yes, you're probably right. I survived some big runs in the zoom streaks mind, although Ashby 20 in them did leave me with metartalsalgia which still keeps popping up.
They're not very lightweight though and the review describes them as highly cushioned. Sounds like they're intended as a marathon racer, but probably won't last very long if you use them for daily mileage.
The Zoom Vaporfly Elite weigh about an ounce less than the most recent Kinvara's Lou, so pretty lightweight. I agree they have an impressive amount of cushioning so I wouldn't call them a racing flat at all.
I raced Hull in my Kinvaras and felt every bit of the road in them beyond about 10k. For London I wore the Saucony Freedom ISO which were pretty comfy and weigh a couple of ounces more than the Vaporfly shoes. They significantly withstand wear and tear over the Kinvaras too.
I used to wear Kinvaras and I thought they were quite cushiony! I've also raced a marathon in the most ludicrous lightweight shoes imaginable, though, so am not a good example. These days because I've had some calf/achilles issues recently, I'm wearing NB Vazee Pace for longer stuff (raced Chester & ran London in them). Tbh if I'm well-trained I don't think it makes that much difference. I doubt I'd have been able to run Chester any faster if I'd been wearing the ridiculous Innov-8 road shoes I wore for London 2016.
this may sound like a stupid question but how much time do racing flats actually save you in comparison to your day to day running shoe? are they worth the investment?
4%....The only real comparison I have is the tempo runs I did on the same route over winter in as far as I could recall similar conditions. Wearing my zoom streaks, I was generally 5-7 seconds per mile faster (for same hr) over a 6 mile tempo compared to when wearing asics gt1000.
Taking it to the next level my nike lt3 trainers that I use for up to 10k are a bigger difference. It is like racing in plimsoles.
this may sound like a stupid question but how much time do racing flats actually save you in comparison to your day to day running shoe? are they worth the investment?
As always Runners Connect has some research based discussion on this:
Did 25 minutes of "jogging" today. Get me!!!! Feel a bit like this . Knee is a bit swollen but no worse than when I do absolutely any other activity. Back at the hospital in ten days so probably a good idea to challenge it a little bit so I can work out what I can do and what I can't.
I don't have any racing shoes, TheDan. Mind you i definitely notice the difference when it's XC or track and put my spikes on. They are super light.
The Dan, racing flats are generally pretty cheap. I think my lt3s were about £50 and the zoom streaks were £75 but recently bought a pair on line for £60. I think you can get reasonable flats for £40.
There is also the mental side of it. When they are kept just for racing and you know you are putting them on it just gives you that boost.
Well done, Mcf. Yes, worth having an idea of where the limit is so you can discuss properly with them.
I am debating a parkrun in the morning. It's something I want to do a bit more often over the next couple of months to try and harden myself up to the pain.
Hurrah! Great that you could get out for a run McF!
I agree that I'd want to be putting on my lightest, fastest shoes for a fast race, though I'm not convinced it makes that much of a difference to me, possibly because all my other shoes are not heavy anyway. I'd expect it to make more difference (to a runner like me) at faster paces, since there are other variables that become more important in a marathon such as how tired your legs are and whether you can be arsed or not.
In other news, I collected my new (to me) road bike from the shop today, where it has been getting a new stem for short people. It is very beautiful.
We are doing Leamington Parkrun in the morning in tribute to our club chair who suddenly died leading a session on Wednesday. He was a wonderful man, much loved by all and a great loss to the club and to the wider world. We shall be in club colours and have a pack of small children so I shall be run/walking it. He loved offroad and getting muddy so todays rain should make things just right.
I've tried Kinvaras on, but never run in them and thought they were quite well cushioned, just small heal/toe differential. My ds racers are 185g and I've never felt like a needed more cushioning in a race. They're intended as a long distance racer with significant heal cushioning and stability - asics piranha are quite a bit lighter. TheDan - they do make you feel like you can run faster, which is very important. Plus they become part of the raceday ritual - I couldn't possible perform at my best in normal trainers now. Lit - Nice bike. Seat's a bit low though.
Good news on the jog, McF. Sorry to hear about your chairman.
So, it turns out running 5000m on a track whilst full of cold is not that easy and a bit mentally tough going particularly when you get lapped by 15 minute merchants. Started ok but then fell off the back of the group I was in and it all fell apart slightly to finish in 19:09. So slower than recent parkrun attempts and probably about 40 seconds down on what I should be able to do. Although putting a positive spin on it, I guess technically I am the 5th fastest 5000m runner in Nottinghamshire and I think worthy of claiming a silver cell on the TTT track board.
Nice bike lit, though it'd go faster if you paint it red
oh god there's a track board too, I'll update the table over the next few days as my pc has recently died and I can't be arsed to do it on my iPad
oh, I also did the Leeds half marathon this morning, came out with a not too shabby 1:39:03, though I did get overtaken on the line by a vegan runner (I have an irrational hatred of that running club) which spoilt it slightly. Still a near 6 min pb and means I'm starting to get closer to clawing my way off the bottom of the bronze league
Nice bike, Lit. Isn't it generally accepted yellow is the colour of speed?
How did run go, Mcf?
Well done, Tommy, at least on the silver cell.
I didn't make parkrun, my daughter was up most of Friday night ill. Went out later and did a 7 mile progressive run. Then did bodypump today for first time in a good 2 years. Going to try and make it a weekly feature.
May do the midweek series race this week. It's also county multi terrain champs and I'm sure 6 score so dependent on who turns up I might get in our 6. Also I can finally collect half medal from March.
The Dan, basically if you don't have flats you are making life unduly difficult.
Comments
I wouldn't train in them beyond a half and a 20.
But who am i to say DT can't be a Machester United of the running world and buy the title
I raced Hull in my Kinvaras and felt every bit of the road in them beyond about 10k. For London I wore the Saucony Freedom ISO which were pretty comfy and weigh a couple of ounces more than the Vaporfly shoes. They significantly withstand wear and tear over the Kinvaras too.
Yes but they totally fuck my feet.
4%....The only real comparison I have is the tempo runs I did on the same route over winter in as far as I could recall similar conditions. Wearing my zoom streaks, I was generally 5-7 seconds per mile faster (for same hr) over a 6 mile tempo compared to when wearing asics gt1000.
Taking it to the next level my nike lt3 trainers that I use for up to 10k are a bigger difference. It is like racing in plimsoles.
https://runnersconnect.net/science-of-racing-flats/
I don't have any racing shoes, TheDan. Mind you i definitely notice the difference when it's XC or track and put my spikes on. They are super light.
The Dan, racing flats are generally pretty cheap. I think my lt3s were about £50 and the zoom streaks were £75 but recently bought a pair on line for £60. I think you can get reasonable flats for £40.
There is also the mental side of it. When they are kept just for racing and you know you are putting them on it just gives you that boost.
Well done, Mcf. Yes, worth having an idea of where the limit is so you can discuss properly with them.
I am debating a parkrun in the morning. It's something I want to do a bit more often over the next couple of months to try and harden myself up to the pain.
I agree that I'd want to be putting on my lightest, fastest shoes for a fast race, though I'm not convinced it makes that much of a difference to me, possibly because all my other shoes are not heavy anyway. I'd expect it to make more difference (to a runner like me) at faster paces, since there are other variables that become more important in a marathon such as how tired your legs are and whether you can be arsed or not.
In other news, I collected my new (to me) road bike from the shop today, where it has been getting a new stem for short people. It is very beautiful.
TheDan - they do make you feel like you can run faster, which is very important. Plus they become part of the raceday ritual - I couldn't possible perform at my best in normal trainers now.
Lit - Nice bike. Seat's a bit low though.
Good news on the jog, McF. Sorry to hear about your chairman.
So, it turns out running 5000m on a track whilst full of cold is not that easy and a bit mentally tough going particularly when you get lapped by 15 minute merchants. Started ok but then fell off the back of the group I was in and it all fell apart slightly to finish in 19:09. So slower than recent parkrun attempts and probably about 40 seconds down on what I should be able to do. Although putting a positive spin on it, I guess technically I am the 5th fastest 5000m runner in Nottinghamshire and I think worthy of claiming a silver cell on the TTT track board.
oh god there's a track board too, I'll update the table over the next few days as my pc has recently died and I can't be arsed to do it on my iPad
oh, I also did the Leeds half marathon this morning, came out with a not too shabby 1:39:03, though I did get overtaken on the line by a vegan runner (I have an irrational hatred of that running club) which spoilt it slightly. Still a near 6 min pb and means I'm starting to get closer to clawing my way off the bottom of the bronze league
How did run go, Mcf?
Well done, Tommy, at least on the silver cell.
I didn't make parkrun, my daughter was up most of Friday night ill. Went out later and did a 7 mile progressive run. Then did bodypump today for first time in a good 2 years. Going to try and make it a weekly feature.
May do the midweek series race this week. It's also county multi terrain champs and I'm sure 6 score so dependent on who turns up I might get in our 6. Also I can finally collect half medal from March.
The Dan, basically if you don't have flats you are making life unduly difficult.
Well done TheDan and Tommy! Still wondering what I was thinking entering a track 5k.
Lou, I'm quite short, though probably will move the seat up a tiny bit.