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ASICS Super Six: Peter (Sub-3:00)
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Yeah sounds like a good plan ruth, is it a good idea to use that eating plan for the sat that you put on before? The morining of a race or big run i usually eat porrige about an hour before which seems to do the trick as it the only thing that seems to fill me up. In the past i have also eaten flapjacks during marathons but must admit ive been a bit slack with my fueling stratogy of late as i havent seemed to crave food during runs like i used to. For instance i just took a few dried apricots and raisan round wih me for my 18 miler on sun but would obviously want to be more prepared on the big day.
Session went well tonight thanks steve despite the wind which was pretty stong. Rested up yestersay and the calf feels ok although both of them seemed pretty tight to be honest. Think this was still me recovering from sundays long run. Did the 4 x 1000 with the wind in 3:45's and the 4 x 1000 against in 4:00, 4:00. 4:10 & 3:45 for the last one where i put it all in. Even though the ones with the wind were obviously faster it felt asthough i was working harder into the wind than against. Your still resting up after sunday then i guess, do you reckon you'll be out tommorow?
Good the calf is holding up for you, rest probably helped. Can't find the Beetroot juice in the supermarkets, will have to look in some of the Health Food shops, but definitely up for giviing it a go. Training's going well. Did my third 20 miler last Sunday (was actually 21 cos I took a wrong turn!). Did 7 x 1000m reps too tonight and paces ranged from 3.44 - 3.54, so feeling good with how it's panning out.
Have you signed up for the Hastings Half, if so when is it?
Steve, with doing a half marathon as part of the marathon training build up, what would you say would be the right kind of long run the Sunday before?
I've tried Beetroot Juice - can't see I noticed a difference other than the resulting colouring but will resume if I ever start training properly again - hopefully will try tomorrow.
well done Peter and Knight Rider a good session for both of you - certainly well on a par with comfortable sub-3 potential.
Good that the calf held up but treat it with respect and ice as the training will put a strain on it in coming weeks and get more treatment if any doubts.
It wasn't too windy where my group did their session on the track but beside the sea is obviously more bracing.
KR
If you were trying to peak for a half marathon and didn't have a marathon, then an easy 15 would probably be the best run to do a week before. However, where the bigger picture is the marathon, I don't think you can compromise too much and so I woulld normally say by March, you need to do at least 18 the week before as 15 one week and half marathon the next week means two relatively low total consecutive weeks.
However, if you are really fit, you should be able to do a mini taper for the half after getting Tuesday's speed session in and do 3 or 4 days lower than normal to get a little life back in your legs for the half. Obviously while the marathon is the bigger picture, you don't want to run a realy bad half than tires you out and also reduces confidence.
Great to here that the calf isn't stopping you Pete and nice times on the reps. I ran on the grass track last night. Family stuff meant it wasn't until 9:30pm before I got going but the lights stayed on until 10:30pm and because of the bright moon instead of the glaring lights it was actually slightly easier to see the puddles when the lights went out. I had intended 14 but started bonking at about 9 (probably because it had been 8 hours since I had last eaten) so left it at just under 12. On arriving home I checked my plan and realised that I had mixed up two days and should have actually only done 9, Doh! My shin although slightly tender today was absolutely fine last night which is the most important thing for me at the moment. I think that I'll probably be running there for the next couple of weeks.
KR - Nice reps too. Are you still targeting 3:15? I remember thinking on the selection day that you were capable of running a good bit faster than that (not least because you were about a half a lap ahead of me on the 5k TT!).
Sounds like a good session KR and seems like your coming on well. Are you following the same scedule as me i take it? Havent signed up for another half as yet but its def on the to do list!
Glad the grass track worked well Clearly and was goning to say 14 seemed a bit step after sunday. Shame the irish couldnt win the rugby although it was a lot closer than i thought. We'll beat them in 2 weeks time for you dont worry!
Right tonights 10 mile @ 7:30 paced session, where to start! Has to be one of the most eventfull runs ive ever done. Not because i suddenly turned into paula radcliffe and started churning out sub 5 min miles but beacuse in the little over an hour i was on the road i manged to compleely stack it, falling over infront of some poor women (who politely pretended not to see me but i knew she was laughing inside). After getting up and dusting myself off i then nearly got run over by a blue nissan when crossing the road, although i think it was 90% my fault, opps! Last but not least as 10 miles hit the clock i saw a pet rabbit wondering around outside someones house so helped it back under the fence to complete my fairy tale of a outing.
Anyway dispite all the distactions i came in at 1:10:45 which i know may have been pushing to hard. In my defence though i felt ok and was just in one of those moods where you want to take it out on the road. Calf felt fine just a little tight but im just off the foam roller and about to get the precortionary (sorry i cant spell, uve probably noticed that by now) peas out the freezer!
Yes peter your running is better than your spelling!
Good interesting run today and even the falling, near car collisions, rabbitty interventions couldn't slow you!
You definitely have the fitness, the speed, the speed endurance and the powers of recovery, the only potential spanner is the calf and you seem to have that in check.
I managed 13 at 7:30s today
Thanks steve yeah hopefully it will be ok and they dont have rabbits in france do they?!! If only the spell check button here worked and you'd never know! Glad you managed a long run today seems like your still manageing to put in some good runs.
Just people crossing the road with buggies and baguettes Pete!
I have to confess to laughing at your account of your run
*touches wood*
Still get a bit of a sore patch in the bum sometimes when running but it isn't restricting me which is the important thing. I'm being very good about doing my exercises and can see how they help if I'm feeling stiff in the morning. Seeing the physio for a review on 28th Feb which is good timing as my claim year with HSA restarts on 1st March!
Anyone would think you wer on drugs seeing rabbits at the end of a run Pete! Were your splits even or did you do this as a progressive run? Kind of following the sub 3.15 schedule with a few tweaks here and there, but following the sub 3 to see the difference between the two .I suppose one of the differences is the midweek long run. Did 13.1 miles tonight with the first 12 done as a progressive run. Starting off at 8.18 pace and then gradually increasing the speed in 3 mile chunks, so the last 3 were 7.12 ish pace then a 1.1 mile warm down.
Hi Clearly - yes still targeting sub 3.15 and following how Pete & MartinH get on with their sub 3 quest. Having seen Pete in action at the SSX bootcamp, I know he was a great choice to do justice for this competition.
very good running Knight Rider - checking my 13M splits they were 8:12, 7:40, 7:35, 7:34, 7:31, 7:50, 7:45, 7:24, 7:09, 7:08, 7:18, 7:15, 7:31 so I averaged 7:12 too for miles 9-11.
I bet the rabbit won't be there on Thursday - as they say Hare today, gone tomorrow - I know that's not particularly bunny....
Pete,try some nerve stretches to help release your calf before you stretch. Leg in the air and pull foot down 3x20.
We catch up in a couple of weeks so let me know if gets tighter before then.
Sarah
Nice session there Pete.
Sarah - I tend to get tightness in my right calf which I manage inbetween sports massages. Can you explain how to do the nerve strateches in more detail - they may be something I should try?
Still here yes lye on you back and put one leg straight in air, then with a towel or belt pull the foot towards you to mobilise the sciaitc nerve running down the back of the calf into the foot.
This can be done actively ie without a belt just using the foot. Repeat 3x20.
Good to try and do some lumbar rotations to loosen lower back first, lye on back and bring one knee up the take it over to the other side over the other leg.
Hope that helps.
Steve, I'm away tomorrow for a week skiing!
Sarah
Pete - keep up the good work mate.
Steve - Bit of a hypothetical question and longwinded but here goes....I've had a bit of a blip recently due to a fatigue related condition I get sometimes which is a result of viral fatigue I had a few summers ago, self inflicted this time I might add(burning candle at both ends
). Anyway thankfully once I'm back to it normally which I seem to be now it doesn't linger or inhibit me at all and I can return to normal mileage very quickly.
Just curious as to how long the endurance gained over months or successive marathon campaigns "stays" for want of a better word in the legs. I remember reading a comment by Liz Yelling that you can do nothing for 10 days and you won't detrain but curious about how long endurance stays with you(fat burning, mitochondria numbers etc). I'm in unchartered territory even though this is my 7th marathon in that I'm running London off two successive campaigns (London last year - 3.00.31 and Amsterdam in October - 2.58.34).
My initial 3 weeks for London were 52, 59 and 60 miles with long runs of 16.18 & 20 miles but then I cut mileage to 42, 32 and 11 miles last week while run down with no long runs to allow for rest but this week is going well again and should close the week out at about 58 and with a 20 and look to push on from next week.
With the time remaing I'm looking at another 5 x 20+ milers(which would give me x6), Fleet half + some miles and a 16-18 two weeks out and averaging around 60-65mpw topping out at 75 as per Amsterdam. Do you think given the consistency with the last couple of marathon campaigns I'd still be able to peak for a good performance in London with the time remaining (8weeks after this one)? I'm looking at autumn for a really fast time and emphasis at London will be enjoyment but I'll still look for a pb. I feel pretty confident about where I can get my conditioning but just thought I'd get your opinion as I'm one for lots of analysis and you're the expert! I guess thats two questions, a general question about endurance and then related to my situation.
Longwinded but I kind of had to set the scene. lol Thanks for your time as always.
Cheers, Rob
RSalter
I think how much endurance stays with you is dependant on many factors - years run, volume of past campaign, time off etc.
However, with your previous background, the initial good start to this year, the relative small time off and the time left before the marathon, I don't think you will notice too much difference.
Stay injury free, keep reasonably healthy and train sensibly hard, then a PB is still very much on the cards.
I would do a carb load day on Saturday just to check volume is okay for you to manage, how you feel the next day (although realize you won't have the taper). You seem to be able to run with food in your stomach with little problems as this much food before is quite alot and not sure you will manage this in Paris with logistics (time to get from hotel to race start etc). If race starts at 10am you will need to think about having porridge at hotel before you leave for race then perhaps a snack. I
would suggest on any long runs try two eating strategies - using your dried fruit (but plan when you are having these rather than haphazard but also try gels/chews alone so you are having around 50g of carbs per hour and see which ones suits you better). You really should start thinking about fuelling your race as you are doing all this training so would seem a shame to be hit or miss approach on the fuel side.
I see some comments on cherry juice this is mainly used as mentioned for muscle soreness, shown to reduce circulating inflammatory markers but should remember most studies are subjective about pain and not shown to improve performance. Beet juice on the other hand has been shown to improve performance (shown to play role in blood flow. muscular contraction & glucose uptake) and it is the nitrates that is the key to this, found in cured meats and most veggies including beetroot (so eat your vegetables!).. You would really need to practice using this as some athletes I know have problems with stomach when used this. I would suggest get the basics right before adding this. I know a couple of people who use this and are doing remarkably well in their sport., research not conclusive yet but looks good so far in the few papers that have been published. Happy training
Lets hope your training advice is better than your jokes steve
! Glad the hamstrings not holding you back to much Bridget and the odd pain in the bum is just an inevitable part of life i find! Thanks KR seems like if you keep up your training you'll be well inside 3:15, keep us up to date with how its going and with your juice hunt.
Thanks Sarah ive been doing that strech and seems to be doing the trick, calf is still a bit tight but feeling an improvement. Enjoy your sking hol.
Todays session didnt involve any rabbits although it did involve getting chased up a hill by a dog. To be fair to it it pretty much chased me the hold way up and was probably my quickest rep, as i didnt fancy adding a dog bite to my interesting week on the roads. Today for my hill session i went out on my own as finished work a bit early and wanted to make the most of any daylight left. Did a 1 mile warm up the 15 x 1 min hill reps, putting in about 85% on way up and taking it easy on way down. Most reps came out at 1 min with a few at 55secs and a couple at 1:05. I managed to do a 50 sec last rap with thriller on the ipod to help me up along the way. Also put a 1 mile recovery run back home.
Felt like a really good session i like my hills, although you do get a few funny looks from people who see you head past and then keeping coming back fo more.
Tonight was my very first hill session Pete and to my surprise I found I enjoyed it. Not sure I'd have had anything left to outrun a dog though
Pete - That sounded like a good consistant session. Bet it was tough even tough they were only 1 minute reps. Got some “Beet It” Organic Beet root juice today. Found it hidden away in Morrisons, so will start using it tomorrow and see how it goes. Ruth, if I do most of my training at night, what time of day would be the best time to drink the Beet root juice to get the benefit from it? During the day / 1 hour before running / or afterwards?
Edited to say - the small dogs are the worse as they are easier to trip over!
well done on the session - looks you run it well and outpaced that greyhound.
KR I've had the Beet it - I used to take it half a hour after running so would be interested in what Ruth recommends.
It's the extending leads that are the absolute pits!
Does the beetroot juice taste like beetroot? I think I prefer the sound of cherry even with the lack of evidence for it.