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BERLIN Marathon 2012
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KW-nice report and sounds like a gutsy run you did.
Spelling was a little wayward this morning, I must still be recovering
Another Marathon of the North survivor here, I really enjoyed yesterday even after my legs gave up on that final little bridge next to the 26 mile marker and I ended up heading for the pavement! A bunch of spectators and marshalls helped me to stand up as my legs were having none of it and had given up. After a few minutes I was back on my feet, sadly my 6th female placing had slipped to 14th while I was on the floor! Still a superbly organised first event and nice to see so many different parts of Sunderland.
KW it's reassuring to hear from a faster runner that you also struggled on those last few miles, along with many more of those around you. As a glutton for punishment I'm planning on going back next year, not sure if I should do London aswell?!
So now a few easy weeks before ramping the training back up for Berlin, bring it on!
Carrot, My mate finished 2nd. Reading his race report he did his last mile in about 7:40 which for him is vwery slow indeed. That last 3 miles was a constant gradual climb and on tired legs having already negotiated a rolling course was challenging. I was so tempted to have a walk break but I think the marshall who said a top 50 place might be on was the motivation to just get on with it.
If your serious about London, I would heartily recommend it. Maybe Steve Cram can give us a further week of recovery next year so we can do the contrasting marathons.
7:40 is very slow for someone finishing under 2:50! Makes me feel alot better.
My boyfriend will be running London as he now has a GFA, so it seems daft to go all the way to London for the marathon and not run it. But I feel as if I have a score to settle with Sunderland and now I know what's coming I'll be much better prepared! Closest I've ever run two marathons was four weeks. Two weeks apart must have hurt, masses of respect for running such quick times in both!
Hi all, another Berlin-bound runner joining the thread
Looking forward to the Berlin course, never done it before. I ran Paris last month and found it a bit up/down and hard to get into a rhythm on, plus this year there was quite a bit of wind. Last year I did Amsterdam and found it a much easier course than Paris... hopefully Berlin will be similar.
As for training I'm back into base-building at the moment (around 55 miles a week) and have some 10Ks lined up to see what training paces I should work at for Berlin. Thinking of and adapted P&D plan (70-85 miles pw).
Curious if anyone knows anything about the starting corrals -- I sent a mail to the Berlin organisers with my Paris time (2:57 - a new PR) which they confirmed, but was wondering where that places you. Is there a sub-3 section near the front like at Paris?
Well done Carrot and KW for completing the Marathon of the North. Sounds like it was a really tough race, especially if you'd done a recent mara. I once ran two of them with only twop weeks apart and i well and truly unravelled in the 2nd half of the latter race. So you have my utter respect for that.
As do you Iain for working in a a deprived city. Glad to know that despite ignorance and lack of good examples to follow, that people can aspire to better health and even fitness. I almost take for granted the benefits that running brings to me, but i wish more people would reach out and claim them for their own. So kudos to anyone working and running and showing people there is another path apart from balloning weight and a fast track to diabetes led health decay.
Welcome to this thread Stefan (glad you got on OK in Paris) - shame we didn't see you there. At the moment, it's looking increasingly unlikely I'll be running in Berlin. Just driving a car is really uncomfortable now. Back to the hospital for MRI scan on my knee tmrw afternoon then get to see the sports doc an hour later. I wouldn't be surprised if I get an appointment made for an operation thereafter. They are very efficient in Belgian hospitals (but we sure do pay the taxes to make this possible!!).
TD hope the MRI goes as well as it can
I am also in trouble, saw a Sports Doc on friday about my torn calf and he gave me the worst case scenario. I cannot run,bike or swim for another three weeks, the following week is only about building up strength in the calf - at best i should be running in 5-6 weeks which seriously eats into the training plan. I do have the small matter of the Manchester 10k in two weeks - struggling to cancel it though, really want to do it - not run for over a week now and feel so frustrated considering the decent weather over the weekend. Even bought my Sub 3 hour Advanced Marathoning book ready for Berlin and now its all goneout of the window. Taking loads of protein shakes and constantly have it taped and using ice/heat to try and heal it even quicker - wish i was a footballer now with 24/7 care from a physio
Quick one for the experienced guys here, went from no running in January to the Manchester Marathon at the end of April and will be doing this one as well. However I will have had 5 complete weeks off training due to holidays etc.
Would I be ok to get back into a training programme with relatively low risk of injury if I say jumped in at a 25 mile week for week 1? and increased it from there
Great running Carrot & KW - sounds 'challenging'. Said it before but running 2 marathons so close together is insanity to me so respect!
Welcome Stefan and well done on the PR. can't say i know about starting pens but i should imagine the sub 3's will be at front behind Championship start. You targeting another PR in Berlin?
TD & Andy - what gutting news. I can truly sympathise having been there. Andy - sounds like you really need to reign it in and just rest. I;'ve ran thorugh injury before and where i should have taken 3 weeks out to rest, I put myself out for 3 months due to lack of patience. Can you do other non impact exercise in the meantime? Deep water running or something? As for TD, sounds like you resigned yourself and prepared for the worst already and if that's the reality, here's wishing you a quick recovery. At least it's not your drinking arm
QR - Is there no chance of you doing ANY mileage at all over that 5 weeks? Recently returning myself I started off at 16 miles per week and increased it as recommended every third week. My first 3 weeks looked like this (in miles): 0420406. The next 3 weeks were 0420508. this got me back slowly but injury free
Andy-You've been so enthusiastic. This is really disappointing. I hope there's still a fighting chance you can get it over on time.
TD-What a bomb if the worst case scenario put you off from Berlin. But you've been through this before and knows best what to do. Best wishes to you.
Johnas-You are the best role model in the discipline of 'come back'. I almost never fail to get into trouble for 'too much too soon' after each come back.
Stefan-welcome(just feel a little awkard a much slower runner welcoming a sub-3).
Been there and got the TShirt so learnt the hard way!
Hi, I have also signed up for Berlin this year after coming through Manchester (1st marathon). It was a bit grim at times but I loved it.
Great to see so many of the same guys that were in the G Manchester forum.
Legs still not ready for any serious running so signed up for the Great Manchester Swim (1mile). That means time in the pool instead for a month or so.
Paul
Thanks everyone. AndyC - on my rough calculations we have 20½ weeks to Berlin mara. Even if you have to wait 5 weeks to do proper recuperation, that still gives 15-16 weeks to get ready for the race. I recall Paula Radcliffe saying she only needed 10 weeks to get fit for a big race. OK, she may have a bit more time to train 2-3x/ day but even so, I hardly think you are in an "all is lost!" situation.
Any sort of endurance sports performance requires the ability to adapt. So maybe this race isn't going to break your all time PB, but surely the goal should be to do a complete recovery and perform your best given the training window available?
I just think you need to reset your sights and you might find the whole experience a little less stressful and more enjoyable/ productive. That's not meant to sound patronising btw.
I can see a scenario for myself where I might only get in 12 weeks training. It'll have to do (if I even get that much!). I shall then reset my plans and try to have the most fun possible running a marathon and will have to wait next year to go fast again. Who knows. Adaptation is the key, find a more appropriate goal....
@TD - sorry to hear about the knee. I hope the results of the MRI are more positive and an operation can be avoided. If you can manage 12 weeks training that's still pretty good.
@Johnas - yes, if the training goes well I'll be trying to PR. I managed a 2:57:58 in Paris but think on a better day and faster course I could have managed a 2:55:xx. I'll be trying to get into sub-2:55 shape for Berlin. My 10K PR this year is 37:40, and at the moment I'm back onto a high mileage regimen with some 10K races thrown in to see where I am fitness wise. I started running just over a year ago, at aged 39, and have got my marathon time from 3:31 -> 3:08 -> 2:57. So I'm getting to the stage now where I'll be scraping to gain a few minutes. I think you're faster - what's your target for Berlin?
Only joined the thread a couple of days ago...now I have a cold. Boo hoo. Fed up! Copenhagen a week on Sunday. May have to miss the few runs planned this week. Will this have an effect on the big day?
TD - point taken and i know i should maybe reset my goals but you know what 'the running bug' does to you. i was wondering how much your fitness tails off once you stop running?
Sorry to hear that TD, hope the MRI scan brings some answers.
Torn calf sounds painful Andy, that's so frustrating with the recovery time. Don't make any decisions until you're sure you can get properly into training again, no running at all for three weeks due to the injury suggests it won't take kindly to marathon training!
Mabel - don't panic, just have a few extra days off as part of your taper. Not much you can do now training wise that can help Copenhagen next week but you can delay getting well again if you just train through it.
Best wishes, Iain
Paul-Welcome to the thread.
Feels good to read all the positive mentality comments. Last year I decided to DNS Berlin due to calf-injury disrupted 3-4weeks of training (did Dublin 5 weeks later instead). I probably needn't have to DNS had I been more optimistic. I'll be looking for your positive re-inforcement should i get into trouble again. (I still fear of calf injury/strain).
Thanks for the welcome assee.
Flights are booked but need to get the hotel sorted. Any recommendations would be welcome
Not that much faster than you - that's awesome running and progression on your behalf! I'm bieng ambitious and hope to knock 6 mins off to dip under 2.50. I've only done 1 marathon which was off no runnng for a year, 20 yrs of the cigs (I'm now 5 months smoke free!) and plagued with runners knee from turning up the mileage too soon with no base mileage. It meant I had to miss the key long runs and keep fit doing deep water running only. Strength training is now a massive part of my training to ensure past injuries don't resurface and to maximise injury prevention. Which leads me nicely on to assee....
Assee - if your calf muscle is a worry, are you pre-empting it with any calf and leg strengthening exercises a couple of times a week? If not, I'd recommend it
Mmm, well I can officially confirm I am the first WNS from this thread (Will Not Start). Will be having my Meniscus operation on 15th June and sports doc said I should forget running a marathon for a year. And whilst this is a bullseye in terms of my self-diagnosis, a little part of me had believed I would stil be able to make it to the start line.
Well, I will be there or thereabouts, but the only thing I'll be able to do is cheer enthusiastically and take photos and dream about coming back stronger.
One of the unresolved issues in my mind is whether my cartilage damage is a result of running related wear and tear (I suspect not) or due to a traumatic injury that I had not noticed/ was unaware of? At least the surgeon will be able to recognise what type of damage it is and tell me, so I can immediately plan how to protect my knees in further exercise so I can be a lifelong athlete, or I can stop worrying about being conservative and go back at training and preparing to knock out more PBs in the future. Will be nice to know for sure what is possible/ necessary.
I'll stick around on the thread and offer my own encouragement. Thanks everyone for the kind words...
Sorry to hear that TD but it's for the best for your longer term running life... Peaks and troughs and all that but you seem a sensible and realistic fellow. Like I said earlier, at least it's not your drinking arm and you can always you the bar as a prop to support you
TD - as per my comments on Paris thread, really sorry to hear your news...
I am stealing this from the Paris thread as I think it's worth a mention anywhere:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leicestershire-17988848
What an incredible person.
I'd love to get under 2:50 one day, but I'm going to try to get my 10K time to 36:40 or quicker before attempting it. That's a minute off my PR from February. I'll see how it goes over the next couple of months as I've a few 10Ks lined up.
I too was on the cigs for nigh on 20 years -- quit just over 2 years ago. Started running initially only as a way to lose the flab acquired after quitting. Nothing like marathon training to shed those stones!!
Really sensible to do the strength training... I should do more but just get so bored!!
TD - sorry to hear that, hopefully it's been caught early enough.If the advice from the doc is no marathons for a year, I'd take that as good news.
TD sorry to hear that
hope that all goes well and you are back running again as soon as possible. I am back at the quack tonight to see how things are progressing. Like Stefan says its good news that they are still saying you can run once its all cleared up.
The main issue for me is when the surgeon looks inside the knee and can directly see the cartilidge. He will then be able to tell if the damage is a one off as a result of a trauma (accident) or if there is a degeneration of the cartilidge as a result of overuse. If there is an overuse problem then I think I am going to have to seriously reconsider the sort of mileage I've been doing, maybe running altogether.
However, I think this is highly unlikely. The trouble is, I can't think of any incident where I suffered compression with a twist on the knee, which is the common way of damaging the edge of the meniscus. I also have a feeling the damage is very slight, after all, I PB'd on a marathon less than 4 weeks ago! So I'll just have to stay patient and I'll find out.
Went to the gym this morning to do some weight training as apparently it is very important for post-op rehab to go in with as much muscle strength as possible in quads and hamstrings.
TD that is what puzzles me - how could i do a 3:20 at Brighton on a leg i needed to have 4-5 weeks off on? Something to be said for adrenaline i think. i have also been weight training a lot over the last few weeks off, done a lot of core work and also begun seated leg raises to begin strengthening the quads - allowed to do this as it does not affect the calf. Not had a lot of pain in the last few days walking so the temptation is getting greater to have a gentle mile - must resist