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ASICS Super Six: Peter (Sub-3:00)
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Cheers, much appreciated
Im back! sorry for my brief disapperance!
Hey Alex yeah its going well thanks still sinking in that i get to call myself a super sixer. Hows your training and things going, u looking forward to birmingham (silly question i know)?
Sadly i missed yesterdays session (Sorry Steve), was just one of those rare days where the running had to giveway to other things. Went out today for my 9 miles at 8min pace and fought my natural urge to want to get faster and completed it bang on 1:12. Mixed it up a bit and ran round a local 1 mile grass course to make a change from concrete, dont think my trainers appriciated it though, i swear they used to be white!!!
Hope all well. No problem in having the odd day off (I actually missed both the Sunday and Tuesday session due to foot but did manage a steady 11 today.)
Well done on the run today and showing restraint. I would be tempted to maybe do the missed Tuesday session on Thursday as that session is maybe more important but up to you to what you feel most comfortable doing.
Yes, that was the thought behind only doing a 1 mile warm-up before intervals.
Wobbled - I quite like a progressive mid-week/2nd long run - I sometimes do it the day before my long run. Starting with 5 very easy, 5 harder, 5 easy, or 5 easy, 3 steady, 4 hard, 3 steady/easy. I think there's lots of ways of mixing the paces on this run. It's the one run a week I normally find hard to do in the mid-week unless it's not a work day, so the more mixing of paces the more fun it becomes.
Wobbled
the key endurance session is the Sunday but you need some type of endurance run midweek. Obvously the schedule tries to also include speed and also a marathon or tempo type effort.
Some people find the Wed/Thurs quite tough as a pairing so if short of time they could be combined and done on the Thursday with the wed total mileage but the speed part of Thursday within it and a shorter run or rest on the Wednesday.
However if you can do both, Wednesday is a time on feet run, recovering from the day before ut building up endurance and then the Thursday is speed endurance to help cruising speed and improve lactate threshold and confience on pacing etc
Pete
Foot was bearable on run and actually bot better as went on but need more treatment, thanks
Hilly
any form of faster running is good but I think you need to be careful over the volume and intensity the day before a long run
Did tuesdays session today, as steve suggested, as i missed it the other day. Took all your advice on boared and eased my way into the session. Did 1 mile plus warm up with strides, active streches etc and got the foam roller out after on the ITB's. Really trying to make an effort to improve my flexibility which i know is a real weakness and somethin that i get reminded about whenever i have a sports massage a take a trip to the physio.
Todays session was:
Tue 1M jog, then 7 x 1000m at 10K speed (or 4 mins) with 200m (1-min) jog recoveries, then 1M jog
Started with the first 2 sets at 4:15 pace the alternated between 4 and 4:15 mins depending on whether i was heading into or with the wind. It was pretty stong down on the seafront so felt i was putting in the same effort on both. I must admit i did 4 with the wind and 3 without but youve got to give yourself some plesures
!
Steve - could you give me some mid-week run advice please ? I am hiding my weekday running miles into a running commute 2 or 3 days a week this campaign (plus a weekend LSR), but am wondering how best to approach the midweek endurance run. The minimum distance I can run is 5M, the maximum is unlimited (I just need to get up earlier). I was going to increase up to something like a 12M and 5M commute on a Wednesday but wondered what your thoughts were, is something like 8 and 8 better ? or 10 and 5 or 14 and 5 ? Should one run be longer or should they both be similar length to achieve maximum gains.
Also, what do you consider optimal distances for the mid-week (single) run ? I've done 16 or 17M before but is running this far counter productive ? does there come a point where the distance is too far and becomes detrimental ?
well done Peter - it has been very windy today and good you have completed the session - were you doing an exact 1000m or just an estimate?
TR
as long as you don't get excessively tired I guess there is no problem in running 16 miles, but you will find it hard if you do an even longer run at the weekend.
Personally I think a 5 and 12 is probably better than the other way around - the 5 being more of a warm up. if you do the 12 first, then you could be stiff and tired before you even start the 5 and be more prone to injury. I do think you get a better training effect than 2 8s - the longer the run, the more endurance you will build up. Doing two equal runs imay give you the same mileage total but be less effective in preparing your body to run 26 miles.
Due to work tiredness I often end up doing the MLR and LSR on consecutive days on the weekend - a 15m with 10m uptempo in the middle then a time on feet 20+ on Sunday. Having done it for a while, my body has become used to it. That takes the pressure off fitting one in during the week, but if I do have a lighter day at work I do try to fit in a 2nd MLR by doing some miles before a club run then making up the rest with mates.
With TR working, I can see how 12 in the morning and 5 in the evening might work better for him. I suppose it depends on other commitments and our natural body clocks.
BR
Your double header training at weekend is not something I would reccommend but it obviously works for you and yes everyone has to fit in what is best for them with work, life and what training they can do and stay injury free and build speed and stamina.
Ended up doing the long run today as was away in the bright lights of london for the weekend and didnt manage to get back in time to fit it in. Long run this week was:
15M in approx 1:52 (First 7M easy in 56 mins, last 8M at marathon pace in approx 55 mins)
It was the first time ive done a run like that before where the speed increases that much in the second half. Set off at 8 min mile pace and it felt pretty slow (which is a good sign
). Beginning to know now within myself what slow, steady, and fast feel like and gives me a good indication of what i should be feeling when. Turned through 7 miles at 56:15 and then sped things up. Initially struggled to get down to - 7 min miles and did the first couple in about 7:15. Then felt i could kick on a bit and went through the rest in just under the 7 min mark, coming in at 55:30 for that 8 mile section. Altogether was a good run but aware that the 2 days rest before hand may have helped in feeling fresher than normal for a weekend long session.
Steve has advised me to move everything back a day this week and just miss out saturday to componsate for missing sun. 4 weeks in now its flying along!
Thanks steve glad you managed to get in a long run with your foot aswell. I really hope come marathon day it all comes together. Theve send me the possible half marathons i can choose from.
I know we talked about the watford half in 3 weeks so do you reckon that would be the best one for me to do or one later in the scedule?
Did them this morning before work...have to do some serious soul searching at 5am on a crisp tuesday january morning!!...calfs are burning now!
Hi Pete - ia this supposed to be a list - it's just a bit of gobblegegook?
I'm still waiting for “the list” to be sent to me - can you copy and paste it in here?
Sounds like a good 15 mile run yesterday and good that the sub 7's felt easy!
Sounds good bridget would be good if a few of us did it. Hey KR dont know why it didnt show up but the other dates are the fleet half on the 20th March or the Wilmslow Half on 27/3. Sub 7's certainly didnt feel easy, i wish
, it was the 8 min section that was slightly easyier. Hows your training going?
Did my 5 mile recovery run today at about 8:10 min pace. The day after the long run seems to be the day the little niggles come out like the odd tight calf and glutes so try to make sure i dont push it.
Steve - A question for you if I may. After running a bit more regular, I trained for and ran 2 marathons last year, Brighton in April (3:05) and Abingdon in October (2:59). I'm now training for London and hoping to knock a few more minutes (10 would be nice) off the PB. I seem to have good endurance but poor natural speed - so PBs of 38:0x for 10K and 1:23 for the HM run during the Brighton training.
One of the patterns that seems to be emerging is that, as I train more, my pace/effort correlation is getting better, but I'm struggling to push the effort up to the required level on quality sessions. For example, I ran 18 miles on Sunday with the last 10 miles at 6:40 m/m pace at a heart rate of just below marathon effort (so a similar session to Peter's) - this felt hard but comfortable. However, when I did a 5 mile tempo session last week, I couldn't run faster than 6:40 m/m pace yet the heart rate was only fractionally higher than marathon effort rather than close to 10K effort.
Is this pattern just part of continued marathon training or should I be doing something different to ensure I'm getting the optimal training benefit from the high quality sessions?
SBD
It seems your stamina is better than your endurance but with a 1:23 half, your speed endurance is fine.
It would seem that you are getting fitter judging by the comparison of the sessions but maybe it was just an off day on the shorter run as you have run a 10k with sub 6:10s.
If your marathon and half marathon speeds are ok, then you probably don't need to change too much but I would work on doing some running each week where you go quicker than 10k pace (ie 90 second 400m efforts)
Peter - running that fast isn't easy in training when you are already tired but you did it and wasn't totally flat out.
Thanks Steve. At the moment I incorporate strides (eg 10 sets of 100m) in to the weekly schedule which helps remind the legs what faster paces should feel like. Do you think sets of 400m, runs as reps with full recoveries, would work better?
Good recovery run there Peter.
Strides have their advantages in some ways as you can focus on speed in short bursts in straight lines without building up too much fatigue - Once a week I used to do a variation of around 8 x 150 with long recovery where I would start reasonably gentle and get quicker on each rep and try and hit near maximum speed on around the 6th or 7th. They started off as strides but became close to sprints but that wasn't really for my marathons but my other races so wouldn't reccommend those to prospective inexperienced marathoners.
However, while srtrides remind the body of speed, they are not fully connected with the way you normally need the speed which is under some stress of being tired ie in races or speed endurance work and therefore 400m reps will be building some endurance so perhaps alternate reps and strides.
Good recovery run Peter