P + D training for VLM 2013



  • I'm a little late to the party but Congratulation AG! 

    Nice intervals from lots of people. Stutyr - yours are ridiculously consistent. Bravo.

    Looking good Chris!

    Menn - hope that rest sees you right 

    Can't say I feel like joining in with this talk of this week's VO2max feeling easy. Did my 5 x 1000m this morning and I actually felt like giving in around 200m into the second one. Legs still feeling really heavy since the half 10 days ago. I managed all 5 in the end but don't know how. Paces:

    5:54, 5:46, 5:57, 5:52, 6:03 

    So I'm pleased I got the session done but can't help feeling I'm on the brink of overtraining. Considering taking the next 2 days off as I really want to feel good for Sunday's 18 w 14MP. What to do: listen to my body or man up?


  • Al, I would still do the runs but maybe run them slower than normal.

    The 18 with [email protected] is going to be a tough session but if you can nail that whilst a bit fatigued you know that you're almost ready for the big day.

    It's normal to be tired this close to the race but you'll know your body better than anyone, if you feel like you might be risking an injury a rest might not be a bad idea.
  • I personally would do a bit of both Al. Maybe try the mid week MLR run (but at a slow pace if you are not up to it) and then maybe ditch the recovery runs if you are really feeling bad. The MP run is the big one.

  • AR I agree that these VO2 runs are not easy, so satisfying when you finish them. I found the first one the toughest, middle 3 seemed ok and then the last one tough again. Tough call on the dropping runs, but the 14 at MP is definitely the concentration for the rest of the week

    Good running Stutyr with yours, about 40 seconds faster miling than mine.

    15W love the hard man soft man approach with the dog.

    Men hope the ice sorts it.

    Lit, next time perhaps I'll go for the next level, perhaps when I retire and have enough time, respect to all of you getting those miles in, probably another 2+ hours running a week over the lower level

  • Thanks for your thoughts Mark, Chris, JF50. I've got a rest day tomorrow (55 schedule) so I'll see how I feel on Friday. The 18/14 session is a massive one for me as I need to get it done convincingly to give myself enough confidence to stick to the sub3 attempt. I've found all the MP stuff so far really tough and my heart rate has been beyond the limits, so I'm hoping I might see some improvement this time.

  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    My schedule is pretty mixed up this week.  I did 12m MLR today.  I actually overdressed for this one, because I didn't realise that it was relatively warm (compared to yesterday).  At least the buff was usefull to strap the unwanted gloves and cap to my arm image  Felt a bit tired and can feel it in my quads today, so I suppose that's the VO2max session catching up with me.  Rest day tomorrow.

    Al - I'm pretty convinced I'm not running my VO2max sessions fast enough and should have been feeling more like you!  I think the 18/14 MPR is the final really scary session, so I hope we both nail it this weekend.  I know what you mean about the MP runs feeling so tough.  However, I found the threshold pace runs up to 7m very tough - and yet still managed to hold a similar pace for the half-marathon, so I'm hoping for the same effect in the marathon!!!  I don't understand why the same pace in racing doesn't feel as hard as in training?? image

  • Hi, I hope someone can help me before I go out.  I have 1200m repeats x 5 and in the book it says run them at 5K race pace.  How do you accurately know your 5K race pace. My latest race was a half marathon and I finished in 1:20:39, what am I to put in my Garmin for the 1200m intervals, I don't want to get it wrong and train to slow or too fast, any help would be appreciated.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Hi Craig, I haven't raced a 5k either so I used www.mcmillanrunning.com, which gives me a pace of 6.09 and you 5.36. Your HM pace is my estimated 5k pace. image

  • I was looking at that, just on the training paces section it says Stamina Paces - Tempo Intervals 5:47 - 6:01, I think I will go with the 5:36 though, thanks Lit.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Yes, but they define that as intervals lasting 8-15 minutes, which isn't what we're being asked to do by P&D. If you look in the 'cruise intervals' tab, it gives a time that you should run 1200m in that is probably close to the 5k race pace P&D are asking for.

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    However, you are welcome to blame me if it turns out to be insanely difficult!


    literatin wrote (see)

    However, you are welcome to blame me if it turns out to be insanely difficult!

    From where I sit currently on tired legs from my 5 x 1000m at my estimated 5k pace of about 7 min miles image, 5.36 looks incredibly insane and love the way you'll just go with it Craig image

  • Craig, I think that should be around the right pace. I did the k reps at just under 5.30 pace, so would have thought you should be comfortable at 5.30 for the 1200s. You seem to be a faster than me so wouldn't be Suprised of you are closer to the 5.20 mark. All I would say is ease in on the first one and get used to the pace and duration then you will be confident of holding (and increasing) that pace for the rest of the reps. Enjoy!
  • I aimed for around 5:36 pace, but messed up on the Garmin and the 4th rep I only set at 800m, but the other 1200s were; 

    4:11, 4:12, 4:11, 2:44 (800m), 4:10 all with 3 minute recoveries, quite an undualting route, a few of the reps had some nice downhill bits, also some uphill so it all evened out.  Warm up and cool down either side.  

  • No PainNo Pain ✭✭✭
    AG thats great news congratulations.. And your life will change big time in 9 months timeimage

    To much to cover as I have been up to my eyes in running and life, still going ok and happy with the way my training is still going.

    HeOw hope the foot is ok the bike is ok and good for cross training but a slightly different muscle group used. 5:20 to 5:30 is what I do but mine are half mile intervals. So your well on track.
  • Nice work Craig. Great pace and a good one to be knocked off the list.
  • Good running today everyone.

    Just ran a 15 mile MLR I think this is the run I'm really starting to dislike, I feel like most runs have a purpose but this just feels like running long for the sake of it. I know it's building endurance but its boring!

    I was worrying about my Achilles/calf all the way round which didn't help either, it's still aching but nothing worse than yesterday I'm hoping lots of stretching will help.

    Still freezing cold and windy round here, I can't wait for it to warm up. I'd take 25 degrees at London now rather than this depressing weather.
  • Know how you feel about the 15 miler. Totally boring. Got to go out in an hour or so and get it done. Just downloading some new music to zone out to. I'll try and turn my brain off tonight and just go with the flow. Bet you are glad it's out the way mark.
  • TenjisoTenjiso ✭✭✭

    I expect the MLR is not so much building endurance as maintaining it, and maintenance is always a chore compared to building something new.  During my last two MLR's I've worn an mp3 player to listen to podcasts, which I didn't feel the need for previously on outdoor runs.

  • Yeah glad it's done, I've never really ran with music because I can usually just switch off and enjoy the outdoors but I was annoying myself today. Do you use a special type of headphones? Because the last time I tried they kept falling out of my ears.

    You might be right about these runs being more about maintaining fitness Ten, I love running but 6 days a week is a lot, I'm missing my bike!
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭
    I quite like the mlr's, as long as I've got something to listen to. Today was the new Bowie album.
  • Never ran with music myself, I tend to try and switch off and just go with it, I think it sort of builds my mental strength to some degree, 20 miles on my own, running just with my thoughts, maybe its me but I quite like it.

  • Great running Craig - you make me smile how you just get on with it! I would lean towards the endurance monster pace on McMIllan I think when I do mine.  I have only done one 5k, pace for that was 7:06m/m and that was 8 months ago so not idea what my current 5k pace is.  Probably around 7:00m/m or just under.  Will do a parkrun soon though as tune up race, can't do Salford 10k as my husband is going in for varicose vein removal the day before, be a bit much for me to f*ck off to a race a few hours later! 

    AgentGinger - Brilliant news!  Nothing lovelier than first child being born.  Enjoy the next few months of peace though!  Your partner may feel a bit different once baby is born re training for a marathon next year, if you do your fair share of the graft with the baby, good bribing tool! 

    JF50 - intervals first thing in the morning - you are hardcore.

    I listen to music when running and also Marathon Talk podcasts.  Some of those are really good. The Manchester marathon one from last year was good and also had great interview with Nell McAndrew on it. 

    Did 10 miles with 7 at tempo.  The tempo was a joke, I had to stop a few times for traffic, tractors and when I turned around and came back (ran out and back) mid run, I felt absolutely wrecked and had to stop and sort trainer laces as foot was niggling.  Lesson learned - DO NOT do circuits and spinning 12 hours before the hardest LT session in the plan.  Was a bastard.  Hobbled home with dreadful DOMS.  But I did it, as disjointed as it was - middle 3 miles were hilly and kept pace between 7:49 and 7:35 which is perfect really.  10 miles in 7:56m/m, can't complain, that was my HMRP 5 months ago.  Good news, foot was fine!  So as long as I can keep myself injury free, I am BACK! 

    Well done everyone on the V02 sessions, I have my first next week, looking forward to the change in pace.

    What does everyone think re 2 week taper?  I am considering it.  Been reading up a bit on it and concensus seems to be (Hal Higdon especially) that 3 weeks is a bit OTT when you have done marathons before.  Any thoughts?  Means I can keep in the extra week I have lost through my total incompetence re counting back the weeks. 


  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    If I ran with just my thoughts I'd end up a blubbering mess.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    HeOw - well done on your tempo. re. 2 week taper...your call. The 1st week of a 3 week taper is pretty high mileage still anyway, 70 to 80% of max. Still has the hard sessions in there too. But - most guides have the taper three weeks in length so there must be a valid reason for it!

  • MennaniaMennania ✭✭✭

    15w - No music just my own company for distraction for me, Its amazing how the miles fly by quickly when you have something to focus on.

    Been to physio and have torn a muscle in my lower abdomen. Sounds worse than it is but am resting up today and had ultrasound. No VO2 max for me from now on but should be ok for the rest. Means I got home with nothing to do for once - felt quite panicked at the thought so went out for a curry with the missus!

  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    Well, I cut short my MLR (even though I normally like them) to 12.1 miles instead of 15 as about 10 miles in I started getting a weird twingey pain in my right calf. So I just went home as we ran past my road and did some stretching. Not as intense as the last time (which was left achilles), but feels a bit uncomfortably going up and down stairs. Bugger. Anyway, don't think it's anything serious but I can't run tomorrow anyway because of work stuff and being too lazy to get up early, so will have a bath and another stretch, then an unscheduled rest day.

    Men  & HeOw, glad to hear you both seem to be on the mend, and what an excellent excuse not to do VO2 max sessions.

  • Hell fire everyone's getting injured!

    Lit and Men hope your ok.

    Heow, I don't see a problem with a 2 week taper just make sure your last 2 weeks is similar to the book, as 15w says the first week of the 3 week taper is still quite a hard week anyway. Good run today by the way!
  • Did the 15 miler.  Still quite cold at 4 degrees, feels like 1 after wind chill.

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