Overdone it?

Skinny Fetish Fan

Someone else had caught me anyhow and we flew down the steep hill together. I realised we were closing the gap on Mr PSNF although he still had 20 secs at that stage and then when we got to a rise in the ground he would increase this only for us to get closer again on the downhills.

At 11 miles it was down to 9 seconds despite the two of us behind virtually plodding up a steep mother just after 10 miles and we then launched into a steep down hill. At the bottom it was down to 3 to 4 seconds but my legs just wouldn't do the last rise and in the end he beat me by 15 seconds with the other guy who had been running with me sprinting ahead at the end too.

Still 1:23:34 on that course was good. I hit my target time and the course was harder than I expected. Talking to someone after the race and he said when he was at his peak he ran a 68 min PB for a HM and round about that time he ran 72:30 for this race. I'm not saying I am in 79 minute shape but I do feel this was my PB performance for a HM if not my PB time.

Most importantly the flapjack was delicious.

Splits: 6:20,6:39,6:49,6:12,6:19,6:46,6:23,6:57,6:17,6:10,6:17,6:05,6:00, 0:20 (it measured 13.06 on my garmin).

Footnote: The course destroyed SM who finished in 1:39. Whilst the uphill and downhill make you slower they also make the distance longer and he just blew up at 11 miles.

Skinny Fetish Fan

I never really concluded on what this race told me.

'This race 7 weeks out gave me the opportunity to discover if training was going okay or alternatively enough time to switch to something more interval based for last 4 or 5 weeks prior to taper.'

Training is going okay.
No need to do interval based stuff. I'll just keep plodding out long runs at easy pace and try 18 with 14 at MP in 3 or 4 weeks as my final Marathon Quality session.

7 weeks to go.

muddyfunster

Most definitely pb shape Skinny. I knew there'd be a rival or two involved.

Lit, look away now:

With 1000ft of elevation gain you're looking at a performance penalty of around 13-14 secs per mile, which I think puts you around low to mid 80s on a reasonable course.

literatin

I hope no-one is expecting a race report from me. DT, my opinion re thigh-chafing is that it's the inseam of the shorts you have to watch out for rather than the length, as if there is a seam on the inner thigh and the fabric is wet, that's what will rub against your legs.

Skinny Fetish Fan

It would be nice to briefly read what Paris Marathon is like from someone who knows Paris so well. Particularly as you were running at a speed where you were probably able to take a lot in.

DT19

Yes I am, Lit. As you run at or around MP your recollection of things should be that much sharper than if you ran at full beans.

Yes, the chaffing appears to be right under my crotch where the shorts lay. Perhaps I simply didn't apply enough cream to the higher sections of my legs.

Skinny, that sounds like a good positive race and outcome and must leave you at least in the same shape you were in when you ran 1.21.

So based on Muddys calculations above, taking that any course is likely to have roughly 250 foot of elevation gain, if I drop 500 feet of it, that is about 65 seconds, then perhaps knock off a bit of time for a lighter breeze, leaves me right where I hoped I'd still be at low 85s.

I think I have to consider that my target for London is more likely to be sub 3.05 as opposed sub 3.

Skinny Fetish Fan

Do you think the general anaesthetic may still be affecting you DT? I can't remember the length of time the consultant said to you but can remember thinking it was quite a long time.

muddyfunster

1.74 s dropped for every 10ft of elevation gain DT. So at least a minute and a half penalty for 500 ft with wind. Of course the ideal course and conditions come about rarely and not always when you're at your best so whether that could ever be realised is moot.

DT19

he told me it can affect my fitness for up to 6 weeks. My op was 6 weeks ago last Friday. I had my post op appointment Friday and the consultant said that there was still scabbing over in my nose. He also said that beyond the GA what might be affecting me is the fact that as minor an op as it was, it is still a trauma for the body, and also I pretty much had 2 weeks off training.

The most optimistic part of me sort of hopes that I am still suffering a slight backlash due to a variety of those points and I suddenly wake up one day in the next week or two and I have made this mini leap.

literatin

If I ran low 85s I would still plan to run sub 3 but I would have done more miles in training.

DT19

My average mileage this time around will be some 6-8 miles a week more than last year, which doesn't sound very much at all but as a proportion of my previous mileage represents around 20-25% increase. I hope that might help. Even then though i'm still only going to average circa 35 miles a week.

Skinny Fetish Fan

Plus a lot of cross training though DT? I think a lot of cross training is part of those FIRST plans?

Mr PSNF is a triathlete and has run sub 3 in both his marathons 2:59:xx both times.

His mileage this time at 40/week is higher than both his previous attempts but he does loads of cycling and swimming too.

DT19

yes, but I also did the same x training last time around so that isn't an extra to what happened last year. I stick to two spin classes a week and have done pretty religiously for 2 years now.

I have quite a lot of friends who are good runners but don't run that much more than 30 miles a week but do a lot of cycling and swimming.

literatin

I think it's the longer races where the 'good runners who don't run that much' tend to be a bit less successful though - I've been cross-training as much as possible from the moment I stopped running and although I feel aerobically more or less as fit as ever (apart from filthy cold) I could definitely feel that my legs were not used to the running impact any more and were finding it a lot harder.

literatin

Fitbit Semi-marathon de Paris

I originally entered this race as part of my planned London build-up, having first checked with my coach that it would not be stupid to do two half-marathons two weeks apart. I picked it because a more flexible work schedule this year than usual meant I would be able to do a race in France on a Sunday and not have to be at work at 9am on Monday morning. However, after months of stiff achilles and not really running that well, I was finally *encouraged* to get treatment and had taken two weeks off plus another week of only short runs. My physio said as I was improving it would be okay to run the half at marathon pace (having suspiciously quizzed me first on how much slower my proposed 'marathon pace' was likely to be than actually racing) so I thought I might as well aim for sub-3 pace just to make sure I could still do it. I was feeling encouraged by the fact that, despite having had a disgusting cold all week, I wasn't feeling wiped out by it the way I did last year when my iron was too low. I was still coughing up yellow gunk though.

You have to pick up your number at the expo on Friday or Saturday, having first presented them with various documents including your medical certificate. In a fit of paranoia, I had encouraged my doctor to sign and stamp this in both English (so he could understand it) and French. You also got your t-shirt and a free pair of shoelaces in advance. The day of the race was forecast to be quite rainy though it was not raining when I arrived. The baggage tent was quite efficient so I ditched all my spare clothes although it was a bit chilly. There was quite a big queue for the toilets, of which there did not seem to be as many as you'd want for a race this size. But luckily I had had two poos before leaving my hotel so I didn't need another one, and this is France, the world capital of semi-acceptable alfresco pissing. So I crouched indiscreetly next to a large tree for my first pre-race wee. I then jogged a mile around paths in the Bois de Vincennes to warm up. Despite wearing my 2nd most stylish pair of compression socks I was feeling the achilles stiffness a little bit during the warm-up, probably because jogging slowly on dirt paths. However, this wore off immediately when I started running at marathon pace.

I got into the 'preferentiel' pen about 10 minutes before the start of the race and got to observe the ridiculous things people wear for races in France. LOADS of twatty compression socks like mine, but also jackets, hats etc quite near the front, even though it was not THAT cold. Even though the qualifying time for this first non-elite pen was very easy for women (sub 1:35) there were not that many of us in the pen and I stayed towards the back of it as I knew I would not be running that fast. The start was not that congested so I was able to settle into my pace fairly quickly, though I did range from 6:35ish to 6:55ish on my watch throughout (and some bits over 7 on some of the inclines). I'm not that convinced by GPS in cities so was only keeping an eye on it from time to time to make sure i wasn't speeding up too much, and I'd changed my autolap to kms with a goal of around 4:10-4:15. Support was a bit thin near the start at 9am on the outskirts of the city, but there were loads of quite good wind & brass bands and choirs providing enthusiastic support. At 5k it started absolutely fucking pissing down with rain, and continued to do so for basically the rest of the day (until mid-afternoon, which was very pleasant). The route heads up some of the boulevards, and is not particularly hilly but there are lots of gradual undulations so it's rarely completely flat. It also goes along some of the quais and in a couple of tunnels, looping past the Place de la Bastille a couple of times, where there's lots of support. If you are a woman near the front of a race with not many fast women, you also get enthusiastic support from female spectators, who are pleased to see you. And I was delighted at Chatelet to hear someone should 'go on Fife, go on Scotland!'. At aid stations they provide water (normal), bananas (yuck) and sugar cubes (weird). It was quite windy on the quais, but luckily I did not care as I was not trying to run fast. I did find on some of the uphill windy bits (perhaps near Charenton) I felt I was working a little harder than I'd have liked to be, and my legs were getting a bit tired due to the lack of training. I'd also not studied the route properly so was surprised that we were heading back to the park a bit earlier than I'd expected, but in fact the last few miles are all through the Bois de Vincennes and I was slowing a little bit because there was an almost imperceptible but lengthy slight uphill drag, it was windy, and I was comfortably going to hit my goal anyway. However, there was a beautiful slight downhill finish for the last mile or so, so I was feeling quite perky at that point and could tell I had not particularly pushed myself. As soon as I crossed the line I felt fine and didn't even need a drink of water, though I did eat the free apple I was given, carefully avoiding the bananas. I was able to get my bag back with no queues at all, but there was no changing tent or indeed shelter of any kind, so I just put some clothes on over my wet shorts, donned the fashionable rain poncho I'd received at the end, and went back to my hotel. Apart from the lack of shelter, the whole thing seemed very well-organised and I'd probably recommend it. In the afternoon I remembered that lots of museums are free on the first Sunday of the month, so I went off sightseeing in some slightly-too-late lovely spring sunshine.

literatin

Oh! I forgot to add that I had my second, and final, pre-race wee behind a tree right near the starting pen, because that is how little the French care about public urination. So I was not going to go and find a discreet clump of bushes miles away if no-one else was bothering.

muddyfunster

Nice pipi sauvage'ing Lit although there _is_ a 35 euro penalty for that in Paris. I hope your race number was obscured.

TheDan

blimey, this place has had a bit of a botched facelift since I last turned up, apparently I've been promoted to level 3 or something? Madness.....

Lit, they do the sugar cubes thing in the marathon too, I ended up shoving a couple in the water they provide, seemed like a good idea at the time.

how's everyone's training coming along?

PeteHew

TheDan!  Where have you been?  Done any running?

TheDan

I have, I managed to get into the ballot for London this year, trainings gone well barring the occasional cold obtained from minithedan, I have my first 10k that I'm actually in shape for in about 18 months in a few weeks too, so hopefully I'm back on track after an injury strewn 2016

I see you're on a decent run too pete, nice 10k time!

PeteHew

Thanks, TheDan.  Glad to hear things are going well.  Keep us posted!

literatin

Do you know that from experience Muddy? Hi TheDan!

Skinny Fetish Fan

I know from experience it's a higher penalty in Carlisle (although it was a long time ago).

Hi T'Dan. Are you back for good or just visiting?

PeteHew

Some advice, please.  Just supposing I wanted to run a half marathon 5 weeks from now, what should be my training priorities?  I usually do about 65/75 km per week with a long run of 18 or 19 and 1 or 2 faster-paced sessions.  I'm currently in good shape for racing 10k but have never raced a longer distance.  Can I trust McMillan to set my target pace?

literatin

Extend the long (and medium?) runs a bit over the next 3-4 weeks? Your mileage (kilométrage) seems fine and I think your sessions tend to be more based on longer reps than speedy stuff anyway, so you should be reasonably well prepared for the half already.

Skinny Fetish Fan

Agree with Lit - I would also drop the second faster session (in fact I would drop both but my training is now non standard).

What time would you be happy with? As it's your first you may want to keep a bit in hand for miles 10 to 13 so go a bit slower than McMillan but 65 to 75km a week should be plenty to see out a Half.

PeteHew

Thanks.  I'd be happy with sub 1hour 40 mins. 99:xx would be fine but I think that's on the limit of what I can achieve.  Perhaps need to accept that I won't get there first time and just enjoy it!

DT19

Good shout, Pete. This is how people end up running marathons in time!!

Skinny Fetish Fan

Have we lost the Calculators section of the website in the upgrade?

I used to use it for converting race times to different distances.

DT19

I only ever used McMillan for that so hadn't noticed. Did you make a decision on the TTT?