P + D training for VLM 2013



  • ** repeats to self **  "I must not race my long runs, I MUST NOT race my long runs".  

  • HeOw wrote (see)

    ** repeats to self **  "I must not race my long runs, I MUST NOT race my long runs".  

    Unless there is another runner up ahead.  Or worse, one behind who is catching up.

  • HeOw once you get your long run up to 16 miles why not every other week aim to do the last 5 or 6 at MP. I know that sounds difficult but you will be surprised how after the first couple of times you do this how easy it feels. I have done this for the past two marathons, just don't do it every week. I think LSR get you time on your feet but also teach you to plod and come the big day it's difficult to hit your splits but if your used to doing this in training after a full weeks work and at the end of a long run it gives you that edge.
  • I have done consistent 12-15 milers week in, week out No Pain since Chester.  Been between 8:10 and 9:30m/m.  I think I will do 16 miles very easy this week (around 9:30m/m) with HRM on and see where I am at with the pace over that distance, see how "easy" it really is!  I need to miss a week of training plan as if I decide to do Brighton (I have a place but that weekend was looking a bit of a no, hence dithering re Manchester) so thought I would start at week 16.  I have kept endurance up with a long run (around 14-15 miles) and medium run (10-12) every week so think I can miss first week of plan anyway.  Will definitely do like you said, add more steady (MRP) than easy miles in every other week.  image

  • NoPain, that was my concern re my last 2 marathons, I was worried if I ran them too slow, that it would teach me to run slow.  I can see the benefits of slowing them down with faster finishes, definitely.  But I will have a devil on my shoulder telling me to quicken my pace. image

  • Go CazGo Caz ✭✭✭
    HeOw - personally, I've always found it best to do the long runs slow (or been too tired to do otherwise!) and to leave the speed for other sessions during the week. And that seems to be what's advocated in P&D.

    No Pain - aren't long runs with the last few miles at MP on the schedule quite frequently anyway?

    So GFA is green start, Fast GFA is red start and as I recall, championship start, for those who are even faster, is blue.
  • I shall heed advice Go Caz!  Will do very easy pace tomorrow.  I think it is a huge novice error, running at race pace!  I find it is a fear that a lot of runners (me included) have re long runs, they think that there is NO chance if they haven't ran long runs at the same pace that they could do that pace on the day.  Burn out occurs, or injury, or they leave race on the roads. 

  • KeirKeir ✭✭✭
    Tenjiso wrote (see)

    NN - thanks! I put the kids picture as my avatar, because they are my inspiration and reason for running.  Hope people don't mind this little indulgance.

    Disgraceful behaviour! 

    No run for me today as head cold pretty bad. But delighted to hear the rain hammering down so seems like I didn't miss much. To make up for lack of training I practiced my carbo load with 7 mince pies and a Xmas school dinner. 

    Added my own target and tided up the list a bit:

    Feb 17 - Mennania - Wrexham half - Sub 1:24 
    April 14 - Tenjiso, jr2408 - Brighton - Sub 4.00 
    April 21 - Keir - VLM - Sub 2.50
    April 21 - 15West, No Pain - VLM - Sub 2.55 
    April 21 - Mennania, Mark 1981, Al runs, Surrey Runner - VLM -Sub 3.00 
    April 21 - Stutyr - VLM - Sub 3:15 
    April 21 - Night Nurse - VLM - Sub 3.40 
    April 21 - Go Caz VLM Sub 3.50 
    April 21 - Fiona J - VLM - Sub 4:00
    April 21 - Pottermiss - VLM - Sub 4.15 (would love a 4.10!) 



  • Out for a 5 mile recovery run this morning, too fast by about a minute a mile so really need to concentrate on the slower stuff.

    Have added my target

    • Feb 17 - Mennania - Wrexham half - Sub 1:24
    • April 14 - Tenjiso, jr2408 - Brighton - Sub 4.00
    • April 21 - Keir - VLM - Sub 2.50
    • April 21 - 15West, No Pain - VLM - Sub 2.55
    • April 21 - Mennania, Mark 1981, Al runs, Surrey Runner - VLM -Sub 3.00
    • April 21 - Stutyr - VLM - Sub 3:15
    • April 21 - Night Nurse - VLM - Sub 3.40
    • April 21- JF50 - VLM - Sub 3.45 
    • April 21 - Go Caz VLM Sub 3.50
    • April 21 - Fiona J - VLM - Sub 4:00
    • April 21 - Pottermiss - VLM - Sub 4.15 (would love a 4.10!)
  • 50x25m swim this morning doing drills and working the core and legs out tonight for an easy 6 miles.
  • I did the 9 miles mid week run last night. image It was absolutely foul.  Soaked to the skin despite fleece and waterproof which normally limits the damage.  Had to stop for the loo at Asda about half way through.  I must have looked a right sight trudging past the checkouts.  I didn't even want to take my hood down cos it is really horrible putting it back up again when it's soaked.  I don't think you really notice how wet you are until you stop and even worse have to put wet clothes back on. However, the running itself was fine.

    I think I'm going to swap Saturday and Sunday round this week as OH is away on Saturday and back that night so I'll feel less bad if I only have 4 miles to do on Sunday.

  • I did the 9 miles this morning.

    Avg of 7:46m/m which is about 30 seconds faster than I had planned but my HR was about 76% of max which is just about bang in the middle of what it should be for a GA run.

    I'm still quite unsure about what my PMP (and therefore my training paces) should be. Hopefully it'll all become a bit clearer as the weeks go by.

  • Five miles recovery today.

    The forecast is for heavy rain for my 13m run tomorrow.  Chance of precipitation is only 100% image   Good preparation, then, for my average race-day.  I'd better get my gear ready tonight so I don't have too much thinking time before heading out the door  in the morning.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    9 mi yesterday, just off out for a soggy 5 mile easy this morning. Flying out to Lanzarote this afternoon image

  • 15West - is that a training camp in Lanzarote, or holiday?  Enjoy your break image

  • 8 miles which is done on my hill 4 miles up and 4 miles back down, will do this in half mile intervals with 2 min rest between each interval until I reach the top. image

    15 West enjoy the sun. image

    Long run tomorrow of 16 to 18 miles image
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    A holiday. Apparently there is a training camp somewhere, but my trip will strictly be a tacky family beach affair. Hoping to stick to the P&D schedule, although may have to juggle things round a bit. I'll send updates from the local cocktail bar on the beach (or something like that).

  • 15 West, I bet you get some training in I know I did last time on holiday and within 17 weeks of the off image

    Well hill work done for another week image hard work going up but managed a 5:42 mile p the way down image
  • Have fun 15west.  Don't forget to pack your running shoes - no excuses!  Plenty of practice running in heat and high winds along the beach.

    Today's 13m run felt pretty hard.  I now appreciate why it is so important to run very easy on the easy days following this schedule.  Two weeks ago I ran 12m @ MP, but todays run (5m easy + 8m @ MP) felt harder!  I assume it is the effect of the accumulated training during the week.

    I enjoyed running in the heavy rain, though it was difficult maintaining marathon pace up a long incline (2% average for 2 miles) in miles 11 and 12 into a fierce headwind and driving rain.  I was well pleased with my pace 9:15 and 9:08 in those miles.  Overall, I averaged 10:39 pace for the first five miles, and 9:08 for the remaining eight.  

    Given my target 4:00 marathon and the tougher conditions today, I'm happy with that.  It's tinged with a bit of trepidation that this is only the end of week two, though!  There is hidden depth to the P&D schedules, I think, that is not so obvious on a cursory glance.

  • Fiona..yuk yuk yuk,,that reminds me so much of my long run last week,,except I was running on country lanes so didn't have the luxury of a supermarket toilet image the worst bit is definately pulling soggy wet tights up again...sorry guys if to much info..(I am a nurse lol )

    enjoy the hols 15w you certainly picked the right time of year to go away

    Ten yes you are now running on tired legs so well done on maintaining the MP for 8 miles and you are right ..every run in the schedule has a reason..dont be tempted to run too fast of too far...especially on easy/recovery days

    I did 9.6 miles yesterday with my son who I am staying with near London..he refused to run slowly I refused to try and run as fast as him so we compromised and he agreed to pace me   at what I hope to be marathon pace 8.15s to 8.20s we did 9.6 in 1 hour 20 so bang on..didn't have HRM so not sure about HR but felt fine  nice and flat up here though compared to where I live in Devon, nothing today or tomorrow for me now I will wait till I get home and do the 15 on monday..

  • Gym session today - shifted Monday to Saturday.  15 MLR tommorrow morning.



  • NN - that is precisely what I hate. Well done on the marathon paced run.

    15west - lucky you, I was in Tenerife in november and it was lovely.

    Ten - sounds like a decent run

    Well soaked again today. 12 miles done. I ran to parkrun, trotted round at a sedate pace with Santa hat on and then home again. Now 2 pairs of soggy trainers in the hall and the jacket has gone through the washing machine again!
  • LOL at night nurse Ive seen worse I'm a Firemanimage.....

    Fiona J I have six pairs of trainers on the go at the moment all by the back door drying at the momentimage

    Out tomorrow for between 16 and 18 milesimage

  • Happy hols 15 westimage . Nice running Tenjiso,

    A 3 recovery yesterday with a 5 aerobic today and 12 (maybe 15) lsr tomorrow. going to get a  VO2 max and Gait analysis done next thursday (christmas presentimage). Not sure what they are going to tell me and if I like it but will no doubt be interesting. Anyone else got experience of these type of tests. They are also plugging a precision hydration test?

  • Who will be doing your VO2max test menn?  Will be interesting to see how you get on.

  • No Pain wrote (see)

    Out tomorrow for between 16 and 18 milesimage

    Let me guess.... that'll be 17 miles then?

  • I'm planning ahead (shocking, I know) and have been plotting the future weeks of P&D training.  I'm okay with a lot of the general principles when I can follow the plan as written, but I'm struggling a bit with understanding the structure for tune-up races.

    The 18/55 schedule has the following, for example:

    "8K-15K tune-up race (total 9-13 mi/14-21 km)"

    Could somebody please explain exactly what this means?  If the distance is 14-21km, is 8k-15k the pace? image  I'm obviously missing something.

  • Ten - I assumed that meant a race of 8-15K with the rest as warm up and cool down.
  • TeknikTeknik ✭✭✭

    The problem is actually finding an 8 to 15k race (on a Saturday)...I normally find just one 10k less than 100 miles drive away, and end up doing a 5k parkrun for the other two...

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