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21 miles for me today in a chunky Wilmslow half marathon sandwich. 1.17.17 on my watch for the half - short of my best time but the conditions wouldn't allow for much more. I think I'll write a report on this one ...
my plan has my last 20 miler for next week, which is 4 weeks out from London, do people think this to too late to be doing that or should I carry on as advised
Not the confidence boosting performance I was looking for, but that the way it goes sometimes.
thedan - uphill for the first ten surely means downhill on the way home.
Lit, how could you forget it. Everyone I spoke to pre race warned me about it.
Clearly not a great day for all out racing.
Though Muddy managed to trot out a reasonable time in a long run sandwich!!
The Dan, my last long run will be a week Tuesday. There was a bloke today in toilet queue doing Manchester. He was imparting his wisdom upon us as to his 20 miles is dangerously short as a long run 2 weeks out and he was going to make it 24 and how his worst marathons have come when he had only run 23 the fortnight before.
20 miles is very different for different people. Lit, for example, can happily bounce them out, whilst for others it takes all morning with the afternoon taken up with ice baths and reclining on the sofa.
20 at four weeks out shouldn't be a problem, but for comparison purposes I think it's more useful think in terms of time. So, for example, my plan, in minutes, will be approximately 150, 150, 135, 105 (179)
I'll have to reinstate you in the TTT when I get round to updating.
Sounds like everyone else had inconclusive experiences but Muddy's effort sounds excellent and DT's sounds promising dependent on how he felt and how he ran it.
Lou - how is McF? Or alternatively, McF how are you?
I've had a brilliant weekend apart from one small issue. Lou the plan was to drive 850 miles not 1350 but I finished up driving 1100 in total as we squeezed in another couple of sightseeing opportunities.
I got up early this morning to do my 22 and went up to Scott's Bluff Memorial Park and got there before the road to the top of the bluff was open so the lady very kindly let me run up even though she knew I wouldn't be down before the road would be open. The views were incredible, at least 25 miles each way and to be up there in solitude was a real bonus - every week should have half an hour like that!
From the top I could see another rock way in the distance called Chimney Rock so after I drove the 25 miles there and in the visitor centre discovered that the Native Indians used to call it Elk Penis Rock (which is the sole reason for adding this paragraph).
Unfortunately whilst I was jogging around up at the top of the bluff (I only ran 3 miles in total before someone says running 22 was stupid) my foot started hurting again so I wandered down and 9 hours later it's still hurting. Whilst I've survived this already once in this marathon campaign I have to wonder if this is it for this time (which might mean forever) - see how I feel once I land in UK.
As for my run, my legs feel good now but I'll know better in the morning. My split was the second 10 miles were 15 seconds slower than the first, despite the horrible 1.5 mile climb from 18.25 miles. Suggests I was in a steady and controlled state. Plenty were pulling up around me from about mile 15.
I'd heard this was a good course and field for a fast time and wanted to wring a decent half out of marathon training, rather than put all my eggs in the London basket. So Wilmslow went into the calendar, competing with Coventry and Reading and Wilmslow won out.
The trip up to Wilmslow takes place in the darkness, with the daylight hours having been dedicated to parkrun marshalling and a load of work around the house, and I pitch up at my digs feeling quite tired. Somewhat stubbornly I nip to the pub for a pint, as I realise a pint after the race won't be possible due to the drive back. Great minds think alike - the pub is heaving with elite Kenyans, all quietly supping their Guinness too. So with my post-race pint acting as a pre-race palliative, I sleep like a baby, if there is such a thing as a baby that has to go to the loo a couple of times in the night due to over zealous hydration. I wake to glorious birdsong - rural Wilmslow beats my inner city slum hands down - and the howl of the wind. Oh dear. It's been forecast all week so I shouldn't be surprised - que sera, sera.
I order a kids breakfast - want to take a light brekkie and save money on the adult version. I am conspicuously without kid and sheepishly have a small bowl of porridge and a couple of crumpets for a fiver. It seems everything costs a fiver. People are queuing up to get into the car park. Fiver, buddy. Post race drink and barm. Fiver, pal. But wait, I'm getting ahead of myself.
Breakfast downed, I waste an hour or so slipping into something conducive to racing, before I head out for my warm up near the start. Everyone is starting to mass already. It's a very keen bunch - there's nearly 45 minutes until race start ! The route near the start is decorated by bunches of balloons tied to lampposts and curiosity gets the better of me and I wonder if this is just for the first or last mile, so I follow the balloons on my warm up and find they lead to the finishing arch. There are also balloons leading away from the finish so I keep following the trail out into the countryside.
About a mile and a half into the warm up I feel a bad pain in my right hip and have to stop. Crikey. I've not ever had to bale out on a race but this feels like it could be a showstopper. I make a few stretches against a lamppost and give myself a bit of a massage (after checking no one is watching) and then jog on feeling extremely sore round the hip.
After a couple of further stops I get back into civilisation and make it to the start. I try some strides as one final test of the hip and the pain just disappears in an instant. Odd. 3 miles of warmup done and 5 minutes before race start. Lining up in the pens, on a fairly normal suburban avenue, I am aware of the strength of the field as there is a pretty big crowd filling back from the start line to a sign for sub 1.10. I have no idea where to position myself until I see a couple of chaps wearing 1.15 t-shirts, so settle in behind them, without any intention of following them whatsoever. I am most definitely not in that sort of shape. Heart rate will govern my pace.
As ever it gets very crowded around me at the start. I can't particularly make out the race announcements other than something about someone running backwards for a world record. As I am earwigging a conversation to my left about so-and-so meeting so-and-so's wife BANG! the start gun goes and we are off. Mayhem. It's suddenly quite a narrow street and people are really charging through. As we leave the street I get out of trouble and stay wide of the crowd but immediately encounter the wind. I glance at my watch after one mile. 5.35. And the 1.15 pacer guys are moving away from me fast. Crazy.
I let my heart rate settle down a bit after the adrenaline fuelled start. It's tough work going into the wind though. I find myself in a bunch of around 6 as we hit the country lanes. One chap's feet really slap the ground. Check whether this is a wearing flip flops half marathon world record attempt. Nope. Every "slap, slap" makes me wince. We hit a few dips and climbs and the wind is unrelenting. Mile 4, I get a bloody stitch. Opposite hand up in the air. Hang on, do you do it on the side with the stitch ? Try both hands up in the air and realise this looks a bit silly and there is a 747 passing overhead as it heads into land at Manchester Airport, so it looks like I am hailing the mighty metallic object in the sky.
So the first 5 miles are quite unpleasant and I consider dialling down to marathon pace, but at mile 6 our bunch turns a corner and it's downhill and out of the wind, though not out of reach of the rain. My stitch has gone and I stretch my legs out instead of my arms and leave the group behind me. Up ahead I can see a lady and make up the ground to her - marshals are calling out that she's first lady. Mile 8 arrives and we turn back into the wind and the lady tucks in behind me. It's a nice little bit of scenery as we pass through a couple of villages (high five a big row of kids) covering leafy bends and climbs to reach the 10 mile marker. The lady has dropped back now, and the mile marker signals our loop around a lovely bit of Cheshire is complete. The return to Wilmslow (no less lovely) is on. With the wind behind me now, I feel quite strong and think I can put in a good shift over the next 3 miles. It helps that there are several going backwards to pick my way through and I later see that much of this section was on a gradual climb (from 6 miles in fact) so while the effort kept coming, pace dipped slightly.
Finally there is a big old dip and then a very steep climb section and the balloons are in sight for the finishing mile or so. It's pretty straightforward and I am spared the usual agonies, even managing a 5.40-ish pace last quarter of a mile to reach the finish arch in 1.17.14 on chip (43rd, and 4th v45). The leading lady comes in about a minute later and a chat in the long funnel of everlasting goodies (water, flapjack, t-shirt, powerade, medal ..err.. flyers) reveals she picked up £1250 quid prize money. Holy moly. She's travelled down from Scotland too, and I think to myself that Lit would've been proud of such pot hunting. We also discuss London training and she is looking to run 2.40 there !
Having dispensed with my flapjack, it's off on a cooldown run for a further (soaking) 5 miles, to get my marathon mileage in and complete a cutback 51 mile week with 9 miles of elliptical. I was very pleased with the outcome - I felt I had the reserves to deal with a fair amount of undulations and a strong wind. I think that was my best half marathon after the difficult initial few miles. Although not the fastest, it was incomparable to finishing the Brass Monkey earlier in the year in tatters. The race itself is well worth a go, well marshalled, supportive atmosphere, not too big that logistics become an issue, and it serves up a decent slice of the Cheshire countryside. I really enjoyed it.
Lou - Hard luck on Coventry - when I did it a couple of years back it was also windy and I was about a minute off my best at the time despite being in better shape. Hopefully everything will align come London.
Lit - Get yourself down to Wilmslow next year, enormous prize money well within your reach I think. More than enough for ice cream and shopping !
Sorry to hear about the foot Skinny. I'd be going to the physio too - I still feel like a bit of an idiot for not getting my achilles issues sorted out much earlier.
ASHBY 20
So essentially this is a glorified training run. This time last year I ran the Gloucester 20 in 2.22.44 (ave pace of 7.06 and hr 164- average hr at London was 173).
I wasn’t sure I’d be capable of the same time v stats this year as in my head it’s all going wrong.
I was pleasantly surprised to find that Ashby was only a 50 minute drive away (not a great deal further than Gloucs). I arrived at the race HQ in good time, bursting for a pee. The toilet queue was silly. One thing I have learnt is that when races start in schools or leisure centres, there are always secret toilets. A very quick bit of dd and I was directed to a toilet on the second floor. Straight in and sorted.
I then made my way to the changing rooms for some lengthy preparations. During this time I listened to a runner telling those around him that he was doing Manchester and that 20 miles is simply not enough two weeks out and that he was going to make it up to 24. He gave various other examples of ludicrous pre marathon training sessions which were entertaining. By the time I had applied various creams and got dressed, the toilet queue was gone so I hopped in for a final burst then made my way to the start, suitably attired in my usual classic Next knitwear, with the collars of a black shirt sewn in to give the appearance that I was also wearing one.
As I crossed over some park area where the race would finish, the wind became apparent. Another wee (just to be sure) and I made my way to the start. Promptly at 10am we were off.
I was hoping that the pace would be a complete breeze to start with, however it felt a little laboured and my legs felt heavy. I began to picture how it would feel in 15 miles time and it wasn’t a positive image. I considered whether it was the complete lack of warn up so decided to persevere. Sure enough within a mile or so things settled down and I felt quite comfortable.
Once out of Ashby there is a mainly countryside double loop to contend with. Therefore we pretty quickly saw a sign for 10 miles and we all had a joke along the lines of ‘I wish’. The first few miles were largely uphill and straight into the wind (7.00, 7.05, 7.15). At around mile 4 we started looping away from the headwind and things became a bit easier. From about this point I found myself annoyingly between groups.
Nothing of significance really happened, the miles just continued to turn over. Nobody overtook me and I didn’t overtake anybody else. There just appeared to be climb after climb, which is very frustrating when you are trying to hold a fine balance between hr and pace. The next miles came in at 6.55, 708, 7.10, 7.06, 7.04 and 6.54. A steady pace was very difficult due to the undulations and wind.
I was regretting my decision not to run Gloucester which whilst undulating was much easier than this.
Before I knew it I was passing back through Ashby. Everybody had told me that the climb back up into Ashby at the end is a killer. I tried to have a glance and from what I could see it looked OK.
Off I went into the second loop. As in the first loop, the first few miles were climbing and into a headwind. As we passed the 10 mile marker it was like someone had rung a final lap bell and there was a surge of 4 or 5 runners that had clearly just hit a different pace that came passed me.
After that very few people did so, however I noticed that despite retaining an even effort and pace groups were fragmenting and runners were coming back to me. I suddenly started feeling strong as I was picking small groups off. The next few miles ticked by in 7.07, 7.18, 6.53 and 7.03.
At about 14 miles I could see just ahead of me the chap from the toilets. As I caught him he said he’d been listening to my cadence and it was where he wanted to be. I suggested he tag on and come with me but he said it was too early for him to push.
At about mile 16 we turned back into the wind and faced an incline. I had a bit of a wobble at this point and decided this was all too much effort for slower than MP. At this point my average pace was 7.04 and hr was 163, so despite the hills and the wind and my head, I was in a good place statistically. It was also about this point that a female from Lou’s club came surging through. She was closely pursued by another and I guessed there was some personal race going on between them.
Anyway, I took a jelly baby and this gave me a lift and on I went. The miles started ticking by nicely again(7.11, 6.58, 7.09, 7.00). My average pace was holding steady at 7.04. It was at around 16 miles I began to feel my feet beginning to hurt. There was that burning sensation on the balls of the toes, but also the lack of support of lightweight shoes was present. Fortunately this didn’t develop into anything more than background discomfort.
I was conscious that we would soon be turning into Ashby and I would have a climb to contend with. My HR average had just clicked over to 164, which was where it ended up in Gloucester. Mile 18 came in at 7.04 so bang on average. It was at about 18.25 miles we were directed off the loop towards the finish. As I encountered the hill, I could see the problem. It just went on and on, however I seemed to be holding a reasonable pace and still passing people. Mile 19 came in at 7.15 and average pace dropped to 7.05. I thought that might have been it, but it kept going, finally ending at around 19.6 miles with a left turn downhill towards finish area. This would have been nice, however it was over a stoney trail which did my sore feet no favours. As I entered the park there was a signthat said 400m to go. It was one of those frustrating loops of a park where the finish area is in sight at all times but doesn’t appear to get closer. I go through 20 miles (7.08) but there is still a good 100m to go. I decide I want to go sub 2.22 (I don’t know why) so I open up my stride, which I was pleased to be able to do with the final 0.06 coming in at 5.40 pace. I could see the clock was on 2.22.04 as I approached but knew I was a few seconds crossing the line so kept going. Stopped my watch on 2.21.59. Unfortunately the sprint finish nudged my average hr to 165.
I collected my goody bag with my new red hoody that looks a lot like my old red hoody, had a sit down then grabbed my bag to check my text confirmation of my time of 2.21.59. I then spotted a selection of recovered tops and was pleased to spot mine, which I gathered up for another day.
I was surprised, compared to all my other 20s this year, how quickly I felt recovered and good my legs felt, despite wearing the lightweight racers. I had been expecting a degree of pain in various places.
I ate my cheese and tomato cob that was in my goody bag and then decided to get out of there before the mass finishers. I had a quick stroll around Ashby, which looked a quite pleasant town and then spotted a greggs so purchased all sorts of crap for the journey home.
All in all I am reasonably pleased with the run. It was unquestionably a harder course than Gloucester, not to mention the conditions. There was no identifiable drop off in my pace, despite the last two miles of climbing and my pace v hr stats were equal, albeit I finished 45 seconds faster than Gloucester.
The other pleasing thing was that when I checked last night, the vo2 max on my garmin had moved from 59 to 60 which is the joint highest it has ever been. Normally difficult conditions and courses have the opposite effect as it predominantly calculates it on pace v hr v distance and takes no account of these other factors.
I am debating now what to do this week. I have half day booked on Thursday and next Tuesday to run my final long runs. I am uncertain whether I just have a complete easy week this week but sacrifice the opportunity to bank an extra 20.
Muddy, nice report and effort. I don't know how you can bring yourself to run the extra at the end like that.
Lit, perhaps you are about to be unwell? It seems odd that you were slower than Paris and it felt harder, unless you went off at 6.20 pace and crashed later on?
cheers all, i'll keep with the proscribed plan then (though i wish my 20 milers only took 2:30!)
The only bad thing about a pb that big is that all my other times appear very soft by comparison, looks like i'll have to do a race or two after london is out of the way!
Afternoon all. Just caught up.
Skinny - sounds like a great trip / run. Sorry to hear about the reoccurrence of the foot issue. As others have said, get to a physio, see what they say and make a decision from there.
Lit/Lou - Sounds tough going for both of you. Race day is still someway off so still time to bank some decent training.
Muddy - great report and cracking time! As DT say's, not sure I could muster so many additional miles after a hard ran HM.
DT - looks good to me. I know a few people who wobbled a bit at 16 at Ashby. I recall having to dig in a bit at that point last year before getting to 18 and managing a strong finish. I've heard the wind was particularly irritating this year.
Meanwhile, whilst visiting my friend, we made a late call to run a trail race. There was a short (6 miles) or long (13 miles) option, we went for the short.
The race started at the top of a massive hill, the hooter goes and nobody moves away that quickly apart from one lady...and I wonder what's going on. Up a small hill and I'm leading the race - errrr. Sharp turn to the right down a sharp track and 2 blokes and the lady come past me - phew. Traverse the hill along a gnarly rocky path for a mile or so, lady is away and out of sight, 2 blokes are approximately 50m ahead of me and another fella. Down another hill and I'm gaining on the two blokes ahead, fella behind me has dropped off.
Cross a bridge, climb over a stone style and onto a sometimes rocky sometimes muddy path alongside a river . The two front me have split and I quickly catch and pass the guy in second. What is going on I wonder. Plenty of ups and downs before crossing another bridge and heading back along the river on the other side. Can't see he guy in front at this point but feel like the guy behind can't be far away. Up some near vertical rock steps and I have to walk the last couple of steps so take a glance over my shoulder, nobody...apart from some confused looking dog walkers.
Back to the bottom of the hill, legs feel like jelly, can't see the fella in front but still convinced the guy behind must be closing me down. Up the hill as fast as I can, traverse the hill, and I can see the guy ahead but the finish isn't far away and I know I can't catch him. Get to the final climb to the finish and I know I won't be caught but the finish is up a pig of a grassy slope so one last effort required. Finish the ~10k in 46 minutes, about 90 seconds behind the first man and 3 minutes behind first lady. Guy in third finishes about 90 seconds behind me.
Bit of chat at the finish and then much to my surprise, awarded a 'trophy' for second male. A colourful plastic paperweight type thing. My first running prize. Lovely.
On your dilemma, for me the Thurs/Tues interval is too short between long runs. I would choose one or the other and replace the other with a medium long, and think carefully about what runs go in between. I like a rest day after my long runs, followed by a faster paced session.
Afternoon all. Back from the honeymoon and up to date on here now.
Too many ups and downs to comment on individually. But well done those who have raced well, and those who have ground out tough sessions/races/mileage. Speedy recovery to those with injury/niggles. I hope you make your respective start lines.
I've now had 5 full weeks off and I'd love to say I'm raring to go, but that would be a lie. I'll try to get out for a couple of short runs this week to see if I can jump start my running mojo.
Tommy, great effort and well done on your prize. The biggest surprise to me was your choice of distance.
Muddy, I did briefly consider yesterday whether I should try and trot out another 2 miles to tick the 22 mile box. I then decided I wouldn't. I suppose if I am going to drop one of them it would be this Thursday, having run a faster 20 yesterday. I am trying to work doing both but with work commitments I can't take Wednesday or Thursday afternoon off and Friday is too late to recover for the sunday 5 mile race I am planning.
I suppose mile 16 of a 20 is the same territory as miles 20-22 of a marathon. You've run a long way but there's still a fair bit to go. I get it even when out on a very easy 20.
Welcome back, Rich. Hope you had a good time.
Welcome back Rich. Any targets ?
Tommy - a prize - woohoo! I guess if you run 2 races every week you must eventually discover yourself in a race where you are one of the best runners there - good stuff.
Welcome back Rich - you're probably more exhausted than the rest of us marathoners
I'm home and my foot is still uncomfortable - I will go to physio but I'm pretty confident this will be inconclusive based on previous visits with sore feet - it might be a stress fracture, it might just be soft tissue, rest and see if it gets better and if it does give it another day and try doing a little run etc.
Obviously if it is a stress fracture then it's game over so no point worrying about that. So I need to think about the 5 weeks I have left and the best way to get the most out of them on the assumption it's soft tissue injury.
I only managed 23 miles last week but I'm thinking a full week off this week, then try and build the next week up gradually and do my 18 with 14 MP at end of week and one more 20 miler in the next weekend and then just a 2 week taper.
Not the original plan but probably a best case scenario from here. I can't really agree with DT that I can just coast in (not really sure exactly what that means) but I can agree that I don't need much.
Good time had and yes, a little tired, read into that what you will(!)
No real targets. Hoping to build mileage back up and target some parkrun improvement and then focus on some summer 10k action.
> Fitbit Semi-marathon de Paris
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> I originally entered this race as part of my planned London build-up, having first checked with my coach that it would not be stupid to do two half-marathons two weeks apart. I picked it because a more flexible work schedule this year than usual meant I would be able to do a race in France on a Sunday and not have to be at work at 9am on Monday morning. However, after months of stiff achilles and not really running that well, I was finally *encouraged* to get treatment and had taken two weeks off plus another week of only short runs. My physio said as I was improving it would be okay to run the half at marathon pace (having suspiciously quizzed me first on how much slower my proposed 'marathon pace' was likely to be than actually racing) so I thought I might as well aim for sub-3 pace just to make sure I could still do it. I was feeling encouraged by the fact that, despite having had a disgusting cold all week, I wasn't feeling wiped out by it the way I did last year when my iron was too low. I was still coughing up yellow gunk though.
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> You have to pick up your number at the expo on Friday or Saturday, having first presented them with various documents including your medical certificate. In a fit of paranoia, I had encouraged my doctor to sign and stamp this in both English (so he could understand it) and French. You also got your t-shirt and a free pair of shoelaces in advance. The day of the race was forecast to be quite rainy though it was not raining when I arrived. The baggage tent was quite efficient so I ditched all my spare clothes although it was a bit chilly. There was quite a big queue for the toilets, of which there did not seem to be as many as you'd want for a race this size. But luckily I had had two poos before leaving my hotel so I didn't need another one, and this is France, the world capital of semi-acceptable alfresco pissing. So I crouched indiscreetly next to a large tree for my first pre-race wee. I then jogged a mile around paths in the Bois de Vincennes to warm up. Despite wearing my 2nd most stylish pair of compression socks I was feeling the achilles stiffness a little bit during the warm-up, probably because jogging slowly on dirt paths. However, this wore off immediately when I started running at marathon pace.
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> I got into the 'preferentiel' pen about 10 minutes before the start of the race and got to observe the ridiculous things people wear for races in France. LOADS of twatty compression socks like mine, but also jackets, hats etc quite near the front, even though it was not THAT cold. Even though the qualifying time for this first non-elite pen was very easy for women (sub 1:35) there were not that many of us in the pen and I stayed towards the back of it as I knew I would not be running that fast. The start was not that congested so I was able to settle into my pace fairly quickly, though I did range from 6:35ish to 6:55ish on my watch throughout (and some bits over 7 on some of the inclines). I'm not that convinced by GPS in cities so was only keeping an eye on it from time to time to make sure i wasn't speeding up too much, and I'd changed my autolap to kms with a goal of around 4:10-4:15. Support was a bit thin near the start at 9am on the outskirts of the city, but there were loads of quite good wind & brass bands and choirs providing enthusiastic support. At 5k it started absolutely fucking pissing down with rain, and continued to do so for basically the rest of the day (until mid-afternoon, which was very pleasant). The route heads up some of the boulevards, and is not particularly hilly but there are lots of gradual undulations so it's rarely completely flat. It also goes along some of the quais and in a couple of tunnels, looping past the Place de la Bastille a couple of times, where there's lots of support. If you are a woman near the front of a race with not many fast women, you also get enthusiastic support from female spectators, who are pleased to see you. And I was delighted at Chatelet to hear someone should 'go on Fife, go on Scotland!'. At aid stations they provide water (normal), bananas (yuck) and sugar cubes (weird). It was quite windy on the quais, but luckily I did not care as I was not trying to run fast. I did find on some of the uphill windy bits (perhaps near Charenton) I felt I was working a little harder than I'd have liked to be, and my legs were getting a bit tired due to the lack of training. I'd also not studied the route properly so was surprised that we were heading back to the park a bit earlier than I'd expected, but in fact the last few miles are all through the Bois de Vincennes and I was slowing a little bit because there was an almost imperceptible but lengthy slight uphill drag, it was windy, and I was comfortably going to hit my goal anyway. However, there was a beautiful slight downhill finish for the last mile or so, so I was feeling quite perky at that point and could tell I had not particularly pushed myself. As soon as I crossed the line I felt fine and didn't even need a drink of water, though I did eat the free apple I was given, carefully avoiding the bananas. I was able to get my bag back with no queues at all, but there was no changing tent or indeed shelter of any kind, so I just put some clothes on over my wet shorts, donned the fashionable rain poncho I'd received at the end, and went back to my hotel. Apart from the lack of shelter, the whole thing seemed very well-organised and I'd probably recommend it. In the afternoon I remembered that lots of museums are free on the first Sunday of the month, so I went off sightseeing in some slightly-too-late lovely spring sunshine.
What kind of treatment are you getting ? Is it working ?