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Overdone it?
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Nope, never had that! I guess maybe I don't need one then.
My equivalent to the heart rate dropping over time for a given pace would probably be pace dropping over time for a given (perceived) effort level. Or vice versa. So for example what was a really tough LT run in the spring is now a manageable MP run.
Nor me. It is also useful for managing recoveries so you can go by recovery heart rate to decide when you go again, rather than a time interval. Again, as you get better trained that recovery time improves.
WAH! Xempo just e-mailed me a photograph of Phil wearing tiny green shorts.
Is his PB visible?
Pay attention, Skinny. He is doing the Paisley 10k.
That'd be ace if you also did Stirling, Richard; would be nice to meet you.
I got lost on the way home from work like the kind of fool who can't follow a main road in a straight line, so ended up cycling closer to 13 miles than 10.5. Oops.
Back from another mini-tour: Abergavenny and Islington this time. Today's workout was again 1k reps with 60s rests but this time I did 7 at an average of 4:22/km. That will have to do as my "peaking session" for Wigan 10k. If I can get within 5 seconds of that as average pace on race day, I will be a very happy pie-eater!
Erm, no, I keep meaning to sort out some driving lessons up here.
I should be able to arrange a lift with some people from my club. Otherwise I'll be looking for a last minute B&B as there is no bloody public transport on a Sunday. Grr.
I assumed your reps were in preparation for a 5k, Richard. They are sharp for 10k. If you can get near that sort of pace on race day you will smash your pb to pieces! My race is on Sep 7th.
Lit - Oh yes I got the green-shorts email too! I thought he only had red and orange ones. did you sign up for the pacing database? And is your commute 10.5M every day? always cycling or will you use it for running?
Garmin forerunner 210 is crap. I've had mine for a couple of years but reckon I've never got 3 months' continuous service out of it and now it is properly dead. So for yesterday's 3x2M (3 min recoveries, a bit long?) i got to compare stopwatch + gmaps pedometer with phone + private strava segment and paces came out 6:27,6:38,6:32 or 6:15,6:25,6:16 depending which you believe. Target was 6:40. I ran with a friend. He took a phone call about 800m in to the first rep and did not appear to be short of breath or struggling to hold the phone steady at his ear so I thought we'd better kick on once he hung up and of course it ended up being too quick. Second and third rep we started very steady, chatting over the first km and then winding up. We hadn't trained together before but arranged to do this after realising he is aiming at the same HM and similar pace - good find!
Pete - I think 7k of intervals off 60s a good session. Good pace too.
Marrow - That's a cracking pace and raises the question: what is your target HM time? I've heard the the 210 isn't great on a few occasions recently. I have a 405cx that I've had for about 5 years. Still going strong. Only fault I can find is that you can't set auto laps/splits based on time.
Think I'll try another turbo session tonight. Can you spin aficionados recommend a session: 45-60mins?
Gosh, yes, that is a good session, Pete. I think 7 reps off 60 secs counts as hardcore enough!
Marrows - there are four routes from my house to my office, some of which are partially the same, ranging from 9.7 to 10.4 miles and of varying degrees of hilliness. Sometimes I get the bus, but time spent sitting in a bus compared to (actually slightly less) time spent outside doing something energetic feels wasted while the weather is okay. I would probably run it once a week or so in winter when my mid-week medium-long run gets longer for marathon training but it'll take a bit of planning. I think I've found where there's a shower though. No to pacing as they don't seem to pay travel expenses and I live quite a long way from any of the kind of races they're likely to want pacers for. If I'm travelling to a race I'll want to race it.
Also, I agree with Lou. If you're chatting at half marathon pace it's too easy.
Oh, and actually popped in to report that today's session was the same as last week's (4 x 1 mile @ 10k pace) but with 400m steady recoveries instead of 800m.* I can't really see where this is supposed to progress to from here and am not sure I want to, but when I woke up at 6am I was so delighted that it wasn't pissing down with torrential rain as forecast that I almost didn't mind. In the end, it came out fairly similar to last week (5:58 average, or 5:57.5 if you want to be more precise and make me look faster), in spite of the shorter recoveries and less favourable wind conditions (diagonal cross-wind: all the fun of a headwind and very few of the benefits of a tailwind).
The recoveries were also slightly slower, because I forgot I was doing the fourth one (slightly pointless really after a final rep, but I always do it because I've usually programmed 4x (rep+recovery) into my garmin) until it was nearly over and it was almost too late to sprint to get it in the steady zone.
*Pete will no doubt disapprove, but I gave myself an extra 2 metres by using quarter miles.
Lit - Nice session. Progression... 5 x 1 mile??
Lou - My standard way to pass some time on the turbo/exercise bike when I'm on my own is to do some tempo/threshold intervals. 45 mins inc. 2 x 15 mins, or up to 1hr inc. 2 x 20 mins, 5/10 mins recovery in between. If you can monitor it, I aim for 80-90 rpm for recovery and up it to 100 rpm for the efforts, and adjust resistance to appropriate perceived effort.
We could have another interesting
PE/HR discussion here; you could use HR to gauge effort but only once you know how HR corresponds to your own perceived effort; generally speaking HR will be lower on the bike than for running for a comparable PE but the difference varies between people, depending on relative cycling/running fitness.
I have to say I don't like the thought of how ludicrously early I would have to get up to fit in an even longer session, let alone actually doing said session. But the following week will be 6.214 miles at 10k pace with no recoveries.
Haha. Yes, I've got that session coming up soon, too! Sounds like a tough one
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Lou - not sure. A fiddle with McMillan calculator and Daniels tables and recent 5K and 10K times says I should aim between 1:28 and 1:30 or 6:45-6:50/mile.
Lit - we weren't chatting for more than the first few minutes of each rep - huffing and puffing plenty over the second mile! wot you want for the run commuting is a special bra like mine. Everyone should have one (men too). I leave almost everything in the office overnight and can stash keys, phone, oyster card in the pocket round the back between shoulder blades. No bag! No jiggle! No jangle! it's excellent.
Phil - which way do you think bike vs run HR difference changes depending on bike fitness? HR for fixed PE more similar for run and bike if you are a strong cyclist?
I don't need a special bra, I have those Ron Hill cargo shorts with the five (5) pockets. It's more just the organisation of having left the right clothes, food etc. in the office and the relevant books in the places I need them. Seems a bit like hassle but I dare say I'll get used to it.
Edit: I am aware that claiming I am going to run to work in tiny shorts throughout a Scottish winter could be considered naive. But I am pretty hardcore and it'll need to get quite cold before I get the tights out.
Pah! I spit on your shorts!
You're just jealous. Come on, women's running shorts with FIVE pockets? Admit it, you want them.
OK, I admit it, I want them! But I'd wear tights underneath in winter
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Here you go Pete. The men's ones are disappointingly long, though.
Yeah, basically. As with running I've not measured HR on the bike for a long time, but typical HR for a tempo session as above would be mid/high 160s compared to threshold run HR of mid/high 170s. That's for me as a strong runner/reasonable cyclist. Someone with similar fitness profile in both may have a smaller difference but still higher for running cos it's weigh-bearing; a runner with no real cycling fitness might have a larger difference, possibly because weaker quads are more of a limiting factor than the aerobic system trying to feed them (?)
That's ok by me, lit. Despite having great legs, I am not an exhibitionist
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Who has races this weekend?
Bit of physio this am and left me feeling battered this afternoon so along with a very hectic day at work I'm having a rest day.
Anyone come across these-
http://www.thebetterbackshop.co.uk/product.php?pd=103
A friend had treatment by one today, said it was brilliant.
A weekend of pump and cycling lined up for me.
DT - Looks painful. I think I'll leave massage to the experts.
I'm basing sessions on Daniels' Running Fomula, which gives a true threshold for me of about 6:36, similar to McMillian, but also allows adjustment for longer tempo runs. Eg 40 mins at 6:50 or 60mins at 7:00.
PP - Thanks for the recommendations but the thought of maintaining 'threshold' effort on a bike for 15-20 mins at a time scared me somewhat, so I repeated the 3 x 9 minute progressions (60, 70, 80% HRR) from Monday. Once I get going it feels ok but that first build up to 80% is hard work.
For me it feels much harder than running. 80% on the bike is tough; much harder than running and maybe the heat and fewer external stimuli make it feel more intense. Maybe I'm just not used to it.
Marrow - I misunderstood your tempo paces; they look quicker than I would expect for a 1:28-1:30 runner. Didn't realise they were possibly incorrect.
Lou - Sounds like a good session all the same. Yeah, I think there are parallels with running on a treadmill; "perceived effort" is skewed by the mental aspects of staring at the same walls and not having the wind in your face.
Once you've hardened up a bit, I can thoroughly recommend a steady two hours on the turbo whilst watching The Sound of Music. Don't forget your towel!