Auviour Paris: So long and thanks for the cobbles

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  • take it nice and easy this morning mcs - beautiful day here

  • Funny Hat that is a really impressive improvement. How many miles are you doing and what kind of running to make that progress?

     

  • Hi oscarr bootiful morning though windy heading out for the first six and a half flat course in 53 mins then massive tail wind threw me a pb in 1.42.49 and I felt great......silly but just had to keep going evenly when I looked at the watch at ten miles thought yes and just kept cruising.........big smile on face...........hope all enjoy the sunshine, time for a shower.
  • nice running mcs, you look to peaking at the right time.

  • hi mcs  - that dosent sound "easy" but glad you enjoyed it and a big morale boost for your full in a fortnight - enjoy your OH lunch

  • Hi  all another long gap from me, sorry!  First silly question time by two...what's 49?  Is it something to do with Marathon Talk? I have a 26.2 shirt, now I'm wondering if there's an actual 26.2 station or is it just the weekly interviews / podcasts I've found online and which are indeed ace?    When you've stopped laughing guys.... Oscarr - I really feel for you , you got to 20 exactly where I was when I went sub 4, i.e bang on target and not ahead.  So something happened.  You can work with what you know and can deduce to ensure next time is different.  This year I didn't do my usual due the foot issue coming the week I'd have run it, but normally I do 24 miles in my projected marathon time [24 in 4 is also very easy to work out and to pace]. It's controversial I know to go over 20, but I like going long 5 times, of which twice 20 mile races with add ons, one of those races at MP. Having analysed my VLM performance with the aid of helpful stats that don't lie, I think it's very hard to run a negative split at the sub 4 hour mark for 3 key reasons.
  • WW - missed you at Watford, it was a bit messy, not too awful, I actually had a course PB nice and easy for 53. The false hope and rapid return of symptoms you describe sounds like plantar to me. So aqua jogging!  When I had posterior tib issues such that I couldn't run at all for about 6 months with big fat old girl's ankle and all, I trained in the pool almost exclusively at first, even the bike jarred it.  Then for the marathon phase I added one slow long run a week.  Incidentally this translated to 4:18 at London, and my first mara, so I hadn't a clue what I was doing even more so then. I would do 3,2,1 hours in the pool most weeks, sometimes not the 3 hour stint, couple of 2s and a 1 or a 2 and 3 x 1s, happy days. You can do so many different sessions, and movements even.  I varied between pendulum with legs almost straight [knees not completely locked], which I called RWs [because the mag said that was how to do AJ when they had an early feature]; then there's high knees fast, long slow Chariots of Fire recoveries, basically you can fit the tempo to tunes of your choice [I had Does he Wash Up?] for Wash Ups aka high knees.  For the long steady runs I would just replicate normal running, obvious form tips include not bending forward at the waist. On shorter sessions I would warm up for a lap [5 mins for a circuit of a big pool like York Hall where I usually go] or equivalent, then do intense intervals. Sometimes I would just welly it as hard as I could for 45 mins [build up from like 5!] and then jog 10 mins, job done. For a laugh you can do hurdles. I have no doubt that it works, and that I should have done more of it this year. One other key point is to watch your cadence or you could be teaching your legs the wrong neural pathway selection - or even to bounce too much. I must have seen you WW - Bunt is my favourite!  Always do Fred too!  What about Harlow?  
  • Luke Ellis 2 - Love Born to Run, totally took that on board, even started eating chia seeds until I read a cautionary tale about blood pressure reduction, and mine's low already. I'm hoping to transition the shoes, not very confident though as I seem to be such a wreck already.

    Choisty - I love to run too, if I could I would just run everywhere all day but see wreck above. Today I have been back on the bike after a mob match [only 3.5 miles] in the park yesterday.  Fitness is through the roof but right hip and lateral bony bit behind knee have been winding up in a TFL episode all week since Watford.  Then this morning left knee, a usual suspect, started having a word. So I am rollering and streching. Bike not ideal for any of this either. 

    The latest weapon is an acupressure mat.  I am pretty sure this has helped sort hip out a lot in a couple of goes last night and this morning.  All you do is lie on it.  I did this in bed this morning. Quite ouchy but I'm fine with that, it radiates and fades like any trigger point.  Needs to be direct to skin though.

    I'm suppoed to be doing Stockley Park 10K next Sunday, went for a recce in the week as we are supplying volunteer marshalls also, and it would need to dry out a LOT before I'd run it other than very gingerly. Shiny outcrops of pebbles protruding from loose wet sandy stuff.

  • Reiki - 47 refers to the episode number of one of the podcasts on MarathonTalk - i've also just bought a black adidas 26.2 tee shirt and like it a lot (from Sweatshop with MTalk logo on as well)

  • Will have to get one after Edinburgh! Listened to Tim Noakes interview would like to read his book.......library tomorrow to search it out.
  • Thanks Oscarr, I like the idea of ploughing through them all to immerse myself...then again, maybe meditation would be just as helpful!

  • Reiki - thanks for that...my only issue is the gym I belong to does not have any 'deep' water, i.e. can stand up all the way down the pool.  So think I will need to travel further afield which will make it less convenient...  Did you really do 3 hours AJ at one session, was it not a little boring?  Do you have one of those swimming MP3 players - would be interested which one and how good as am thinking of getting one for a b'day pressie next month.  However, I guess it's a little uncertain how long the plantar fascitis (or whatever it is) will take to clear up.  I'm getting new custom orthotics next Monday so hopefully that might help, and certainly not running til at least then.  Am thinking of leaving it a bit longer though as really don't want to aggrevate it.  Seem to be such a range of recovery times that I'm not sure how conservative to be before I attempt a run again.

    Well had a glorious bike ride today - almost not missing running!  Weather helps...

  • ps no. I've not done Harlow (is it a nice course?) but certainly sounds like we must have been at many of the same races!

  • Reiki/WW, do either of you run "barefoot"?  The reason I ask is that I seem pretty bullet proof and I put it down to two things 1. being poor as a kid and not having trainers, so much so I used to run 15miles barefoot over all terrains (including shingle beach!) 2. playing any sport put in front of me, from polo to darts meaning all muscles got a workout, I now chop wood to keep my core strong.

    I intend on a quite a few Newbury park runs this summer as I try to regain speed so I will see you there, the course looks quick too.

    I raced 10M this weekend at Alton, the course is the very definition of undulating, there is not a flat stretch anywhere ont he course, so stride length and cadence change constantly, still I kept my sub-hour streak going, it is now 9 on the bounce..any other racers this weekend? how did Newbury 10k go?

  • I planned a 13 mile training run but had to be rescued at 9.5 miles - just too tired to carry on! image Seem to be getting worse since Paris

  • Hi Choisty - not tried barefoot but have heard others talk about its injury preventing abilities.  Suspect I need to get rid of this annoying foot pain first tho.  I heard you need to train your foot strike to be different first?  I'm certainly cross training at the moment.  Latest is just bought a hula hoop for core training!!!

     

    Emma - am sure your body is still tired from the marathon!  I did brighton and not running as injured but the friend I ran with said she si struggling with anything longer than 5 miles still so sounds like you're doing well.

  • Thank you WW! I've bneen feeling a massive dip in confidence as a result of finding running so tough!

    Will try to be kinder to myself. I've got a 10k race on Sunday - suggestions for prerace prep most appreciated ... ie what should I be running this week?

  • Think a day per mile raced is the recovery time for a full marathon so you should be feeling better soon Emma.

    After yesterday's run I am feeling good today and considering my mara in 13 days. A nice tail wind as yesterday would be nice please. A sub four on paper just about possible but not counting chickens. The central govenor is going to be saying 3.59.59 now though. I promise to run very easy next Sunday Oscarr!!

    Hope injury heals up WW sure it will soon.  Sounds like you are still flying Choisty what mileage are you doing a week at the moment?

  • Emma, don't worry, run how you feel, not how you think you should.  I think the following for the week would work,

    Mon: easy 3-4M

    Tue: 1M w-up, 1M race pace, 1M w-down

    Wed: 5-6M steady

    Thu: 1M w-up, 8 x 100m strides with 1min recovery, 1M w-down

    Fri: Rest or run for fun, you choose

    Sat: Rest

    Sun: Smile, joke, laugh and race

    MCS, flying but not soaring yet.  Last weeks mileage was 44 running once on six days.  BNow make sure the taper is as good as the training

  • What was your maximum mileage leading up to Paris C?

    This week I am doing.

    5miles-1 M jog then 8 x 400m fast with 200m recovery then 1 m jog.
    5miles slow
    1M jog then 3 miles brisk then 1 mile jog
    Rest Friday
    3M saturday easy
    12 Miles steady Sunday though might just do an hour as Sam Murphys schedule.

    Been using the RW Ultimate Schedule for Sub 4 which I believe Steve wrote......I dont think I have missed any of the runs out, only the odd Saturday 3 M easy but I have to run to work most days so done the extra few miles. Any tips for tapering then C you gleaned from Paris?image

     

     

     

  • Choisty - Newbury is my home parkrun so would be delighted to run it with you although maybe not at your pace just yet (my PB is 20:15) - so give us a heads up if you plan to travel over.

    We always have  a warm welcome for celebrities - and the rock cakes in the cafe afterwards, well they rock ha!.

    Newbury 10k was fun on Sunday - hard not to be in the brilliant weather, about 13 degrees C at 10:15 and rising as the 800+ runners set off. The winner (3rd year in a row) got round in 32:xx despite the wind so it was quick for some despite the first 2-3k being uphill and into wind.

    Thereafter a mixture of footpath, gravel track and tow path for another 3k ish, and then road to the finish in the Market Square. Cash prizes for the few, medals etc for the many and all in all a good, speedy workout for those like me, back off a marathon, VLM in my case.

    In case anyone is interested, a 25 sec course PB for me of 44:42; 2nd in V60 this year and 76th overall v 94th last year. A nice event and even got "medaled" by the Mayor no less, complete with his bling.......

  • Anyone seen Bo ? Getting concerned now.

  • Choisty wrote (see)

    Emma, don't worry, run how you feel, not how you think you should.  I think the following for the week would work,

    Mon: easy 3-4M

    Tue: 1M w-up, 1M race pace, 1M w-down

    Wed: 5-6M steady

    Thu: 1M w-up, 8 x 100m strides with 1min recovery, 1M w-down

    Fri: Rest or run for fun, you choose

    Sat: Rest

    Sun: Smile, joke, laugh and race

     

    Thank you lovely man! That is more sessions than I would usually do but they are shorter so should be pretty easy to fit in. I usually go to track on Thursday evenings - so can either do 100s (what are strides?) or do 8 x 200 with 1 min recovery.

    I am much happier already knowing that I have a plan! image

    Last week I ran a 10m race on Sunday, 6.7 'recovery' run on Monday, 7.7 at marathon pace Tuesday, 4 ish miles at track doing 12 x 200m Thursday, cross trained on Friday and then 9.5 on Saturday. Think that even though the race the week before was technically not part of my milage still meant I was more fatigued?

  • Well done Mike - great stuff!

  • MCS, what I learnt was that a taper doesn't have to be as deep as I normaly go, for example I ran 14M at 6:30 pave 1 week before, with 2 rep sessions the week before and 1 the week after.  This stopped the gremlins getting in as I new I still had the speed and endurance without overdoing it, I was a bit sceptical but trusted Steve and I now belive him to be the Mesiah!  Oh, my peak mileage was 97, if I'd known I would have run 3 more.  The schedule looks good

    Mike, will see you there, I only live in Kingsclere, just need to my wife to take my boy to swimmin gone Saturaday morning.  Really good performance on what is a tough course (I have it a go last year), bling never goes a miss congratulations.  If you are around on 8th July, I organise a race in Kingsclere www.twistkingsclere5.org.uk if you fancy it.

    Emma, no worries..Strides the way I do them are 30 left foot strikes in 19 seconds, initially I would reccomend 100m trying for the fastest leg turnover you can manage.  If there are too many runs cull the easy ones first.

    Oscarr, not seen him...most odd

  • Hello all! Just back from holidays and feeling hugely invigoratedimage

    Have read through everything I've missed so first off, both commiserations and congratulations to Oscarr. Well done on making double figures in your marathon tally and on a good solid time. I'm really sorry you didnt achieve your goal - know how disappointing that is, but it sounds as if you're learning/reflecting from the whole experience to apply to the next challenge.

    And on the issue of marathon distance runs... I'll just add my tppence worth. For Choisty, a ful ldistance run was only just over 3 hours. For you (and most of us!) it'd be significantly longer - maybe 4, 4.5 hours and that just isn't a sensible run to be scheduling in to your training, in my opinion.

    Hi EmmaC, so you've got your next marathon lined up already, huh?! Trying to think what time of year that one is... Is it an autumn or spring? Good to see you're getting a bit of direction back after feeling a bit lost.

    Good 10 milers to add to the list - Canterbury, and Dartford - both in January.

    Er, what else? Well, I've just been on a week triathlon training camp - so have swum and biked ever day, and done a little bit of running (2 short runs - pretty pain free). I'm banishing the Garmin for now as I don't want to see my pace or distance - just running 15-20 mins. My main goal for the week was to immerse myself in the biking and swimming and then be fit/pain free enough to do the sprint distance tri on the last day. And I did! I was really pleased with my swim and bike, and managed to do the 5km run without pain (in a relatively slow 22ish mins)  to finish third woman overall in 1 hour 17 mins! My hip did hurt a lot that afternoon but it has eased off much quicker than before and I'm pretty much pain free again, 2 days later. So it's looking a bit more positive for full recovery nowimage Or at least, a season of 5kms and triathlons...!

    Nice to be back in touch.

     

  • Good to see you back running and recovering well Sam!!

    Congrats to Mike great running.

     Sad to hear the news that the 77 year old parkrunner who had just completed 100 park runs died last week in Bradford. That sounds like my way to go in bed, after doing 100 park runs, comiserations to his family and friends.

     

  • Hi Sam - wonderful to have you back! So pleased that you are so much on the mend - fantastic news. Love the slow 5k at 3 1/2 mins faster than my pb!

    I am still feeling rather lost - I was going to try and use the plan you had given me for my Dublin training although this will be hampered by holidays and lack of 20 mile races as preparation. Dublin is at end of October.

    If you don't mind when I've got my plan together might I be able to pick your brains?

    I am missing everyone terribly and really feels odd that I won't be bombing up to Birmingham at an ungodly hour to meet for training camp!

    Thanks for the advice - so Thursday is 100m fastest my chubby legs will manage with a 1min recovery? Sounds groovy!

  • Sam, good to see you back and on the mend, although triathlons are a dodgy affair, all that latex and switching positions!

    On the topic of 10milers...looking for a fast one Lordshill (Nov), Salisbury (Mar), Maidenhead (good friday)

  • Sam - great to hear from you again and really good news that you seem to be putting the hip problem behind you which must be a big relief - have had a complete rest these last 8 days but may start running again tomorrow as the legs are completely recovered (in fact they felt pretty good after about 3 days which was strange) - will take my time to decide if its Abingdon or Kielder in October and what the objective is (time or scenery??)

    Choisty - i've still got your Kingsclere5 pencilled on the calender for that beer you promised me ...image

    Emma - good luck in getting back into a weekly routine with your running - it really helps me having medium and long term races/goals set to focus on at least an outline plan for the short term weeks - think this time of year is about enjoying the summer race series without the big marathon pressure and using the spring training fitness for some good times (hopefully)

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