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Riots...
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1. The Army doesn't as a rule like being involved in civil disorder opps. The guys in frontline infantry units are trained to use maximum aggression. When taken out of that role mistakes happen and things tend to get out of hand (I speak with two tours of Northern Ireland in mind... though 30 years ago)
2. The lads from the army tend to come from the same backgrounds as the rioters and their families live on the same streets- so suppose we have a 'Bloody Sunday' type situation in say Lewisham and a squaddie runs amok with a high velocity rifle and takes out 20 protesters and half a dozen innocent bystanders - how long before the family's of soldiers are targeted by friends of friends. Then you create a 'just war' type situation were squaddies are seen as the enemy by some and become legitimate targets.
3. Most of the lads currently serving have had combat experience in War zones like Afghanistan, Iraq etc - they'll be hyped to to the nines. You can't take guys away from a hot war and put them into a situation were they'll be expected to show restraint - it just doesn't work out.
Nah, it's a police job at the moment - sending the army in would be a huge mistake and very much a last resort.
Well said, Mr Blaze.
It says it all really when we're having to defend the idea of upholding law and order and protecting peoples' lives and property.
And I'm going to bed now before I start getting really angry.
Nite nite folks and let's hope tomorrow is a better day xx
I agree. Although for the first time since I can remember I think the conditions "could" lead to the army being called in. Or curfews and armed police patrols.
If anyone died in those fires in Croydon there'll be the devil to pay.
Ok, but tell me you want the Army to actually do? I want this to stop now and for the c**ts to get a shoing from the Police and spend some time banged up, but I don't see how sending in the Army will help with any of that.
JB - I agree. I want the Police to have the legal power and actual man power to be able to deal with this.
KK - I'm not making light of it.
And the vast majority of people manage to do neither.
KK, sorry if my first few posts were flippant. I'm pretty close to it and worried, so I think I'm entitled to make a few jokes if that makes me feel better. (The first video did cheer me up when I found it by accident!)
I don't think there's any 'excuse' for the sheer stupidity of what's happening. But I'm with Ken, we have to really deal with the real problems this has come out of. Yes, those directly involved should be punished, but the reasons need dealing with too.
(Ken on news 24 now)
My point is everyone is an opportunist at heart, its in our nature because of the way the societyy we live in works. In some ways its great - its lead to innovation and a greater average standard of living. But in others it leads to criminality.
At the end of the day you can talk all you want about morals and how you abide by your moral standards but I can almost certainly guaruntee you contradict your own morals at some point. In doing that, personally you lose all right to insult and degrade people on moral grounds. Maybe their greater desperation has lead to a greater breaking of their own morals, you can't say your contradiction is ok but theirs is not
Not surprising in the sense that many of those rioting just don't buy into our idea of a civil society. For many they'e spent their entire lives being excluded and deliberately excluding themselves from it - in a very real sense they have absolutely nothing to lose from violent disorder... and plenty to gain. It's wrong - but it's true.
SSP - I've not seen anyone on this thread who disagrees with you - why get angry? Or are you just looking for something to get angry about?
I'd argue that if you send the Army in you politicise these riots and in some sense make them legitimate in some people's eyes- and believe me; that's the last thing you want to do.
BBH when you refer to people as scum you are quite blatantly not thinking of them as your equal and thats what I took issue with.
edit: oh and the torrent of abuse suggests my judgement was spot on.
While I have no doults that this would still be an issue under a labour government. I lot of the rioters last year in London in the student protests wasn't the uni students but kids younger than them with no future and no job.
The rioting tonight is opportunistic as apposed to political by people who feel they have nothing to lose by getting banged up and will nether be able to get a mortgage, job etc... There is more than one course or reason for whats happening and there is no simplified version of whats happening but until we can work out who people do these things in a recession it will just happen again.
The police response hasn't been the best and a lot of folks have looked the other way instead of facing that there friend /son/ neighbour or whatever has nicked some shoe's and destroyed someones life and home. As for letting the army in spot on corth for your comments. Also you can be ever a solider or a policeman you can't be both and to say the army could is both selling them short, exstreamly unfair and possibly leading to more deaths as you send men into a sitution they havn't ben trained for and are not equiped for. Your also forgetting that they are a bit busy at the moment and overstretched in Afghanistan.
Cake, if they feel disempowered or whatever is the buzz word these days, they can always march on parliament in peaceful protest.
Or, heaven forfend, go to the polling station and vote.
Looting Foot Locker is kidding no-one on what their real motives are.
No, I haven't forgotten they are a bit stretched in Afghanistan!
Why are people taliking to me like I'm a total numpty? According to corinth Im looking for something to get angry about and according to you I haven't noticed the army are a bit busy elsewhere. FFS does anyone else want to patronise me tonight?
I don't see the police exactly awash with numbers either, which is why they need some help.
edited for spelling
My bad
x
Thank you x
Can I please get some kip now?
Damn, you saw it before I had chance to edit
Keep it to yourself, or I'll tell everyone you're wearing a wig
To be fair they looted JD sports as well.
Primark's gone in Brum...
If they get in the Bullring, Selfridges and the Apple Store are toast.
Just a couple of of points:
It's a civilian matter full stop - don't get yourself vexed by thinking of the army because if thathappens before u know it they will be at football matches and half marathons!
Summer = riots. Kids bored too much daylight too many toys and too much talk on social media. Bradford had it 10 yrs ago.
The bonds of society have been successive weakened as governments have compromised everywhere when it comes to dealing with kids, from schools to local services to parents. Kids feel they have rights but no responsibilities.
Finally - I think we all have to look at our own moral and social failing here. We like to think we live in a democracy but how many people vote. Then those that do vote are too scared of pc bullies to actually say to those that didn't that the dont get a say!
Time for liberals to harden up and come down tough on our failed politicians and our failed citizens.
Just a thought.
For some reason this all reminds me of an Armando Iannucci sketch where the human race receives a message from watching aliens, one word, "c*nts".
It time to kill all the mobile signals for a couple of days its clear that people are using social network sites to organise distrubances. Many of the yoff would be unable to cope plus it would stop the images circulating the world.
The Human rights Act doesn't give people the right to riot and nobody has a right to damage destroy and steal.
Time for a direct policing with no apologies