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HADD training plan
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Bluenose... I'm still here, but with only a 3 miler under my belt today, I haven't got much to report!
Actually, I am one of those in the final throes of marathon prep - 4 miles tomorrow and then a few days of eating and 'visualising' before I 'get it on' for real in Rome on Sunday morning. My problem now is what pace to run at. I vacilate between planning to take it safe and stick at my 70-75% pace, which should cause me little or no problems over 26.2 miles and would deliver a 4:20ish time... or whether to trust my HADD training and crank up the HR to 83-85% and see what happens. Based on my recent HM time, I should be closer to 4:10 hrs, but I am really concerned at overcooking it on my first marathon outing surrounded by 000's of people in predicted 18degC of heat over lots of cobbles (bloody Romans...) - problem is I have no experience to base my decision on.
Ho-hum...
Brian, looked at that link.... Bit too severer for me... Over the last four month's I've knocked 3mins off my 10k to 6.33 av mile pace, 48sec off parkrun to av 6.16 mp and 1.10 off club 5k time trial.... And all acheived by going no faster than 7.13 mp in training....
It's funny that when somethings working well, we're still not happy with it... Cheers for the link, and I may revisit it in May if thing's have stopped progressing....
L33 / Bluenose - can't remember if i read in the original HADD document or somewhere else, but isn't the beauty of using HADD the fact that it's an absolute measure of how hard the heart is working, so whatever the conditions are, you run to HR. If conditions are unfavourable ( eg hotter than your normal running conditions ) you'll just run at a relatively slower pace for a given HR ?
Your heart doesn't know what the weather conditions are ....
I'm not trying to talk you into running faster L33, just food for thought.
AND GOOD LUCK ON SUNDAY
Brian - i'm enjoying it but just like to know my current pace for something to benchmark against in a month or so.
One thing i have done though is turned off my max HR alert on my Garmin. It was starting to stress me out up hills which is enough to raise the HR further !! And on my last run i didn't look at the Garmin at all until i finished and ran to 71%.
Spen71 - don't rush back into running big distances (even if they are slow) or running fast sessions. Racing a marathon stresses the body and requires recovery. I spent 3-4 months out after my October marathon as a result of not recovering fully.
Bluenose - you can really improve your 5K and 10K times just by improving your aerobic base (as you've proved!) but you'll never reach your full potential unless you include some "quality" on top of that base.
Laueate - I was running regular 10M sessions at 83% maxHR before my marathon last year but I would never have attempted that in the race. I ended up running the first half at about 78% and then (foolishly) pushed up to about 85% due to over-confidence. I slowed at 20M and died at 23M ... the last 3M were very tough and I ended up with 3:32. If I was doing it again, I'd stick with 75% until halfway ... I'd only consider 80+% once I'd passed 20M.
So, I clocked up 43M last week and hope to do something similar again this week. Still at at the "building to 50 mpw" stage, so no sub-LT sessions yet. I might nip down to the Bradford 10K on 25th - not expecting anything fast but I've done it the last 3 years and it woudl be nice to take part.
Mace, this is taken from the link.
http://www.humankinetics.com/excerpts/excerpts/knowing-what-affects-your-heart-rate-provides-valuable-information
An extremely important factor affecting exercise heart rate is temperature. Warmer temperatures cause the heart to beat faster and place considerable strain on the body. Simply put, when it is hot, the body must move more blood to the skin to cool it while also maintaining blood flow to the muscles. The only way to do both of these things is to increase overall blood flow, which means that the heart must beat faster.
I know what your saying, in that, if your aiming at a certain HR then, no matter what the condition's are, you should be able to run at it cause you've trained at it... As L33 mention its only going to be 18 degree's so nothing to drastic... Hasn't the last two London Marathon's been hotter?
They have a target pace in mind, and come what may (weather, or how they feel on the day) they stick to the target pace.
The conditions may demand that some adjustment is required, but they do not adjust and 99% of these people will crash and burn.
If you have heart rates in mind, and it turns out warmer than anticipated, the pace adjusts itself.
My best position at london came in 2007, when I ran to hr in warm conditions, passing 100s of runners in the 2nd half of the race.
Dr Dan, cheers for advice, agree with having to add speed into training... But curious to what I'll acheive on this training path....
Good Luck with your own training...
Hi folks,
Just popping back in after my first week - thanks for the initial encouragement Spen71. I did manage 5 sessions of 1hr plus a bit - all different routes so slightly different paces as the gradients impact somewhat. I had one day where I just couldn't keep the HR down, but otherwise it's been ok. I clocked up 32 miles (my highest week's mileage in 3 years of record keeping) and then did a 10k in my club's winter league on Sunday, so I'm not planning to do much more this week. However, I do have a window for a longer run on Sunday, so I may try 90minutes - I think I'll have to work up to 2 hours. I'm also planning to look at my race times to see where my disconnect is - I like the theory stuff!
I don't expect to see massive improvements yet, but I am pleased that I'm sticking to it and, hopefully it's all 'in the bank' benefits for the future.
Cheers, Impish
Have come to the conclusion (after a few tests) that I probably need to cut out alcohol all together. As mentioned previously, two weeks ago I was managing 50miles per week, 11:30min miles @138 (72%).
Now I'm at 12:15min miles @139!!! I've gone backwards. Annoyingly. The only difference is that, previously, I was abstaining from alcohol entirely but for the past week or so I've had a drink with my evening meal. On average, one large glass of red wine and one bottle of beer (330ml) per night.
My reckoning is that this is what has pushed up the HR... I can't tell you how annoying it is
From Monday I shall abstain again completely (can't do it this week, I have opened a nice little Chilean) and by the end of next week I'd hope to be back to 11:30min miles @ 70% (heading towards the goal of 10m/m by May).
Has anybody else cut out alcohol ENTIRELY and seen improvements to warrant it? I haven't been in a pub for months and didn't think the odd drink hurt - especially in such small quantities - maybe it does.
Cheers gents.
I haven't had a drink so far this year ... but I don't think it has any effect on HR when running.
Gus... Have you tested your resting HR?... A couple of weeks back you were doing 12.50 mp @ 138HR, doing 12.15 mp now, would be the steady improvement I would expect... The 11.30 mp was probaly one of those peak period's that althlete's get, and we get lulled into thinking we've become world beaters over night... But don't worry it'll come....
Some of my best race's have been when I was drunk.... Good old school days!!!!!
Chaps... great advice, as ever! I shall forget worrying about time and run to HR - not much point worshiping the great god BPM for 16 weeks and then becoming a born-again pace-man on race day! I shall set off at my HADD 75% pace see how I feel at the half and 20 mile point and, if appropriate, edge it up toward 80/85%.
Gus - I'm with Brian; if I didn't run I couldn't drink (half as much as I do...) coz I'd get fat and unhealthy
. I reckon your problem lies elsewhere. Actually, my experience over the last 16 weeks is that you haven't necessarily got a problem, you just need to accept that progress in this programme is not linear! I have had a number of occasions with HADD when I wondered what was going on - I stuck with it and it all came good in the end (... even today, on my last 4 mile outing before the marathon, I was noticeably slower than I had been at the weekend for the same 70% effort - I put it down to haveing had a pretty stressful morning in the office. I'm certainly not worried about it).
Standby for a race report early next week - thanks for the good luck messages.
Ciao!
Just completed 8m at 11:39min miles @138 (72%) which means my alcohol theory could be out of the window. Hurrah
Bluenose, I agree with you about steady improvements but as my start point was so dismal (12:50m/m @138) and I'm currently running 50miles per week I assumed there may be a quick improvement (say to 11:30) then plateauing and sticking at that pace for a few months.
Today's run kind of backs up that theory. Although tomorrow's will probably disprove it
L33: your post has given me a big lift. The thought of not being able to have a few pints here and there was a touch depressing. I just didn't want to go to all the effort of HADDing then muck it up just because I couldn't resist a beer. Your comment about thr programme not being linear should be highlighted and used more often. Spot on. Good luck on your race... sounds like you'll fly through it.
Thanks for everyone's help.
Gus
For me alcohol affects my performance, no doubt about it in a negative way.
So I have promised myself no alcohol till the night of the 26th of May, after a race on the isles of Jura, where the finish is right next to the Jura whisky distillery.
I can't wait for that night!!!!
L33: All the best for the marathon. As you know, I have been following your progress with great interest given that you were always 5-6 weeks ahead of me. i can't wait to hear how it goes and will be waiting eagerly to get a report on your progress.
gus: As with others I too run to maintain my drinking habit
. I am no expert on what effect it has but the way i fugure it is that life is all about balance and when you are clocking up 25 + miles per week you have a few tokens in the bank to have the odd beer as a reward.
My own progress is still a bit sporadic. In truth I have completed too much of my training in the company of others so have always been running closer to 75-80% as opposed to the 70% so can't blame the programme for no obvious increase in pace to heart rate improvement. This said where it has helped me greatly has been in enabling me to up my mileage significantly to reash 35-40 miles per week from 15-20 without any significant injuries.
I am determined to have a real disciplined go at the HADD when my marathon is over in early May. I am out on a 20 miler for my long slow run on Friday with 3 others. To maintain the 70% I would need to be running 10.45 min miles but know we will go closer to 9.45-10 min miles for at least the first 15 miles which has been my issue. This said I will then do my recovery runs and a couple of runs mid week at the 70% which touch wood has so far helped me to recover and continue.
cheers
Laureate33, I really do hope you enjoy Sunday, because you certainly deserve to.
The passionate, committed and thorough approach you have adopted is a credit to you.
GOOD LUCK!
I am looking forward to your race report immensely.
Hope the conditions are favourable, and you feel ok on the day.
Regards,
Brian.
Blimey, Brian, I wish you were writing my Annual Appraisals! lol...
Seriously, though, if you will allow me to indulge in a bit of mutual back-slapping, the commitment and thoroughness are no more than a product of the need to do my best by the excellent advice I have received from people such as you, BN, Crash, Dr Dan and numerous others(...) on this thread (not sure where the passion comes from - mebe its as simple as being able to get out in the fresh air at a pace that allows you to enjoy it
). But thanks anyway, I really appreciate the sentiment. 
The good news is that the missus bought me a Garmin 405cx for my 48th the other week... notwithstanding the vagiaries of the forces postal system, it arrived on Monday so I will now be in a position to not only track my progress as I run, on Sunday, but to analyse my results afterwards to see if and when I might have gone 'off -piste' or where my relatively strong and weak sections were. There's just the small issue of getting used to the bezel and setting up the way I need it before then (useful earlier posts on here, methinks...).
Regards,
Tim
Best of luck for Sunday - I think we are all really interested on how well you do as it will re-affirm that this HADD stuff works (no pressure then - lol)
Well I am in the middle of an enforced lay off. I think my shoes were too tight on my recovery run on monday and the tendon at top of foot is sore. Five days would be ideal as it would give my legs ideal time to recover from my marathon. After that I am going to have to swim and use the cross trainer. Do not want to lose any of this fitness.
Good look for Sunday L33.
SimonA - thanks: no pressure taken... I'm as interested to see the results as you are
Spen71 - thanks for the best wishes: mine to you too, for a speedy recovery. I hope that your sore foot is nothing too serious.
All, right, that's it... time to cut the umbilical to this thread and get on with it. I'm off home to pack my vaseline for Sunday. Next post will be Tusday when I hobble back into the office.
CIAO!!!
Yes - it's difficult.
Well, I have stuck at it and here's my 2nd week update. I managed another 30+ mile week with 5 hours of running. To take advantage of the opportunity of today's longer run, I made a couple of the runs earlier in the week a bit shorter. I managed just over 90mins today and although I slowed down a bit over the later part of the run, the ave speed was comparable. The most interesting part of the week was Friday's run when I struggled to keep the HR below 70%. This was the same run I struggled with last week and my conclusion is (and feel free to disagree - I only have a very basic grasp of human biology) that I'm running too soon after breakfast (45 mins), so my blood is being used in digestion and not available to provide so much oxygen to muscles, so everything's working harder. I'm going to try and workout how I can run later or earlier, so that this is not an issue.
So, onwards. No improvements yet, but still early days.