Overdone it?

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  • Thanks coach - that has really helped me make up my mind. I'll hopefully confirm everything went okay on Wednesday.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • 3 miles 25 mins - no actual problems although plenty of imagined ones!!

    Surrounded by illness at home and at work - every morning I wake up and first thought is have I got a sore throat - doing my head in - Sunday can't get here soon enough!

    Will report back Thursday morning after easy 5.

    Cheers, Skinny

    PS While I remember - do I do strides in my WU on Sunday?

  • a pre big race week wouldn't be complete without worrying about feeling sluggish or slightly ill...best of luck in riding it out til sunday!

    Less important for the strides for a half marathon than shorter distance races.

    Shorter the race, the longer the warm up needed....so i'd only worry about doing a 1miler or so, couple of racepace strides if you want.

  • 5.2 miles easy in 44 mins - knee felt fine except when I changed my stride suddenly to avoid a big lump of cow dung when could feel same feeling - so something is not right with it but don't think it will stop me getting to start line on Sunday now - hopefully that magic race day adrenaline will keep any problem at bay until race is finished. Then physio can tell me what is wrong with it on 12th.

    Have been battling a sore throat for last two days but just hoping that the same magic adrenaline will keep that at bay too!!

    That adrenaline is going to be busy come Sunday!!

    Re race plan I've now modified my plan to be sub 28:30 at 4 mile point - 29 was too slow and reduces my options for second half of race (based on 7,plus 3 @ 7.10). Then next 5 miles in 6.55 - 7 range (some nice running miles in those 5) for  about 34.45 making 9 mile target 63:15.

    Then its just a case of keeping that pace going for as long as I can - there is a short fast downhill section with about 1.5 miles to go with no further uphill - if I get to that feeling okay I will surf the pace off that to try and blast the last mile and a half.

    Race target 1:32:30 - 1:34 - I'm in good shape (best running shape I've ever been in provided knee holds up and I don't get ill!!) but I'm not in sub 1:30 shape and I need to keep that out of my mind as a bad race pace strategy could stop me getting sub 1:35.

    Would welcome any observations you have. I know in the actual race anything could happen and depends how I feel but I'm a great believer in targets and plans and gives me something to think about other than how much its hurting!

    Cheers, Skinny

    PS Young Cowboy - if you're out there lurking well done on completing your first marathon - I know you were disappointed with your time but completing a marathon is an achievement in itself - something I've never even tried!

  • Cheers Skinny lad,i now realise that doing 5 long runs totalling 96 miles wasnt going too get me my time,bit naive to think that to be honest.

    3 things to be looked at

    1 underestimated how hard it would be from 18 miles at that monster of a hill at Dores.

    2 naivety/over confidence on my part thinking all i had too do was turn up and get my time in regards too the training i had done for it.

    3 NOT ENOUGH BASE MILEAGE BEFORE STARTING THE 16 WEEK PROGRAMME.

    But hey ho you live and learn and ive got 2 A races for next year and ive got a more structured programme nearly finalised on paper for them.

    Enough about me lad,this weeks all about you.Under stevies guidance i predict your finishing time to within 10 seconds either way  of 1.33 17.

    Good luck fella and just remember youve had a good mentor in Stevie G and trust in your training.

    Dont be a mumpty at the start and that pb is yours

    All the best pal

    David

  • Meant to say"numpty" not mumpty lol

     

  • Coach - had in laws round last night and had a couple of glasses of red wine - woke up this morning - sore throat gone - just the knee and my pace to worry about now!

    Weather also looks set fair with a light wind - 7 degrees C bit cold for my lungs but manageable.

    Finally starting to look forward to it.image

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Skinny, hopefully the knee holds up for sunday.

    let me put my sensible coach hat on for a second, and just say if you do find you're slipping into pain territory rather than that "working hard and its uncomfortable" feeling, then consider dropping out. Barring an Olympic final, one race is never important enough to risk a long lay off for.

    That said, all being well, I am certain you'll smash the race on Sunday. I really look forward to reading the report.

    Sounds like you have in mind a decent strategy. I'd love to say keep the first mile sensible, but I've never managed that in a race myself, so can't really advise anyone else to.

    From the training paces I'd set, 7.10 was your original, and then the new one was 7:00-7:05 based from your 10k race., Therefore, you should be able to run 7.10 pacing as your bottom line figure, and quicken as you feel good.

    Young Cowboy has it correct, you're certainly in pb form, so remember the hard sessions you've come through pretty comfortably, and race hard and keen on the day.

    Drop me your mobile number on a pm, and I'll be in touch on Sunday so I get your result asap image

     

  • Thanks - of course this is my first Olympic Final!image

    Race pace management may (may!!) be the one running thing I am better than you at!image

    I won't have my phone with me at race as nowhere to leave it so will probably be after 12 before I let you know success or fail.

    Either way I'd just like to thank you for all your help - both advice and motivational - I know that I have done more training than I would have done if I had been on my own and also that training has been better quality - thanks! and fingers crossed the result on Sunday will back that up.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Your capable of doing it,so just go out and smash it lad.

    Good luck and remember the race report

  • Skinny lad.......has some very exciting news....bearing in mind his target was sub 1hr 35

    over to you when you're recovered old son imageimage

  • Cmon Skinny you may have sore legs but am sure you fingers will be fine for typing.

    sub 1.30????? or close too it

  • Okay - been out to cinema this afternoon - wasn't keeping you in suspense deliberately.

    1:29.15 ish - may have been slightly less - forgot to stop watch again!! So excited I had hit sub 1:30!!!image

    Race report

    First split times

    7.01, 6.52, 6.44 (pacing suicide surely), 6.54 (eased off and uphill), 6.44, 6.45, 6.38 (what!!), 6.36, 6.46, 6.35 (???) - at this point I had done 10 miles but watch was showing 10.04 so had missed the split but time was still only just over 68 mins - at this point I did some maths and realised sub 1:30 was on. Final 3 miles 6.47, 6.46, 6.52 plus the bits whatever they were. Unbelievable - basically ran my 10k for a HM - is that supposed to happen?

    Some more details.

    Got myself much closer to front at start but did first half mile in 3:40 so then panicked a bit as didn't want a 7:20 first mile - hit 7.01 so must have pushed hard last 0.5. Knee first hurt just befroe two miles but never really got any worse throughout run fortunately - just kept reminding me I was there.

    With starting further forward I jsut found myself running amongst faster runners so I just sat alongside the mand took my turns at leading the pace.

    Only really started struggling at about 12.5 miles and I just locked on to a woman's back in front of me and dragged myself home.

    Can't believe it - that gives me a Power of 10 rating I think - WOOHOO!!image

    Thanks for your help coach - the future runnings for talking about tomorrow - tonight is party time!!

    YC - thanks for your interest and well wishes. Got to go and make tea as a penance for being out all morning.

    Cheers, Skinny

  • Shockingly good performance Skinny.

    I can honestly say you made my day, and that's on a day I had a nice little trip to the seaside for a race, and when my boys United beat Newcastle 3-0 away!image

    Pro rata, you smashed that 42:13 10k performance out of the water with todays. However, that shows why we pick  A big race, and have smaller races along the way.

    Enjoy tonight mate, and tomorrow we'll go through a few things

    • Getting your physio appointment dealt with
    • New pace zones based on today's result...that's right, you'll be working to faster zones now me laddo image
    • Picking some target races and working to them

    Until tomorrow!

    ps, clearly an easy recovery week coming up.....

    Monday   3mile very slow
    Tuesday  DAY OFF.

     

  • Hi Coach - sounds like your sticking with me then which was my first question!



    I have a list of targets (although need to review after today's shock result) and what I think is a sensible schedule of timescales which I will set out tomorrow for you to review.



    I also have a work trip coming up that will rule out running for a few days so don't put any thought into my new training plan yet!!



    Cheers, Skinny
  • Happy to stay on if you are. I'm certain with a mixture of my experience, and adapting the excellent coaching I receive to your position, that you'll go on to further glory.

    Don't get too fast though, or you'll be having to upgrade me image

    I'll be interested to see what your targets are. I presume the dodgy outpost location you live in will be a factor though. Depends what kind of fast races you have anywhere close.

    We'll look at the whole scenario tomorrow

  • Just want to say congratulations Skinny, I've been following this thread with interest (lurking?) for the past few weeks and trying to pick up a few tips to help me.

    You absolutely smashed it - nice one!

  • any other lurkers want to congratulate Skinny for his quite amazing display today? Now is your time...image

  • You took that by the scruff off the neck today Skinny and tore it to shreds mate.

    An absolute stormer of a result for you and very well deserved it is too.

    In the words of footy pundit Andy Gray "take a bow son,take a bow"

    Enjoy your easy week pal and al look forward to reading of your next progression with the help of Stevie G

  • Nice one skinny...sub 1:30 is freaking fast

  • Skinny....although they haven't actually added today's result to your power of 10 profile yet, you've done it again.

    You've understated your time!

    You actually came out 1:29:08 on the chip!!

    I notice that McMillan's race calculator predicts a 39:59 10k off that half time image

  • Well done Skinny - I'm hoping to hit sub-90 for a half in November, so this is an interesting thread for me...
  • Having a quick dabble with paces and suchlike.

    Very interesting that you hit 6:48 per mile average today, the exact same pace for your 10k the other week.

    Therefore, it's clear you need new pace zones drawn up immediately, and I work them out like this.

    10k                6.30-6.35
    Tempo           6.40
    HMP              6.45
    MP                 7.05-7.10
    Steady           7.20-7.50
    Easy               8.05-9.00

    At 6:33 pace for a 10k , you'll come out as 40:40, so I think a sub 40 10k ought to definitely be on your list of objectives.

    Like I wrote above, 1:29:08 calculates to 39:59, BUT, i think MacMillan tends to set too sharp shorter distance targets off longer. However, with the right lead up and a few months, it could be on the agenda.

  • Rest of family have settled down to watch Yawnton Abbey so thought I'd post about future plans tonight rather than tomorrow as got bit of a busy day.

    Nice surprise to find a few words of praise on here - thanks - no real need as the time itself was enough!! - but thanks anyway. And then the bigger surprise of finding out my new improved time from my Stalker Coach!image Haven't checked if you're right yet but I presume you worked out my name from my Dumfries time?

    Running wise I would like to have a rest for nearly the next two weeks (after recovery tomorrow). Firstly I would like to get a diagnosis on my knee and that is Friday before pounding it some more and then I'm off to Saudi Arabia for 5 days, Get back 18th by which time hopefully my knee and rest of my body will not only have recovered but also taken the gains from today's effort. Remember I'm a lot older than you!! Would plan to do a lot of stretching and core work in time when I would have been running.

    The next session all presumes my physio doesn't tell me my running 'career' is over.

    Future targets -  this is what they looked like before todays shock result - November 17th - 10 mile race go sub 70mins (Move this down now to sub 67 now?)

    Then I want to go back to shorter distances to try and build up my basic speed and move on back up through to another HM next year - same time. If I was younger I would go a year at 5k, year at 10k then year at HM but I'm not younger and I'm not built for those shorter distances. However to get really quick I need to increase my basic speed - when I run fast like today and in the 10k it is my thighs that feel sore afterwards - I'm built for long distance so logically to get better at it I need to work at the area that doesn't come naturally - speed.

    The nearest Park Run to me is about 60 miles away however starting end of November and for 4 months (which allows for a few weeks off if have a niggle) I want to train and aim for a 5k race but on 35 - 40 miles a week still. My target was sub 20 mins - not sure what it should be now?

    Then next 3 months train and aim for a 10k race - again still on 35 - 40 miles. Target was sub 40 mins - still ok?

    Finally start HM training for final 3 - 4 months building up to  45 - 50 miles and aim for same race again - my targets were sub 1:30 with a stretch target of sub 1:28 to beat a friends time - I suppose this might need to be closer to 1:25 now? However today could just have been a good day?

    Then I would run the 10 mile race again just as an easy follow on.

    Within 10k training would expect to run a couple of 5ks and similarly in HM training might slot in a couple of 10ks - these will be harder races to find round here.

    What do you think? I'm off to try and find out if you've got my result right! [EDIT - YAY - YOU HAVE!! imageimageimage

    Cheers, Skinny  

    This post crossed with yours.

  • Course I've got your time right son, I'm an experienced runner, checking people's times is second nature image

    Reading your aims, I think a decent plan would be along these lines

    • This week, 3miler tomorrow, then complete rest from Tuesday through to Friday, and see how the physio appointment goes.
    • Next week, all being well, gentle week 2-3 easy paced short runs (if possible in a country like Saudi)
    • Oct 22 to Nov 17, 4 week build up to 10mile race, sub 67 definitely the target (requires a 6.42 pace, I have your tempo pace 6.40)

     

    After that, I'd like to see you do a 2-3month base building period. This is a time you strengthen up, build mileage, and any speedwork is light. The bigger the base, the better the results.

    After that the faster work would kick in progressively.

    Then March-May  you should be ready for cracks at the 5k and 10k pbs. I wouldn't even want to put figures on it at the moment, as I'd feel that might limit things. However, sub 40, and probably sub 19:30 should be doable..

  • Hi Coach - well I can still walk and actually apart from some stiffness in my thighs feel okay.

    Training plan - right I think we need to discuss this so I understand how your plan works for me.

    My plan was to go back to short distance training and then build up with idea of taking that faster speed into longer distances.

    Your plan based on achieving same times is to stop any speed work at all for a few months and then hit the speedwork after some easy quality months?

    I suppose in my head I felt I had built a base over the last few months but perhaps my thinking is too short termist (based on 20 years of fast and easy race training for moderate race day performances) - now I am a rated Power of 10 athlete image I suppose my approach needs to be more long term!

    Nevertheless just for my own education I would like to understand some of the thinking behind the plan.

    Finally some info you probably won't like - I do not think I can commit to more than 4 days a week training for now - this is mainly due to having a job where I sometimes work long hours, am often away from home and have a wonderful wife who looks afer the family and supports me in everything I want to do but there is always a point where I need to recognise that I am taking advantage - so i'm drawing the line at 4 training runs per week - I think this will stop me reaching my full potential (and I may change my mind in a year or so once the 4 runs is ingrained into family life) but still plenty of scope for improvement I think?  Might even reduce my injuries - your guys on your thread all seem to be crocked half the time!image

    Cheers, Skinny

    PS Have I just entered pre school or got my 11+??image

  • The long and short of it, is that we're a bit constrained by the mileage. You were probably averaging about 32miles a week, which in the scheme of things is barely training.

    In an ideal world, we'd have you doing one long run, one tempo and personalised speedwork and as much easy running as possible.

     However, the  3 key runs alone would eat your mileage allowance up, therefore, what I've needed to do has been to prioritise the long run, as that's the key for half marathons, and then alternate between tempo and speedwork.

    Therefore, you haven't really done a real base period, and it's harder to set you training for a peak, without the ability to have both tempo and speedwork.

    However, at this stage, this training has been very effective, hence you smashing your pb so wildly.

    There's certainly scope to bring the pbs down fairly comfortably over the next 6months, even with this limiting approach.

    The idea, was to lay down a base after the 10mile race, putting in a solid 2months or so of higher mileage, regular 40+, with reduced intensity over the winter when races are less frequent and weather is dodgier. You would get used to the higher mileage, without the intensity to injure you...key rule is never increase intensity and mileage together.

    The intensity would then steadily build up, with the mileage dropping a bit, and as the sessions get harder, you get fitter, and then hey presto by race day you peak!

     

  • ps as for injuries....you generally have 2 options in running, stay at the same level comfortably, or try and reach the next level which means work harder, and thus more hance of injury I'm afraid image

  • Coach - thanks - as you know this is both the hardest and most sensible training I have ever done which says something in itself and is down to your help.

    The time I did yesterday was a time I thought I would never do but would always wonder how other people did - now I've done it on 6 months of my haphazard training and just over 3 months of your sensible and focussed training. I'm hungry for more success and to see how fast I can go without sacrificing everything - at end of the day my chances for Rio 2016 are slimimageimage! I presume an easy 40 per week could be made up of a 7,7,10 and 16?

    So you can have a break from me now - I'm off for my super slow 3 and I'll see what I can squeeze in to Saudi and be back in touch in a week and a half or so. Although I'll probably send you a physio report on Friday.

    Thanks again,

    Cheers, Skinny

    PS RW Race Calculator translates a 1:29.08 to a 40:26 10k so based on your Mcmillan comments may be a more accurate race pace translator?

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