems to bring out the niggles.  GD get that ankle iced.  

    Gul sorry if you've been over this but do you know what is wrong with your hip?  I feel an expert in the hip area!

    OO I agree with the taxi service.  MsE I hate to say it but if you think your life is dedicated to supporting the youngsters lives at the moment wait till they are 16+!  Wouldn't have it any other way though. 

    So yesterday I rocked up to the Endurance Life Northumberland Coastal Trail Half.  Woke in the morning to storm force wind and rain and didn't even have an entry.  It would have been so easy to not bother but young Master Minni had planned to do a film of the run as part of an A level assignment, so I had little choice.    Thankfully the rain stopped before the start of the linear run and, guess what??  The wind was behind.  Miracle!! It was an enjoyable run, flat and on coastal trails with about 6 or so miles on sand.  This was all great until the last stretch of beach, which brought soft sand and a change of wind direction....for 3 miles.  :s Followed but the last push to the the finish in the Castle grounds.  We all know Castle's are built high on a rock....

    Its the first flat *race* I've done in ages, maybe a year or more and I certainly am not trained for it but I was pleased to finish in the top third overall, top 20 of women and 3rd in my age category.  Its a good place to start from.  :)
  • JoolskaJoolska ✭✭✭
    Hmm. Have been awol due to self pity. Sore achilles  for just over a week and man flu on top. 5 miles yesterday was 2 more than the achilles could handle. Grr.
  • SBD.SBD. ✭✭✭

    Speedy recovery Jools.

    Well done on the speedy half Minni - they can only get faster.

    You need to be careful with the ankle and other niggles GD - but excellent 21 miles nonetheless!

    Good LSR and PR given the travelling OO.

    Alpine passes over Italy - that sounds like far too much fun MsE

    A big week there Leslie.

    Tune-up race yesterday - 10K at the local PR - 20:41 for the solo first loop and then 20:03 for the race proper.  Expected to go a bit quicker than that and devastated to record my first ever 20:xx at a Park Run.   Still a good work out to add to the mix so will swiftly move on.

    Today's Long Run was twenty miles in windy conditions.  Thought I would be tired after yesterday but the legs felt pretty fresh on setting off so ended up with 7:20 m/m overall and 7:00 m/m for the last 7.5 miles.

    78 miles for the week to match Leslie.



  • Sounds like a good weekend's running there SBD - great finish on the long run.

    Wonderful to hear you're back up there Minni - sounds like a tough course but I bet you're glad you turned up.

    Get well soon vibes to Jools and "be wise" vibes to G-Dawg.

    MsE - ditto on the comments about constant chauffeuring. At least when they get to 17 they can drive, and if you're lucky (we were!) can do some of the chauffeuring for you.

    Decided not to go out for the hard long run that was in the schedule but met up with some mates and managed 13.5 hilly trail miles for a decent work out this morning. Only takes me to 37 for the week but it's better than I was hoping for at the start of it.
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