Sub 3h15



  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    PMJ - thanks - I did  have a couple . . .   
    and yes, good day at the Northern XC - although, dare I say it, Lorenzo may now be referring to Northern softies, as the men's race was just the 12K, compared to his 15 at the Southerns (I'm surprised at that distance - the National XC reduced from 9 miles to 7.5 several years back).  Well done to you and junior, Lorenzo - I hope the sprawl didn't adversely affect Lorenzito's race . . . .   
    GDawg - good going to bag 17.5 in muddy going ! 
    Gerard - sounds like a really enjoyable (if er, challenging) event ! nice 2nd placing there - well deserved cake  . . .    
    SBD - solid, and impressively paced, 21 there . Augurs well, surely ?    
    decided to exercise caution today, and record a zeroto settle for the 40.  180 for the first 4 weeks, so content with that.  
  • edited January 2018
    GM - missed your exploits while writing my last post. Pace sounds jolly impressive on a tough trial race and the silver medal is the icing on the cake. Think you'll be in good shape for the Nationals at this rate!

    Birch - I think that there was some talk about having a special 2 lap, rather than 3 lap, race for any northerners who were down yesterday! ;) Apparently there was a debate when the Nationals changed from 15K to 12K but the Southern AA decided to stick with their traditional distance.
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    Right, time to have a proper read back to see what some of my favourite runners ( whom I've yet to meet) have been up to. :smiley:
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Birch – Does your son log all his miles too? Amazing recording by you, I just wish I did too.

    SBD – Great LSR with a very strong finish.  

    PMJ – Sounds like a decent run, job done. What is the half course profile like?

    G-Dawg – Sounds like a very run there if a bit hardcore. Well deserved beerios!

    Nicko – MsE will be on soon telling you off re the Achilles.

    DT19 – Sounds positive, that’s great.

    Lorenzo – A very tidy week indeed. Re today, thanks, the course wasn’t too bad and it was only 6.4 miles but there were about 3 steep climbs on each lap and it was tough the 2nd time round. I’m not used to that sort of thing and I lost quite a bit of ground on the 2nd lap, made up some ground on the downhill parts and the bit of road we ran on but I did admittedly struggle on the steeper parts. Pics below. No.1 is a good one, grains of sand, all of us. No.2 is me  me at the top of the first climb.  

  • Birch said:
    PMJ - thanks - I did  have a couple . . .   
    and yes, good day at the Northern XC - although, dare I say it, Lorenzo may now be referring to Northern softies, as the men's race was just the 12K, compared to his 15 at the Southerns (I'm surprised at that distance - the National XC reduced from 9 miles to 7.5 several years back). 
    It does seem to have changed over the years. Many moons ago, when I was competitive at an open level, the national XC champs were the pinnacle of the XC year.  The Nationals were strictly 9 runners per athletics club and at the start line you formed up in club order, so each AC had one slot on the front line and the rest of the club lined up behind them. The county and regional XC races were both steps up to and qualifying races for the nationals, so the league races were 5 to 6 miles, country champs were 6 to 7 miles, regionals were about 8 and nationals were about 10 miles. 

    Now you can pay your £8 entry fee and stand on the starting line alongside the best of English running.  
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Great Pics, GM. looking strong and determined after conquering the hill/cliff.

    Recently, I've found that recovery runs on Sundays have set me up for the following week, so I bagged an easy 5k yesterday.

    Woke up this morning with a sore throat this morning. I'm hoping it's the last of the chesty bug making its way out. Usually a sore throat does mean a full-on cold for me, but we;ll see.

    I watched the Barkley Marathons docu film last night. Totally amazing! As runners, we probably appreciate their madness more than others but oh my word, total lunacy with some fantastic quirkiness thrown in. $1.60 to sign-up and you must bring a number plate from your area for the organiser to keep. Entry also includes supplying the organiser with something that he needs, so one year it was white shirts, another year he was out of socks. No gun or hooter to start the race. Runners wait at the start and then set off when the organiser lights a cigarette. Brilliant! 
  • Gul DarrGul Darr ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Birch - 32 years and over 62,000 miles is a mega achievement. Ron Hill would be proud.
    SBD - I'm sure Worthing is a very nice alternative to Barcelona! Isn't that where they had the mulit-storey car park marathon last year? My plans were to do the Peddars Way Ultra on Saturday just gone, but I couldn't make it :(  Excellent 21 miler by you.
    DT19 - sounds promising. Take it easy now!
    GD - mud and waist high water. Sounds like you earned that beer. Hope the sore throat doesn't amount to anything.
    Nick - hope the Achilles is okay.
    GM - 2nd place is still 2nd place! Excellent work. Good photo of you looking very focussed and determined.
    Lorenzo - great effort in the XC; sounds like the recovery week did some good.
    PMJ - nice session there; looking comfortable for sub 1:30.
    5 mile recovery run on Sunday for me to bring up 74 for the week. And a 12 mile MLR at a steady 7:38 m/m this morning.

  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭

    Nice pics, Gerard.

    PMJ- The older guys at my club bemoan the dumbing down of these sort of races and the general drop in standards.

    8 miles last night, furthest I have run in 3 weeks. Wasn't entirely fluid but nothing more than niggling tightness in the groin. Legs are a bit tired today though, lore like I ran 18 miles yesterday!

    SBD- That's quite a lot of fluid loss in January. I dread to think what it would be mid July!

  • @GerardM - I'll definitely take it easier if it's going to risk the fury of your Mrs!
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    great pics, Gerard - and a hell of a climb - the beach looks a long way down behind you ! 
     . .   no, my son doesn't record the miles as I do - he doesn't even possess a GPS device . My daughter is a bit more like me in that regard.    
    another fine week, Gul - and good start to this one, too  . . .
    another soggy run this morn (they all seem to be so at present) - 9 miles with my buddy, inc 3 x 1 mile (slow, but I'm definitely starting to feel stronger) . . . 
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭

    Gul - What a weekly total and a dozen to kick off the week too.

    Nicko - Haha, I was referring to our resident MsE here, she is the boss and knows what's she's talking about when it comes to these matters but is lovely really.

    DT19 - hopefully the body reacts well to that run.

    Birch - I did wonder. I also like the polar opposite like your son, I have a friend who is a V55 (he's 58) and he is still running very quick times, he has never worn a watch in his life when running. That was the first rise in the pic, it goes up and up from there and it certainly hurt the 2nd time round.

    G-Dawg - I hope that sore throat is nothing, would be cruel if you were to go down with illness again.

  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭

    Sorry for recent absence, work and travel have gone a bit crazy- don't they know I'm retiring!

    Some amazing stats Birch must be great to have the records and look back. I was doing much lower mileage in my early career.

    PMJ looks like you are limbering up nicely for the half- I'm sure you can meet your target. I think 1/2Ms are the hardest to prep for, neither one thing nor another.

    Gerard, that's a great podium and fab photos- hope you got a lush prize!

    I've been hanging in with 50 mile weeks but very unstructured. Decent parkrun at the weekend- 19.11 on a windy course. Slightly worried about a sore foot but still training through it. In other news Junior is back with light running after her foot stress fracture.

    I fancy the Haweswater 1/2M on 4th March, a week before Barca my first of 3 Maras this Spring-but just on pacing duties at Barca for a pal. Poacher- don't suppose you fancy Haweswater? And of course there is  small matter of the XC Nationals in Feb. Look forward to seeing some of you there.     


  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭
    Crikey, you disappear for a couple of weeks and it gets really busy.

    Welcome to all new posters, this excuse for a conversation has been going on for more than a decade and as Lorenzo says, there's always stg to learn.

    OO - loving Haweswater but not sure of movements.

    BB - nice work. Two in a weekend is hard and you have beaten my B2B PB by more than 11 minutes (bah!). Actually IMO 2x26.2 in 2 days is harder than, say, 50 in one day. You are in great form.

    Birch - I was in Sheff last week and struck as ever by how hilly it is as soon as soon as you get out of the centre. Tough place to train.

    Not much running here, been busy outdoors and starting to focus on bike sportives for the spring. Turns out that that bike fitness disappears every bit as fast as running fitness when one slacks off.

    Good luck all, it's worth some pain now for a decent spring mara.
  • OO54OO54 ✭✭✭
    Yes we had you down as a slacker Poacher ;) Couple of my pals staying at my place in Keswick on Saturday before driving across to Haweswater Sunday morning- beer may feature.... Spare bed if you need- just shout ;)
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    Welcome back OO and Poacher

    I've clearly lost the plot and gone and entered the rest of the series of trail races here. Must get a few runs in soon in the spikes though, so as not to disgrace myself at PH in a few weeks. This year for me has started with XC and trail races, something I usually avoid like the plague but doing something different for a change is fun and I've made lots of new friends, runners who run mega mileage but they are all very chilled about running and it's a totally different vibe to the road scene, although my heart is still on the road. I mean who doesn't want to try run as fast as possible. Trail running is great but a completely different thing. 
  • DT19 - just be careful now not to rush back too soon.
    Birch - more windswept than soggy round here recently. Pleased to hear all is going well.
    OO - good windy parkrun. hope the foot is nothing to worry about. Good news on jnr btw.
    Poacher - no marathons bagged during your absence?
    GM - glad you're enjoying the XC and trail racing; got to get your money's worth for those spikes.
    Pyramid session this morning. 400, 800, 1200, 1600 and back down. Started out okay but was struggling (and failed) to keep up the pace (was aiming for somewhere around 5:50m/m) for the 1200 and 1600 reps which resulted in a poor 2nd 800m, but had recovered well for a final 400m sprint. 11 miles in total.

  • Ok, got hit hard hard by the flu over the past week and not run for 7 days, was in bed for 6 days straight! Slowly starting to feel better but don't think I'll be ready to get back on the plan for a few days yet. Will still have 12 weeks till race day so hoping the good aerobic base I built over Oct-Jan stand me in good stead!
  • @GerardM thanks for the clarification - bit of a newbie around here obviously!

    Physio this morning, said the achilles is coming on OK; got some stuff to work on, including  "bum stuff"  :o - but given the go-ahead to get back into some training, so that's a good sign. Thinking that I need to limit to 3 a week for now, so probably just building the LSR back up; and see how I feel with a bit of intervals and tempo on the treadmill for now.

    @Gul Darr - that pyramid looks good - do you try and keep the same pace for each interval, or the fastest you can for each distance? (will not be doing that one to start off but good one to bag for the future)
  • GM - great pics. Looks a tough old hill there.

    PMJ - it's an interesting debate as to whether things are better now. From a purist perspective, I'd argue that people should have to qualify for the Nationals but as I'm a beneficiary of the system (i.e. an average runner able pay a few quid to line up with the elite) I'd better stay quiet.

    G-Dawg - Barkeley marathon: just bonkers

    Poacher - good to see you back here. Sounds like you've been keeping yourself busy

    Gul - always good to get a decent pyramid session in.

    RunningGas - easing back into things is definitely the best approach. No point in rushing everything just to make up a few days. Trust in yourself that the base you've got is strong.

    Like GM, I've got a bit carried away and as well as doing the Picnic (a super tough marathon involving multiple ascents and descents of Box Hill) at the start of July, I've taken advantage of a place in the Race to the King race (52 miles on the South Downs Way the weekend before) that a mate won't be able to use.  Add in the London to Brighton Bike Ride (which I'll either be doing in its entirety or cycling down to help at the end) and it's 3 consecutive weekends of endurance events. How did that happen?!  :#

    6.5 miles of commuting yesterday; 9 miles of commuting so far today plus whatever I decide to do to get back home this evening
  • DT19DT19 ✭✭✭
    I think the lack of qualification requirements is a positive distinguishing feature for running compared to any other major sport. The opportunity to line up with and tread the same ground as elites is great. 

    Another easy 8 miler tonight. Felt smoother the Sundays, though I was hungover then. May run again tomorrow to see how back to backs feel.

    Looking at my Garmin, I've run 70 miles in January. Fair bit short of what I had planned but equally not a complete loss of a month. Last January I only managed 116 as I had an operation on 21st under general. That also had a knock on effect into February's mileage. I'm hoping therefore that with a good Feb and the fact that month on month July-December 17 was higher mileage than 2016, that I can still salvage a performance out of London. 
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Plenty of time to kick on DT. Sounds like you have a good base.
    Good commuting again, Lorenzo.
    Again, a good base and a short taper should see you OK, RunningGas.
    I agree with trail sentiments, GM. No real time pressures although in races I do enjoy picking off those that have gone out too quick.  :)

    Last night I ditched my run. Had a sore throat all day, still a bit chesty and almost dozed off in the car home from work.

    Got out tonight, still not 100% but certainly better. Decided to give 8 miles a go. First mile was hard work (7.03) but it cleared the system and I was able to do the rest all under 7s to average 6.51. Tough at times but had good drive in the legs and had a quality session.
    Pleased with that. Despite not being completely lurgy free for January, I'll have done 185 miles by tomorrow night (5 miler planned) and got a bit quicker.

    Looking forward to being lurgy free in Feb and focussing on faster sessions.
  • GerardMGerardM ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    Turned 44 today, ran lots then had some wine and cake. It was a good day! :smile:
  • G-DawgG-Dawg ✭✭✭
    Yeeesssss!!! Textbook birthday skills. HB, GM!  B) 
  • DT19 said:
    I think the lack of qualification requirements is a positive distinguishing feature for running compared to any other major sport. The opportunity to line up with and tread the same ground as elites is great. 
    I see it both ways. Years ago, the demand to enter the nationals was so high it had to be limited and the selection process made sense. Over the years, the demand dropped and the attendance fell and I think it a good move to allow more open entry. It probably reflects the transition of running from a sport where you were a member of an AC to a more inclusive activity. 
  • RunningGas - oh no! Sounds like real flu rather than man flu, so it will take quite a while for your body to fully recover. Take it easy and hope you bounce back soon.
    Nick - good news from the physio. I was aiming for the same pace for all those intervals, which turned out to be a bit too ambitious.
    Lorenzo - I'm sure all those endurance events on consecutive weekends will be like water off a duck's back. I think that's the first time I've ever done a pyramid session.
    DT19 - hopefully you'll peak just at the right time.
    GD - good work for a lurgified month.
    GM - nice way to celebrate. Many happy returns.
    6 mile recovery run to end the month. 200 miles in total which is not bad considering I missed 8 days at the start of the month and also a weekend off in the middle.
  • Been a tough week so far:

    Sat - 28km in the most humid conditions yet. I started at 4am and it was 28C and 90%. There wasnt a breath of wind and even the Brisbane river was still like a mirror. Really struggled to get going and really worked up a very decent sweat quite quickly. First km was a pathetic 6:40 - but managed to gradually crack up the speed with the 2km at near race pace ~4:40/km. The weight test at the end showed I'd dropped 2kg - but that was after sitting and drinking a few glasses of water so I reckon I probably shed 3kg over the 3 hours period.

    Sun - Heat not quite so oppressive, but still nasty. Started with a shuffle but managed to gradually warm up into a proper jog before slowing down again at the end of my 12km recovery run.

    Tues - 5x1600m reps off 7:30, which meant <30seconds recovery between reps..tough set.

    Wed - First attempt at a run commute! 18km of gentle rolling hills through the suburbs ending with a very unpleasant final 2km along side a busy road with peak traffic and trucks with no footpath.. just a 2ft wide cycle lane beside the traffic. Still - was the first person to arrive at work at 6:50am.  Ended the day with a cycle commute back. My first attempt at that. I had a choice of battle peak traffic and trucks, or ride the pavement like a 10yr old..... so I chose the pavement! Thats all fine, but all those concealed driveways had me convinced I was going to get taken out by someone backing out unaware. Hills are not my forte on a bike too and with all the traffic lights that I stopped at the bike ended up being almost as slow as the run (1:40 v 1:20 for 18km).

    Anyway - January finished now with 312km run, thats my biggest january ever so despite the pace being slow with me struggling with weather more than I remember in the past, I suspect it'll all come good later when things cool down and I can find out how fast I can really run!
  • BirchBirch ✭✭✭
    OO - good to hear junior started her comeback  . .   
    Poacher - yes, even our "flat" runs would be seen as "undulating" by many (Gul) ?  
    Gerard - Happy Birthday for yesterday !!  what with the weekend race, you've had a good week on the cake :)    
    Gul - excellent pyramid session within the 11, and a good month also , considering your unusual missed days.   
    Lorenzo - "I've taken advantage of a place in the Race to the King race (52 miles on the South Downs Way "   - -     oxymoron of the year so far   ;)   
    DT19 - still 12 weeks to VLM - you can fit plenty into 10 weeks, then a nice fortnight taper . . . .      
    GDawg - splendid month, and well bagged 8 miler whilst lurgified  . . .   
    Dad - nice month too, and eventful few days to conclude !  well done. . .   
    15.5 this morn - out at Derwent (of Dambusters renown ) with my friend . Tired legs, but pleased with 205.5 for the month, inc 3 x 15.5  & a  17.5.   
  • PoacherPoacher ✭✭✭
    Thanks for that OO - very kind and very tempting.  Would a trip to The Old Keswickian be on the cards?

    Gul - still working hard, nice one

    DT - plenty of time to peak for the spring

    Lorenzo - trying to become the Madbark of the home counties with a schedule like that?

    GM - +1 for trails - hard to think of a really memorable road run whereas off road always throws up stg interesting. I'd guess that 30 or more of my maras have officially been trail races.

    Good stats by Birch, Dad and others

    C*ap stats by me, 100 run and 100 bike for the month although plenty of strenuous outdoor work which pays some bills but pretty much precludes running/biking for fun.  

    Chuffing cold out there again, it's snowing in the Peak District, is it white on your side too Birch?
  • MsEMsE ✭✭✭
    edited January 2018
    It's taken me the week since I last posted to read back!  In my defence, it was my 45th birthday that day and I was having a minor existential crisis.  All better now, sooooo:

    Birch -I feel so fortunate to have your experience to learn from here.  That is such an impressive running history.

    Poacher - I agree with you on the bike!  Add to that the fact it takes 1.5 times along to get the same cardiovascular benefit as running and this is probably why I only ever get on mine when I am injured.

    Gul - stacking up the mileage nicely.  You seem to really excel at churning out the MLRs.  Have you considered training specifically for HMs?  Much less faff over the build up and if you mess it up, you can try again quite soon!  So lots of chances to practice excelling in a race environment.

    GDawg - Glad you are over your lurgy but the new one coming on may be a sign you need to rein it in a bit on the running.  It sounds like you have a good coach to monitor you.

    OO - watch that foot. Mentioning it in the same paragraph as Jr's stress fracture makes me nervous.  I am glad she is back running again.

    Gerard - I have to take issue with your comment: "2nd place for me but to be honest there weren't that many fast guys so I was lucky to get 2nd". It's got nothing to do with luck and everything to do with persistent hard work on your part.  The trail races will definitely strengthen you and help develop proprioception for the road later in the year.  Just watch your cadence doesn't drop (although you can counteract this with some strides and drills).  Happy birthday for yesterday!  And no, it doesn't bother me one bit that you are a year younger than me  ;)

    DT - good luck with the build up. And remember, always better to be undertrained and arrive at the start line rather than overtrained and back on the bench.

    Nicko - others have said it but I will repeat it: don't overstress the achilles.  I had to take a year off with an achilles injury in 2012 and it was so frustrating.  Had I been more patient with it, I would have returned to running much sooner.  My top tips for you are:

    1. Understand what triggered it for you.  Your physio has identified weak glutes and I think most achilles or lower leg injuries can be traced back to glutes not pulling their weight.  Running is a posterior chain dominant activity (compared to biking which is focused more on quads) so the glutes play a major role.  If they are not up to the job e.g. because they are weak or you are suddenly increasing demands on them by doing too much volume too soon, or perhaps a speed session that was a bit aggressive for your level of fitness, then the impact is borne down below.  

    2. Drills are a brilliant way to get the neuromuscular connection going.  Incorporating strides into your runs, e.g. 8-10 sets of 100m/counting to 25, is an excellent way to practice faster running without overstressing your body.  If you had time off, drills are fabulous for getting that snappiness back too.

    3. Understand how your body works.  Your glutes need strengthening but will be of no use if they aren't firing correctly in sequence.  I went to a local PT who was obsessed with getting my lazy left glute stronger.  In the end I tweaked my knee by overloading the weighted squat when my movement pattern was not happening in the correct sequence.  He thought he could watch my form but the eye cannot see everything the body is doing.  If you can *feel* the glutes engage, eg hill repeats are a great way to fire them up, lunges or step ups, your perception is of far greater use in avoiding a repeat of the injury recurring.  If you don't manage this, chances are the achilles on the other side will go....

    Dad - that's a decent week in the heat you are experiencing.  Well done.

    Lorenzo - can't wait to see what you do in your ultras.  I see a podium on the horizon... 

    SBD - fitness is looking good this early in the campaign!  Any goal time in mind yet?

    Still building up here.  Ended up on 45 last week with a 13.25 miler @ av 7:45/mi. at the end. I'm running naked with my Garmin set to clock face only and focused on form and cadence as I build back.  5.5 weeks post injury.  
  • Jan 177.33 miles at 7:57 pace. Normal Jan total for a marathon campaign is over 200 and 2014 was 270 so a long way back from those totals.

    MsE, looking good on the comeback. Do you have plans for this year or is it take it how it goes and see? My feeling is that you'd be best off letting things happen in their own good time up until the summer and if you feel the need then pick something in the autumn rather than have any spring targets.
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