HADD training plan

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  • FWIW, zinc tablets (which tend to include vit C) have done wonders in keeping me away from colds; there's even some science behind it too; well worth a go at this time of year!

    curt, that sounds like a much better run! That's about where I'm at at the moment too; 7 miles in a second under 9 min miling at 148 average. I'm still seeing good improvement, but my PB MP is just a trouch under this pace, so I expect it'll start to tail off soon.

    Rest day for me today image

  • Had a day off HADD training today and competed in a 10k race.... I was curious to see if two weeks of HADD training had made a slight bit of difference.... Prior to HADD, very few of my training runs were over six mile, and now very few aren't.....

    According to the Frank Horwill (which is quoted by HADD), I should be running 10k in 41.50 (off a 19.59 5k time) but hadn't broken 44mins before..... Today in lovely conditions, I completed 10k in 42.20, felt really fresh at the beginning, bar the legs.. legs felt like they belonged to someone else....  Felt I had a lot more strength, than in previous race's.....

    Back to HADD training tomorrow, and at this present time, am happy were its taking me.....

  • Good one Bluenose - put your feet up and celebrate!image
  • Crash Hamster, not so good today 5 mile at 9m/m at an average HR of 154 , i tend not to look at my HR whilst running as it puts me on a downer if i am to high , so just running at 9m/m at the moment, and recording the HR when i download it. Although i felt tired today after 30 mins in the pool learning the art of freestyle , not very wellimage

    Bluenose74, great race time just goes to prove that hadd does work , which will motivate me moreimage

  • Pammie, like the potato commentimage

    Well raced Bluenose!

    Run easier and longer for better results. Improvement will be slow on 45min runs. Try and lengthen the runs (or at least 2 per week) to 70mins+

  • Bluenose - great result for your 10k.

  • Cheers fellow HADD'ers... Last night and this morning legs still felt remarkably fresh, unlike after the last few races I've done....

    As mentioned yesterday, am only two weeks into HADD, but have been training all year round (except when ill or injuried)..... I do have a decent iniial turn of foot, but drastically lack stamia.... With focasing on the HADD program, I feel it'll give me a good stamia base, plus its a good program to do during the winter......

    Again guys Thanks......

  • Good result BN74  - that is exactly what I am using HADD for  - stamina building .My last couple of runs have not been to HR, just running freely but the HADD training is showing promise. for me at least.
  • I'm a new recruit to the Hadd cause. Been running since Feb 2009 and recently completed marathon No. 4 in Frankfurt for a new PB of 4hrs 12min, an improvement of almost 17mins on Mittelrhein back in May. I've taken a grand total of 36mins off my first marathon time, Stratford in Apr 10. I've managed 2 44min 10Ks and a sub 1.45 HM, all this year off a Hal Higdon intermediate plan for the first half of the year which I felt gave me a reasonable base. I followed a RW Garmin plan for Frankfurt which I felt really good with, the variety helped a lot.

    So I started Hadd last week, aiming for sub 140HR, it's a level I find easy and fits well as I'm still in recovery phase from Frankfurt. Next week I shall do a MaxHR test and the following week a 2400m Hadd test, which will hopefully give me the right info to work off. If all goes well, this winter will give me a better base as I'm starting earlier, 2 main races for 2012, Dusseldorf marathon in Apr and Cologne marathon in Oct.

    Only problem I'm finding at this time of year is it can take a while for the HRM to settle down, I put it down to the cold snap at the moment drying out the contacts. This morning's run, I was averaging 239 and 198bpm for the first 2 miles and  222bpm for the last. Otherwise it was 132-137bpm for the 5 miles inbetween when I upped the pace a bit.

    There endth the life story image

  • SlowRunningMan - welcome to the thread.   You're making great progress with your marathon PB's

    Your variable HR's might be due to lack of contact and/or moisture.  Or some HRM's do pick up interference from various things.   Before I had my Garmin my previous HRM's used to give me high readings near the signals for the railway station, past a tyre fitting workshop??? and if I ran too close to a vehicle with the engine running and various other places.

  • Welcome SRM from a fellow thread newbie. With a 10k time like that, you should be able to smash your marathon PB with HADD training!

    Cracking PB, Bluenose; congratulations!

    Curt, learning freestyle isn't at all easy! I had a lot of lessons and swam a lot of miles, just to end up 'marginally better than the average triathlete'...I guess I'll never make a swimmer! image

    My chest feels tight and like I want to cough if I breathe deeply; I ran yesterday even though I didn't feel 100% (I rarely run on Sundays and never on Tuesdays so missing Monday makes a big hole in my schedule), kept my HR lower than normal (71.5%) and still ran 9:30s on an easy XC loop. Really pleased with that.

    I've just got to hope that I don't end up with the locally popular chest cold, which seems to start with a cough and tightness...

  • Welcome SRM. With your marathon and other times I would suggest cutting the 2400m * 5  HADD test down to 2K. I don't think you will get any additional information from running an extra 2K and especially on the last one you will find it a bit of ball-breaker. I did.

  • This is really interesting stuff.  Just read most of the Hadd doc from the first few post on this thread and I am keen to give it a go.

    My resting HR is 48 - 50 when I am not training and 40 - 42 when I am fit, never tested max HR though.   I will do the MAX HR test in the next few day and I will train for London Marathon using what I have learnt.

    I do use my HRM once a month, so I will have some data to compare.

    Will post my results later.

    FH

  • Cheers for the advice JB.

    Looking forward to hearing the results of your MaxHR test FH, I'm planning on doing my Max test on Sunday.

    Only managed 4.5 miles yesterday due to a lack of time, although made up for it today with a nice run of just over an hour. Managing to get more consistent readings on the HRM too.

    Another hour tomorrow and then thanks to an early knock off on Friday I shall do my LSR for the week image

  • Lots of new participation recently, we're getting quite a crew together!

    Had another 40 mins elliptical trainer session today in the gym (along with my first tentative 10 mins rowing session since the op, which seemed to go OK, touch wood...) and at one point was thinking "This feels a bit too easy".  Then I remembered that the elliptical trainer is the most running-like activity that I'm using to get me used to running again... when "This feels a bit too easy" is precisely where I want to be. 

    Brian - on the weight front I'm back down to 11st 10, which in competitive indoor rowing terms officially makes me a "Lightweight".  image

  • I am also a newbie to this thread and the Hadd way of thinking.I picked up on this thread through another Runners World Thread: http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/beginners/heart-rate-101/7576.html

    Thanks to LS21 for showing me the light!!!

    As a bit of background I ran most of last year and the early part of this year as training for the London Marathon which went according to plan in 3.46. Since then I have run once or twice a week but mainly cycled through the summer.

    Last year my training mainly consisted of marathon pace runs of around 85-90% H/R Max and concentrated on trying to run this pace for longer and longer rather than any structured training. (This was my first marathon and maybe I was a bit naive to think this was the way forward) having said that I was fairly pleased with my time as a I am comparatively new to running and alas, no longer a teenager!  

    Since reading this around 3 weeks ago I have run 6 days a week all at 75% Max H/R, shortest run 6 miles – longest 11 miles.

    Each run has seen my heart rate stay at the same average, give or take a little but the average mile time has come tumbling down - we are not talking records here but it has dropped from 10:15’s to last nights 10 miler at 9:20 min miles.

    I can only reiterate what others have said - I saw the real improvement once I started with the longer runs (90mins or so). I know I am only 3 weeks in but this last week has seen some quite pronounced improvements in mile times with the same AHR

    I will be continuing with the 'HADD running' until Christmas when the New Year will see me introduce some slightly higher AHR runs once or twice a week, before settling into an 8 - 10 week more structured plan for this years Marathon.

    I will be running another marathon in April and am really looking forward to seeing how this way of training compares with my previous effort.

    Thanks to everyone on this forum who have taken the time to explain and share their findings regarding this way of training, if nothing else I have so enjoyed running and only looking at my heart rate on the run rather than trying to compete against the watch…

    Keep up the good work everyone; I look forward to reading everyone’s experiences.

  • PhilPub wrote (see)
    on the weight front I'm back down to 11st 10, which in competitive indoor rowing terms officially makes me a "Lightweight".  image

    From 2005 to 2010 I did a fair bit of indoor rowing, competing at the Worlds (Boston) and European (Amsterdam). Co-incidentally my running pb (2:46:57 and rowing PB 2:47:xx are almost almost identical). I used to be on the C2 forum as  Johnnybike and I started the long-running 'runners' thread on there.

    I did the rowing FM mid-morning and ran 10K in the afternoon. Whilst I did not row when I did my running PB I would definitely have not been able to row 10K in the afternoon after the race.

  • Hi- I am now in my second week of Hadd- style training. I  am looking forwards to my 7th marathon next april, and also some more ultra's- having done 1 x30mile race last month.

    I have a max HR of 184 from a 10k I ran this year, during which I felt like I was dying- I've never got close to that on a deliberate "max HR test"- usually fall short by about 5bpm. I'm using the figures from the HADD document, to aim for an initial period of running at <135, and will move up to include some ILTHR stuff when I feel the  HR drift has settled.

    I commute to/ from work ( 6 miles each way) 1-2 times per week. Plus a longer one- way commute of 11 miles about once a week. I've only done the 6 miler so far- 2 round trips, but the second one felt much smoother thatn the first, with fewer enforced walk breaks due to going over the HR zones. Will be intersted to see how the times change ove the weeks- it's a fully reproducible route each time, so should get a good idea of improvement. I didn't really feel up to the full HADD test when I did it 3 weeks ago- too early post ultra race to push the pace at all on tready. Will do a more thorough test in a couple more weeks.

    I'm also cheating a little by going to spinning classes, otherwise I can't see how I'm suddenly going to cope with races that push HR > 160, if I've done nothing > 145 for months. 

  • JB - Nice.  You're the first person I know who's actually rowed a marathon.  I used to think that was a crazy idea but I've since been up to 10k myself (38:38 without beasting myself) so I can see it being done.  I've got half an eye on the national indoor champs next March, but I'm gonna do a few sessions in the gym over the next few weeks and see how it goes.  I've managed sub-7 for 2k off very little training so I'm sure I can knock a fair bit off that if I do some proper sessions.

    tricialitt - nothing wrong with a bit of x-training cheating.  It's all I'm doing at the moment.  image

  • Johnnybike i used to post of them forums thought i recognised the name.
  • Welcome to the newbies. More the merrier, and more interesting stories being told.

    Phil, Great to hear your still hitting your non-running targets, and it won't be long now. Impressed with your sub-7 2k, I've dabbled (mostly when running-injured) and just managed to sneak under 7:30.

    I've been in a quandry over the last few days. Having been injured for 3 months early this year, I came back and peaked perfectly for Abingdon marathon. Having recovered from that, I set myself some tough goals - pb at london marathon, and on the way sub-80 hm and sub-60 10miler, which have eluded me by seconds over the last 2 years. I've been advised to either go for the sub-80 (brass monkey) OR the pb at london, not both. Mainly cos the training for the BM is too intense at this stage of spring marathon training (I should be in base). This has made sense to me eventually, and I have reluctantly given up on the HM/10M goals, in preference to an orthodox marathon build-up. So onward and upward, lots of easy/steady miles, and 2 S&C sessions in the gym. Hope it's worth it.

    Anyway, whilst I was thinking about it yesterday, I beasted myself with an 80% session. 10miles at 7:07 pace HRav 150.

    1st PECO X Country on Sunday, looking forward to racing, but not the mud.

  • So I did the MAX HR test, 15 minutes slowish pace, then picked up the pace for 5 minutes and gave it my all for a minute. MAX HR 176

    As I am new to this do I aim to stay around the 123 HR on all of my runs ?

    I have looked back at the long runs where I have used a HRM and I averaged around 142 - 150, I guess that was too high ?

    Your help please.

    Thanks

    FH
  • Hi Funny Hat, If you've seen 176 on the test, I would assume a HRmax of 178. Your easy zone is up to 70%, so < HR 125. So, initially, to get up to a par weekly mileage (I'm guessing it's minimal at he mo?), try and stay below 70% (definitely no more than 75%). Gradually build the run times till you get 2 or 3 to 70mins+, and then reassess.

    Obviously post how you go on please.....

  • Brain... You can still go for your aim's... Get London out the way with recovery, then pick-up the serious training again in Jul/Aug and aim for a 10m & HM in Sep/Oct, loads of decent ones knocking about, even Abingdon HM, you know the course....

    X-Country Sunday..... Rather you than me mate.... I hate it with a passion......

  • Bluenose, yes thanks. That will fit the bill. Just need to stay fit.....

    What is your next goal?

  • Thanks Brian, at the mo I am running 3 times a week. The longest being 7 miles. I was aiming to get a good solid base to kick start my London Marathon training which I was planning on starting 1st of Jan.

    So when I run next I just take it steady until I get to 125hr and then stick to it ?

    FH
  • Still got alot of work to do with my 5 & 10k times, Priority 1....... Since starting HADD training, and knocking out the long Sunday run's, my mind got me thinking about doing a 10m & HM later next year... But thats still in the thinking stage.....

    Next on the agenda, parkrun saturday (if I can get out of bed), and then hopefully Bromham 10k the following weekend.... And then knock out some serious training miles.....

    But as you say Brian.... Its all about keeping fit...... And I've never managed two months back to back, YET....

  • Fh, yes that's the idea. Don't worry about miles and pace, think more about time and HR
    Add an extra run every 2 or 3 weeks, and build till you get 2 of the weekly runs to 70 mins or more.
  • Hi folks - I've been following this thread and "methodology" for some time now.

    Starting with the present, tonight I ran 10 miles in 1:28:29 avg HR 133 (70%). Max HR (from last Sunday's XC race) =164. I appreciate that this might be low and I'll check it again in a week or two. Another factor is that I am 62 yrs young so would expect a lower HR than most of you on here.

    Other races this year as a sighter:

    5km 20:32 (parkrun), 20:14 (club race)

    10km 43:01

    10miles 1:13:xx

    HM 1:39:05

    I'm working on the baseload/HADD until New Year and then it's heads down into training for VLM (my first mara). Based on where I am I reckon my MP should be about 8:30 min mile or 5:30min km, but I could be wrong!

    Question: how long do you guys anticipate holding the HADD HR sessions for, or do you always drop back to 70% for recovery etc?

  • Mike, I would expect a MHR of > than 162 as I do not think you can hit a maximum in a race. You have to give absolutely everything for just a minute to get a MHR and I do believe that to be unlikely in a distance race however hard you think you are working.

    I am interested in your times, which are very good, especially so for a 62yo. However I do not know where you get a target FM pace of 8:30 from. I am 54 and I have not hit any of those in my current period of training but they are all aspirational to what I think I could get to if I was racing (if that makes sense). However I am targeting 3:30 in April not 4:00. OK I might end up with 4 hours but the target is definitely 8:00mpm pace and see how it goes.

    As to your final question, if you mean how long do you do HADD training for then it is a foundation or base training exercise and as such I plan on a 12 week cycle. I have used it for a slightly different purpose in that running slower is allowing me to run more and get much-needed miles into my legs quicker than I could do if I was doing quality sessions as well. However I see myself using the HADD technique during FM 16 week training which for me will start in early December (after only 11 weeks of HADD).

    HADD will allow me to do double sessions at a steady pace to get miles in and also one longer run a week will be 75%AHR and this will form the dual purpose of a recovery run and getting miles in. I hope to be running around 45-50 mpw and if anybody has a good 16 week plan that they recommend then please let me know.  I will hoping to do one tempo/faster 5-6 miler, a long run and a few steady runs. I will not be doing much interval or speed work for this race as it really is a 'getting a marathon under my belt and seeing where I am at race'  rather than trying to get  a specific faster time.. I am not going to PB over any distance any more  other than 5K and I am happy to accept that.

    Sorry to waffle but 04:30 and cannot sleep.   

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