Overdone it?



  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Welcome Phil, good luck on that.

    Might you consider Wokingham instead/ as well as? The year I did both, I found Reading to be about 90sec slower.

    In fairness it wasn't a "fair" comparison, as I'd massively targetted Wokingham, had a week off injured in between, and was probably a little less up for Reading, as I felt the work had been done. Reading does have a couple of mild hills, compared to Wokingham's 3 or 4 motorway bridge inclines though.

  • Thanks Phil - there are a lot of us 'mid life crisis' runners!

    If you want to post your training runs and weekly schedules on here that would be great - would be interested to compare what you are doing and how your times are improving.

    Will also be great to have someone training for a race beyond mine to help me keep focus post 7th October.

    You never know Stevie might even throw in a couple of tips for you too??image

    Cheers, Skinny

    PS Coach, done my 6 mile Easy with Strides this lunchtime - ready for my first big test tomorrow.image

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Nice one Skinny, you're nice and ready.

    2miles warm up starting with easy jogging, ending with a few strides will get you primed for the race.

    Then it's just a case of smashing it as hard as you can on the day, and we'll see where you are.Good luck!

  • Good luck Skinny,dont be a Jessie,and just nail it lad

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    hope you smashed it Skinny boy.

    Expect a good full report tomorrow mate...splits, feelings, atmosphere...you know the drill from my thread image

  • Sod tomorrow - your getting it tonight!

    First of all my excuses - I believe this is traditional and necessary to be calling yourself a 'proper' runner (as well as running a sub 3:30 Marathon of courseimage) - felt really off colour last night and all today and I've never been so nervous before a race in my life - my legs were almost twitching waiting at the start - was really worried I was going to bomb out - I think I was also feeling a bit of pressure because of you putting some effort into my running and it was probably the wrong week for Cowboy and Phil to suddenly pop out of the woodwork and announce they were following my efforts (I felt like a mini version of Jess ennis in the Olympics and was worried I would turn into Rebecca Adlington!).

    Anyhow approximately 42:20 (definitely less than 42:27) - was well down the ropey thing when remembered where I was and stopped my watch.

    Mile splits as follows 6:53, 6:51, 6:46, 6:51, 6:40, 6:40 and 6:10 speed for last 0.25ish.

    My garmin tells me that my fastest speed during the last bit was 4:54 pace which i know is bollox but makes me feel good.

     Absolutely shagged when I'd finished but within 2 mins was able to jog across car park and back.

    After about a mile and a half thought I was really going to struggle to hold pace but just dug in and focussed on the next back in front of me. No one passed me during whole race.

    The route is really flat and although it starts and finishes at the same point it has a remarkable feeling of running more downhill than uphill - really good PB course.

    Anyhow off home now to talk to wife about non running stuff but I'm sure I'll have more post run excitement to discuss tomorrow.

    Sorry about long post but i'm well chuffed - thanks for your efforts coach - bring on The Cumbrian Run!!image

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Excellent work Skinny lad and I feel a sense of pride. I hoped you'd be in that kind of mixer, but I wasn't going to say it to add to the pressure image

    42:20 would be 6.49 pace average, so it's good to see the 6.52 I've had you working to was pretty close.

    It also means you're well on course to break the 1hr 35 in the big one, as McMillan suggests you can do a 1:34:23 from that. (That's 7.12 pace, and I've had you working to 7.10 for HMP)

    In my experience, I've never hit the 10k McMillan's race calculator suggests I can hit from my half, but have always comfortably beaten the half my 10k suggests I can do. So that bodes excellently, with a few weeks work until the big day.

    The interesting thing with your race is you kept it sensible for 4miles, and then utterly smashed 2 miles in 6.40s and saw that through to the finish. I've never managed to keep to that strategy, as I'm very much a hard out, and hold on type,but your approach won out tonight.

    Not letting anyone pass all race shows you have the heart of a competitor as well, which will massively help along the journey we've started.

    Enjoy the moment for now mate, and I'd recommend you just do a very slow 3mile recovery run tomorrow, slow as you like, and then take the next day off.

    I'll have a look at my little plan of your training at work tomorrow, and see how we move forward tomorrow. But the easy couple of days is essential for now, to see how you recover, and to help you avoid the temptation to try and smash on too soon image

    ps it's your thread mate, long posts after a quality race are essential...your public demand it!


  • I knew you would nail it Skinny lad.Well done fella.As Stevie said above its your thread so you can post whatever you like on here.

    Enjoy your recovery mate  and i look forward to reading about the next progression for you.

    Once again well done

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    right, Skinny, I've inputted all your training into a spreadsheet now, so it'll be easier to monitor.

    I've had a quick review of the 10weeks of the plan so far, and they come out like this, with key session + long run included.

    1. 32.7miles         6m MP,  13m long run
    2. 5.5miles           illness week
    3. 34.1miles         3x2m HMP, 13.1m long run
    4. 36.2miles          6.5m MP, 13.4m long
    5. 23.5miles          3x0.5m at 3k pace (your freestyled session + 8m steady) long run done the next Monday
    6. 38miles             previous week's long run + Half Marathon Race off roader
    7. 22miles            3miles easy, 3miles steady, 3miles HMP, + injury reduced week
    8. 35miles            3xMP+3xHMP, 13mile long
    9. 33.5miles          45mins in 5min segments HMP-MP, 13.5m long
    10. 18miles so far.   42:20 10k race

    The races cloud the stats a bit, as naturally you reduce before one, and then recovery after, but generally 35miles is the figure we've been aiming for, made up of a 10/10.5mile session, 13-14mile long and a couple of 4-6s.


    Let me know how you recover over the next 2 days, and I'll set the weekend schedule and beyond.

  • Thanks Cowboy - legs are feeling it a bit today but not in an injury way which is good.

    Coach - some reflections on last night. Things I learned.

    1) I'm putting a lot of effort into my running now so I'm going to feel a bit nervous before every race now - I'm not just turning up hoping for the best, I'm training hard to do my best - last night was good as I will be able to better deal with this nervousness and worry next time.

    2) The long slow runs work! I have done no training at the kinds of speed I was running last night and it hurt from about 1 mile onwards BUT every time I pushed on I had the strength in my legs. The last 150m was on a running track and just before we entered the stadium I had passed about 5 people - I was worried about one of them raising a sprint finish and moving back past me so I upped my pace. Normally that would be it then - if the guy ran past me I would not have anything left. However this time I heard some people in the crowd and the announcer start shouting 'c'mon Neil' in an excited way so guessed one of the local runners was closing on me - I just dug in and suddenly I was sprinting (trust me!image) down the track and through the finish line - Neil had no chance!!

    3) If I keep the training sensible and stay injury free I can go faster.

    4) I need to think hard about my starting line position - last night  was about 100 back in a field of about 250 - I was able to find my running then move through the field - that worked for me. But I never found myself running beside anyone going at same pace as me so I could just run and feed off their pace - perhaps I need to push myself slightly further forward next time but that would then sacrifice the 'passing people' buzz.

     5) The simple fact of posting on here was a big positive effect in my effort last night - whenever it was hurting badly (lungs mainly) I thought of target time and you and Cowboy and Phil reading my report if it was a pants time - this kept me pushing on through the pain to ensure it was a good result.

    Cheers everyone, Skinny

  • My last post crossed with yours Coach - using a spread sheet on me now - Christ! I'm going to have to really up my efforts.

    I'm guessing the 18 miles this week so far is made up of the 6 Easy with Strides, 2 mile WU last night and 6.25 race plus 3 mile Super Easy today which I haven't done yet. I didn't get a warm down run last night because someone gave me a lift and it was about an hour drive so stretching session and shower was all I managed.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Nice one Skinny. What we're currently doing with your training is doing 2 things, laying a general structure, and targetting that half marathon in October.

    If we were to be targetting a 10k, naturally I'd have you doing some 10k and faster rep work. Of course, the faster you train, the more chance of injury, which we have to be careful with.

    In an ideal world we'd have you running 50-60miles a week, and have 2 hard sessions a week, the tempo as per now, and also some reps, which would target 10k and below pace.

    However, I think from your current mileage and little bit of injury record it would be too much to give you 2 hard sessions at this point.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Skinny Fetish Fan wrote (see)

    My last post crossed with yours Coach - using a spread sheet on me now - Christ! I'm going to have to really up my efforts.

    I'm guessing the 18 miles this week so far is made up of the 6 Easy with Strides, 2 mile WU last night and 6.25 race plus 3 mile Super Easy today which I haven't done yet. I didn't get a warm down run last night because someone gave me a lift and it was about an hour drive so stretching session and shower was all I managed.


    Yep, i put you down in the log as M 6, W 2+6.2+0.8 cd, and 3 today...

    Make sure you get that post race cool down of a minimum of a half mile after future races...I certainly know sometimes the last thing you want to do is a little jog, but it'll help you recover for sure. I've even done some 2mile cool downs before, thinking, i wanna be chatting with my pals post race not doing this!!

  • Coach - yeah it was another guy who was running in the race wife so was a bit awkward to keep her waiting - next time will jsut take my own car.

    Re training - I think we are both thinking same way - I have a very specific target of a 1:34 HM on 7th October - 1:34 will leave me happy.

    We should not up the training and aim for better than this - that can be the next goal once I have the 1:34 in my bag. Upping the training might risk injury and I suspect that four good weeks of uninterrupted training even at current levels might be enough to sneak lower than 1:34 which would be brilliant!

    Got a busy day ahead of me now - lots of meetings and visitors so report back late Friday.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    I think you should have a sub 1hr 35 in you now, but running has a way of ruining best laid plans, be it weather, the course and a million other factors.

    Therefore, I think 3 weeks of good training, and then a very easy week in the lead up to the 7th will stand you in good stead.

    Just remind me, did you have that America business trip coming up in the next few weeks?

    Otherwise, let;s see how you fare from today's 3, and tomorrow's rest, and I'll set the schedule accordingly.

  • Quick lunchtime update - results now in - 51st out of 234 in 42:13 so about a sec a k faster than I reported. Winning time 31:33.

    My next two weeks are messy but I will just have to work round my commitments to get the running in.

    Next week Monday to Thursday I am travelling round UK to various business sites - I should be able to fit in Easy on Monday and Quality on Wednesday night though.

    Then Sunday I fly to Denver - I may go for LSR really early on Sunday morning as I always struggle to sleep on plane so this might help.

    That would leave me a Monday and Wednesday session to fit in whilst I am over there - Friday will be a write off as flying all day - and Sunday shoudl be back to normal.

    I have told my boss in Denver that this is a key training week for me and she is digging out a 6 mile and 11 mile route for me to do and has suggested I might need to leave meeting early on Wednesday night to fit this in before drinking later - that works for me!image

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    That's a fair chunk quicker than you said....42:13 great stuff image

    From that time I'll slightly tweak your training zones, starting from next Monday,

                         Old Zone                      New Zone

    Easy     8.30-9.00                              8.25-9.00   
    Steady  7.40-8.15                              7.35-8.10
    MP        7.30                                     7.20-7.25
    HMP      7.10                                    7.00-7.05
    10k        6.52                                    6.45-6.48

    As long as you get the quality and the long run in for the next 2 weeks you'll be ok. If you have to lose an easy run that can be brushed off.

    Let me know that you're feeling well after the Sunday long run this week, and I'll compose next week's schedule.


  • Coach 13.8 miles in 2:01.

    Funny run - felt super easy for first six and was already writing my report to you in my head - by 8 miles I was thinking of taking a short cut home! Anyway completed and now stretching various parts of my body that didn't seem to enjoy second half of run at all.

    Anyhow I'm ready for next week - may make easy run on Monday a super easy if not quite shaken off today's effort.

    Cheers, Skinny  

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Probably a natural reaction to a hard race on Wednesday Skinny. But it was key to get the long run in, the staple of the training plan, and you made it through.

    Make tomorrow a 4miler, as easy as you like, and I'll think about the rest of the week tomorrow with the "magic spreadsheet" image

  • Okay Coach, easy 4 out of way - what does computer say for rest of week?

    Cheers, Skinny
  • Hi Skinny - it's funny/great to read your comment that you were feeling that you needed to perform cos we're out here watching (reading) your progress, and youre doing us all proud! I'm not sure I'm quite brave enough to enter into the goldfishbowl of 'forum training', though am very glad you're doing it as I can't be the only one who's learning lots from your training and tweaks and experience. Keep up the great work (both). Phil

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Right, I'm presuming you're feeling good and recovered.

    I've mapped out the 4 weeks to the race day, and I plan on breaking it down like this. This mirrors the approach to my best half marathon build up.

    1. quality session and long run ending with medium quality section
    2. quality session and longest long run you've done (easy pace)
    3. medium long run with strides, and quality long run
    4. Light target pace reps and RACE

    So, the details to this week

    • Mon               4miles easy (done)
    • Wed               10miles,  2.5m easy, 2.5m tempo (6.55-7.00 pace), 2.5m easy, 2.5m tempo
    • Fri                  6miles easy
    • Sun               14miles (8miles easy, 6miles steady through to MP)

    Remember, that your 10k pb gave you new time zones as below

    Easy    8.25-9.00
    Steady 7.35-8.10
    MP      7.20-7.25
    Tempo 6.55-7.00
    HMP   7.00-7.05
    10K    6.45-6.48

    I think from your 10k these will be effective new zones.

    Wednesday is a tough little session, and Sunday will be your first taste of combining a long run with faster paces.

    For Sunday, I've given you licence to decide how much you run at Steady, and how much at MP in that last 6miles.

    See how you get on with that little lot.



  • Thanks Coach - Wed does sound like a tough session but that's what the Quality session is all about - might have to lay off the sauce tonight with that facing me in the morning though!!

    Thanks for setting out plan too - that really helps - 6 hard training runs to survive then I'm ready for Race Day.

    Phil - thanks for words of encouragement!


  • Okay coach - big fail this morning.

    I am a mild exercise induced asthmatic and cold air seems to make worse - forgot to bring my inhaler which sorts problem so after about the first 'easy' mile and a half I was already sounding like a faulty whistle and when I upped the pace after about 0.25 miles it was too much and had to slow down.

    I've found that I do kind of recover during a run so kept going and was able to do what I think would be like a fartlek session where whenever I felt sufficiently able to breath properly I would go faster again but was never able to sustain that pace for very long and then had to recover again. As it warmed up towards end of my run I was able to speed up a little but unfortunately I was never going to get close to session required.

    A shame as looking at trainnig session this felt like the one to reinforce the speed from last week before upping the endurance effort - so sorry but at least I will remember inhaler for next weeks trip.

    Anyway for point of record here is the splits but none of the miles were run at an even pace (ignoring first two and last one).

    10.17 in 1:23:41

    9.09, 9.08, 8.09, 8.24, 7.59, 7.45, 8.03, 7.39, 7.20, 8.38, and WD last bit.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Not to worry Skinny, it's always best to complete the session through altering it, then just pack it in (barring injury obviously!)

    Making it into a Fartlek seems the best freestyled version so that's ok.

    This was probably the hardest session, as it involves getting upto a hard speed, reducing it down, then having to hit it again. And that's not to mention that 2.5miles is a hefty chunk at that pace. The other big sessions will see you reach a bi of a crescendo, and once you're there you stay at that pace.

    Have to go on your judgement on the Asthma-Inhaler side of things, as I've no real knowledge of any of that...I'm relying that you know how to handle it, and know when to stop etc?

    Don't want to see you collapse before the big race image

  • Hi coach - been busy - no need for you to worry about the asthma - it seems to force me to slow down well before I am in any really serious trouble (and normally I have used inhaler prior to start of my run - never need to take it with me).

    Getting picked up from my house at 9am on Sunday morning so I make that a 6am rise and shine to squeeze in 14 miles before a 19 hour door to door journey to Denver.

    'Runners - yeah, we're different!' - as the Adidas advert used to say! 

    Cheers, Skinny


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    6am wake ups on a sunday...welcome to my regular routine image

    I don't normally follow it up with a plane ride though.....make sure you stretch very well, as you don't want to seize up in the plane

  • Better make that 5.30am thenimage

  • Skinny ,having  your own thread on here takes a bit of guts bud.As you mentioned earlier about how you didnt want to fail on your recent 1ok,and the thought of having too come back on here and explain any shortcomings was what made you push on.That to me is a good pressure to have and you delivered when it mattered  so you can only go from strength to strength in the future. whens the target half marathon again?

    Enjoy your long run and i echo what Stevie says,stretch,stretch and stretch some more before you board the plane


  • Hi YC - think its the week after your marathon with Nessie - 7th October.

    Coach - another change to your plan - if i miss this 1:34 it won't be your plan - it will be my failure to stick to it - with being away last week and next week Friday night run just didn't fit in with family plans - so shelved the 6 mile easy and moved the 14 miler forward to today as wife has other plans for before I go tomorrowimage.

    So 14 miles + 0.5 mile WD - splits as follows:-

    8.25,8.50,8.54,8.31,8.42,9.02,8.31,(7 miles easy) 8.08,7.42,7.34 (3 miles steady) 7.18,7.15,7.16,7.13 (4 miles just inside MP).

    Felt good - good stretch tonight and I'll go for a few good embarrassing stretching exercises in the airports to pass the time but will be harder during the flights. Sure I'll be fine - ready for next week - again next week Friday is not going to happen as full travel day so Monday, Wed, Sunday sessions required.

    Cheers, Skinny

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