Overdone it?



  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Yep, I appreciate your situation as a family man, with very taxing sounding job is different from my single, all systems go situation, but that's ok.

    Because you haven't ever had that full on approach it actually means even into your mid and late 40s you can still break new ground.

    The key is the staying injury free. I'm sure the physio will give you some new bespoke strengthening stuff, and it's a good idea to do a little regime every day, and not just react to injuries as they occur.

    All being well, I look forward to hearing from you in a couple of weeks, and we'll have a good 4 week build up to the 10miler, before 100% deciding how to take you on further.image

    10k wise you'll comfortably beat the time you have as a pb at the moment. Sub 40 is very much the obvious target.

    You'll read certain threads where some people reckon you're not even a decent club runner until  you're going sub 35, but realistically, and in the scheme of things, sub 40 is still a target to be satisfied by.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Skinny Fetish Fan wrote (see)

    PS Have I just entered pre school or got my 11+??image

    By the time I finish with you, you'll be studying for a degree hopefully image

  • Hi Coach - beautiful day up here today so couldn't resist going out and stretching my legs for 3.4 miles (about 29mins for record) - can still feel Sunday in my legs but not in a bad way. Knee just the same - starting to wonder if it is not running related, might be with walking the dog in some bad fitting cheap wellies (gone back to walking boots now) - you would have thought if it was running related it would have been seriously aggravated by my fastest ever 13 miles on Sunday but no change whatsoever! Anyway hopefully physio will sort that.

    On a separate note I've noticed I have a unique opportunity which I will keep an eye on as month progresses - the Run Britain Rankings are based on last 5 qualifying runs - I've now done 5 but my first was a 2hr 7min HM I did with my daughter 2 years ago - if I did a park run in about 20 mins before end of month then the slow HM is replaced by a fast (in comparison) 5k and my handicap plummets about 4.2 - as I am currently already down over 1.8 for this month that would give me an outside chance of being (according to these rankings) most improved runner in country for October but would certainly be in top 10.

    Not really interested (don't even know what one is!!) an Adidas MiCoach or Sennheiser Headphones but someone in family might be so would be good to have something to show for all this running I've been doing.

    And just imagine - you could claim that after taking me under your wing within 4 months you had transformed me into most improved runner in UK!!image

    Only problem is that nearest Park Run is about 60 miles away!!image

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Only thing to bear in mind with a park run off your mileage, is that it'd have to be instead of your weekly quality session.

    Otherwise it's fine to do it, and still get your long run in the next day.

    I don't personally like those RB rankings, they seem utter nonsense if you don't race too often.

    For example, it tells me to drop my handicap I need to only run a 10k 65 seconds SLOWER than the 10k I did on sunday...and even sunday's time is 21seconds slower than my pb.

    how does that work?

    get the prognosis on Friday. Think through exactly when and where it aches and make sure you get your value out of the physio, making sure you reveal you're a power of 10 quality runner, and need a permanent strengthening strategy rather than a short term fix.


  • Definitely a load of shite if you want any real info about who is better than who but pretty reliable if you want to work out that someone who has a 5 handicap is a better runner than someone with a 20 handicap. Also I am a 5 handicap golfer so it has given me a target to try and be a single figure handicap runner too! Not sure there are any golf running duathlons though!!image

    ''making sure you reveal you're a power of 10 quality runner,'' imageimageimage

    PS Haven't played golf for 3 months so that has not caused the knee injury.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    You've timed your entry onto the power of 10 rankings well mate...as recently as about 6months ago, you needed a 1:20 or quicker half to even get a ranking! Then they decided to loosen stuff a bit.

    But yes, not long to wait until the physio appointment.

  • I suppose I'm the kind of dross runner you good runners think it is scandalous they have let get on to the rankings!image I was quite demotivated to see I was 5,613th on list!

    Anyway - 1:20 - to be a proper Power of 10 ite - sounds like the kind of target that I would be better to ignore for now!! I'll put it in the sub 35 minute 10k box!

    PS I notice there is space for me to register my coach - should I put you on? I notice you haven't put your coach?


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Haha of course not mate, what we all realise in running is that it's all relative.

    Trust me, there's plenty of runners who would think i'm pitifully slow!

    You may have logged the 5,613rd quickest UKA half marathon time in 2012, but think how many millions of runners enter half marathons.

    16,000 alone enter the Reading half, and that's just one race!

    Then consider how many millions of people wouldn't be able to complete a half marathon. You've plenty to be proud of, sub 1hr 30 is a great benchmark to hit.

    Up to you on the coach bit.  I am coaching you, but I'm strictly from the "my own experience" and from the coaching I've received sides of things, rather than having any qualifications like a lot of coaches!

    Having said that, I'm certain I'm better equipped to get you faster than some coaches who hold proper qualifications, if training from my old club is anything to go on!!

  • I reckon I would have achieved 1:34 without your input, got 1:29 with your input - in 14 weeks of input including a week missed through illness - what is coaching except providing instruction on how to do something better?? And surely a coach is judged on their results?? Hey Presto - you're a Coach!!image

    Not sure how you are going to improve my running style though without getting my wife to video and put on you tube! I suppose you could look at my photos from last weekend on MyBibNumber and pass comment? Bit worried my arms are a bit high and passive (operate a bit like I'm cradling a baby) in comparison to the runners who were ahead of me but perhaps there are as many styles as there are runners?

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    It is possible to change your running style, but I think as long as it's not causing you injury, it's best left to nature. 

    Just the vague idea of trying to stay loose when you run, which can be helped by stretching and strengthening a lot, and trying to stay as spread out where possible, rather than the classic hunched position a lot of us desk jockeys fall foul of.

    Also, the "strides" that we sometimes throw into easy runs, or are used when warming up to a hard effort session can be good for training form. They're fast RELAXED sprints, and teach you to keep form at higher speeds.

  • Stevie G . wrote (see)

    I don't personally like those RB rankings, they seem utter nonsense if you don't race too often.

    For example, it tells me to drop my handicap I need to only run a 10k 65 seconds SLOWER than the 10k I did on sunday...and even sunday's time is 21seconds slower than my pb.

    how does that work?

    Coach - its a bit the same in golf - my best score round a par 72 golf course is 69 which suggests my handicap should be -3 but its actually 5 which is because it is aimed to produce a handicap which is slightly better than your average round. So my handicap would come down if I went round in 76 even though that is 7 more than my best ever round.

    The RB rankings are much more simplistic as they are just based on our last 5 runs - so I'm sure if you did five 10k runs all in the same time then your handicap would stay the same if you ran your 6th run in the same time, go up if you ran it slower and go down if you ran it faster. Runners probably deal with less variables than golfers so are able to deliver more consistent performances (my golf scores this year have ranged from 69 to 92!).

    Where the RB rankings really seem to struggle though is trying to compare 5k runners and marathon runners and adjust handicaps based on performances over all the different distances. Not sure what conversion table they use.

  • Hi Coach - just got back from physio. At one point I'm on the far side of her couch and she's behind me and she tells me she wants me on the near side of the couch - so I move across but feel a bit balanced on the edge at which point I utter the words I want to take back immediately 'You won't pull me off will you?' imageimageimageimage 

    Her very deliberately stated reply of 'Don't worry, I won't pull you off' said it all!!imageimageimage

    Anyhow other than that it was a great visit. She runs marathons (incl last weekend)and has done an Ironman so she knew her stuff and had an interest.

    None of my injuries require me to stop running and she's given me 4 additional exercises to do that I currently haven't been doing.

    1) Apparently I have two calf muscles on each leg and one of them on my left leg is not as stretched/flexible/strong as one on my right leg so got an exercise involving bending my knee towards the wall with my toe same distance from the wall as when I can just touch the wall doing same thing with my right leg.

    2) Hip strengthening - apparently my hips are a bit weak which will be putting more strains on my knees with each stride - lifting and circling on my side for each leg.

    3) Achilles strengthening - on a step but transferring weight across to my right side, lifting, then weight back on to my left side then lowering - 45 times, 3 times a day - WOW! Might get worse before it gets better .

    4) Knee pain - seems I have very tight ITBs particularly on my left side so she has prescribed foam rollering my ITBs and also my quads (apparently I have very strong inner quads for a runner?/ I also have very flexible kneecaps??).

    Anyway good trip and if it gets worse in next 4 weeks I can make an appointment direct with her to go back. Excellent! 

    Might squeeze an LSR in on Saturday before flying on Sunday.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    didn't think knee caps were the kind of thing that could be flexible!

    but anyway, well done on taking that all in. These physios love to bark out their advanced knowledge and itn can go above your head sometimes....

    do all that stuff, and hopefully it's ful steam ahead.

    do what can you do this next week, and we'll start up again next week.

  • Okay Coach - back and just run 5.3 miles 'easy' in 44.30 - felt horrible - hopefully I just needed the run and will be back to normal on Sunday - see how I feel but will go for LSR between 10 and 13 - aim for 13 but plan an escape route if feels as hard as today.

    No running during my trip - Saudi wouldn't have felt safe, Bahrain only there during day and 40 degrees - was too hot sitting in shade!! Don't really do treadmills - perhaps on the more dodgy trips I shouild try using the treadmills because often they have them in hotels - just so boringimage.

    Anyway good luck in CP and you can set me next week's training come Monday.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    wasn't a bad time to have a complete week of rest in fairness.

    Get through sunday, and leave some feedback here, then we'll begin the brief run in to the 10mile race in a few weeks. After that we'll formalise where we go from there.

    Nice pic!

  • Beautiful day for running up here today - out at sunrise and just wonderful autumn colours throughout run - felt okay so added an extra couple of miles in so I could take my most scenic route and enjoy - 15 miles in 2hrs 8mins.

    Anyway enough about me - great run by you today - I'm guessing you beat your PB by comparing your time today with when Moraghan started tailoring your training (fantastic improvement over that period) - did you run a more even pace this time?

    Cheers, Skinny
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Good run mate, and I'll get to the drawing board early tomorrow to work your schedule, and check when your 10mile race is! Getting you working at 10mile pace, ie true tempo, ie threshold pace seems sensible though.

    Ta pal. Today's pb is 1:15 quicker than the 10mile pb Moraghan led me to last year....check the first page of my thread for where i was when i began with him.

    Waffled a long report on my thread...i won't make your thread about me by going into it too much here image

  • Hi Coach - I'd already compared your time to that but didn't want to say how much better it was as you hadn't posted your race report (I'd been doing a bit of stalking of my own!). Just didn't know your current PB - Seven seconds a mile is a lot to knock off at your level - congrats!

    10 miler is on 17th November - still undecided on park run effort next Saturday - tempting but I think I'd rather just focus on 17th.

    Talk tomorrow - cheers, Skinny
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    the best bit of a new ground pb is that you can check out McMillan and see what ridiculous times it reckons for other distances. Normally I find the 5k-10k times it gives are pretty unobtainable from the longer ones!

    Sounds wise, park run isn't too important, whereas laying down something akin to your half time at the 10miler is.

  • Haha - yeah, I had that fun with my 1:29! Bet sub 35 looks like a piece of piss now!

    Cheers, Skinny
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    well, certainly looks easier than the 34:12 McMillan's calculator suggests image

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Right, 4 weeks to the target 10miler.

    You should have the fitness in you already to produce a good time for the 10miler in respect to the half marathon just raced.

    Therefore, I want to break the 4 weeks down like this. In keeping with the sturcture, you have your long run, your quality run, and 2 easy runs.

    • Week 1, ease back into top mileage, with a medium hard MP session at the new pace zones to get you used to step up in training paces
    • Week 2, something more concentrated around your new 10mile race pace
    • Week 3, something mixing a range of paces around your 10mile race pace
    • Week 4, light race pace reps on the Tuesday

    Therefore, this week

    M           5mile easy
    W          11miles including, 3mile easy to steady warm up, 7miles MP, 1mile cd
    F           5m easy
    Su        14mile long run


    Remember your new pace zones are

    Date Easy Steady MP HMP Tempo 10K 8th October 8.05-9.00 7.20-7.50 7.05-7.10 6.45 6.40 6.30-6.35
  • Thanks Coach - sounds good although some of those training paces sound frightening!!image

    Bit of history of race belowfor your info as I know you've just done CP which is a big 'runners' race down south. I'm a little confused by facts below as the course record is faster than the Cabbage Patch record time even though that is supposed to be fastest. I'm guessing that Cabbage Patch starts and finishes at same point whereas B2C is point to oint and finish is lower than start - it is a very fast course - first several hundred yards are sharply downhill so your leg cadence can get really fast straight away - never ran it in a good enough shape to take advantage before!

    Brampton to Carlisle 10 Mile Road Race

    The Wm Coulthard & Co Ltd Brampton to Carlisle 10 Mile Road Race    organised by Border Harriers & Athletic Club is the oldest 10 mile    road race in the United Kingdom. The first race was completed in   1952. The course takes the competitors from Brampton to Carlisle via   the  B6264 and is fast and accurately measured by a UK Athletics   accredited  measurer. Previous winners include Steve Cram and Ron Hill.


    Course records are Men: Nick Sloan – 45min 50 sec.  Women: Angie Pain – 51min 50sec.

  • Also just noticed date has changed to Sunday 18th November so better sort out kitchen calendar at home!!!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, I'm not sure on the CP supposed record, as I'm sure the GSR has a faster winning time too. Might well be like you mention, about the out and back nature. Or the elevation might be "Illegal"

    However, outside the elite level, it all counts, and your time will count as long as it's power of 10 friendly!

    See how you go with the training paces. It's natural that the new paces will feel tough after a breakthrough, whereas they felt pretty easy for you beforehand.

  • I see I need sub 67 to get on Po10 - so that's my initial target confirmed! If you look at the 2011 listings Brampton appears quite regularly so it is Po10 friendly (its Northern Athletics Champs so you would think so!).

    One of my friends has done 66:27 so that is a time I would really like to hit but I think I can deal with the extra 33 secs on the day one way or the other depending on how I'm feeling.

    I suppose if my new tempo pace is 6:35 then I should be aiming for sub 66 - again a slow first mile is nearly impossible so I can just deal with this on the day - first of all I'd better concentrate on getting 3 weeks good quality training done.image 

  • Also just noticed date has changed to Sunday 18th November so better sort out kitchen calendar at home!!!

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Skinny, for a second there you had me worried I'd set too fast zones.

    But I checked back, and your tempo will be 6.40, your 10k pace is 6.30-6.35.

    It didn't come out too clearly on the other page, so let me re-write it as RW isn't allowing edits at the mo

    • EASY        8.05-9.00
    • STEADY   7.20-7.50
    • MP            7.05-7.10
    • HMP         6.45
    • TEMPO    6.40
    • 10K          6.30-6.35

    Before my race yesterday, using my half marathon pb, the time it predicted me was within 1 second of my actual 10mile pb. Therefore, I think the prediction from half to 10m is spot on, whereas it gives times a bit too quick as you go to the shorter stuff.

    Therefore, 1:29:08 half pb is 6.48 per mile, and thus your 10mile would be 7seconds quicker for 6.41

    A 6.41 10miler would give you 66:50, so sub 67 looks a spot on target to me.

  • 5.1 in 43mins done.

    Thanks - just misread. Kitchen calendar sorted.

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    how'd the wed session go mate,

    Want to keep a keen eye on how you're doing with the new training zones bearing in mind they've taken a step forward.

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