Simple Training Forumla, would it work?



  • image 

    JJ, I'd be delighted to help, I can live vicariously through you image.  Give me a day or so to work on it. 


  • Cheers Louise, try not make the training too difficult for me hehe.

    I thought I would finally change my profile pic to prove I did actually do the Salford 10km, I was going to chose some profiteroles, but there is already too much cake on show.

  • No such thing as 'too much cake' surely image

    JJ, May 18 next year is a long way off.  Do you have any interim targets or events planned?

    I know you are doing 4x weekly and around 20 miles / 35k per week, but can you tell me more about the structure?  Which days do you run / rest and are you doing any other form of training on the other days?

    Also, are you trying to keep losing weight or planning to stabilise now?



  • I don't have any events planned yet, although I have been asked to do a 5km Santa Dash which I might do.

    I don't mind other events in the meantime but not sure of what to do - I don't like the idea of park runs.

    I can run any night ( I don't normally run in the mornings), and prefer shorter runs to be fitted into Sunday, Monday and Wednesdays.

    As for other forms of training, I don't do any, I have local public swimming baths close by, if needed, and I have a bike, but I am not a member of a gym.

    Don't really need to lose weight now, I think I am good as I am, but don't want to put any weight on either, so stabilise.

    I eat the following :-

    Breakfast - bowl of Fruit and Fibre with Semi Skinned Milk (no sugar) and cup of coffee with 2 sugars (300 calories maybe?).

    Lunch - at work I have a salad from the coop and packet of sushi (600 or so calories).

    Evening - I will have tuna or salmon with uncle Bens rice and occasional veg and two rice cakes or fruit(800 calories).

    Throughout the evening I will eat some fruit (grapes, banana, apples etc) and maybe a couple of rice cakes or a packet of crab sticks and maybe a couple of plain biscuits with one cup of coffee (maybe another 300 calories?)

    I am an Insurance Broker so don't do manual work but I do walk around the office a little but nothing to write home about - I guess in short I am desk bum apart from when I visit clients which is about 30% of my time.

  • Today i have commited to do a half marathon in 2014, probably the Great North Run. So that coupled with my under 55 mins for 10km are my goals for 2014. Argh.

    My longest ever run has been 15km, done a few of those and today i did it in my fastest ever time of 1:39:54.



  • Do you have a parkrun near you? I find them good as both a decent faster run and a good guide to see how you are improving over time.
  • for some reason Millsy, and i dont know why, i just dont fancy park runs.

  • Really! I think they are great.

    What is it you don't like about them?
  • OK!

    Diet - sounds good, lots of fruit and healthy stuff.  I'd be inclined to up the protein a little as training intensifies.  Taking on protein / carbs in a 1:4 ratio within an hour of completing a session is ideal.  Small piece of chicken and a couple of oatcakes works well for me, for example.  Do you eat chicken / red meat at all?  If you have a preference for more vegetarian-oriented diet, soya, lentils, chickpeas, nuts can all be useful.

    Periodic time trials.  If you don't like Parkruns no problem.  We'll just need to build in a time trial every 6/8 weeks to keep tabs on progress and to use the data to tweak paces.  For the moment we can use your latest 10k time.  Your theoretical 1 mile time is around 7:30.  (There's no great mystery, it's from the McMillan pace calculator image).  It would be quite nice to check this out though... see below

    Are you ok to stick with kilometre paces? (rather than miles?)

    And (sorry if you've answered this before) do you have a running watch?  I presume you do because you seem to have all your 1k splits.  It does make all the pacing easier to track.

    Your long run time of yesterday is a good indication of where you are. Well done on the speed, but for the next couple of weeks slow that back down a little closer to 7min per k, you need to work a little harder in the other sessions so don't want to overdo the long run and be tired for the rest of the week.  You'll also be extending that distance a little.


    Time Trial....(again sorry if we covered this before but they are useful to track progress)

    2 kilometre warm up easy jog

    3-4 sets of strides

    1.5k or 1m as hard as you can (depending whether you track k or miles, doesn't matter which)

    1-2 cool off.

    Substitute that for a speed session this week, on a day when you are feeling rested so preferably after an easy / rest day.

    You'll also do an easy run 5 - 8k at 6:45 - 7:00 per k

    and a tempo run - start gently for 1k then 3-4k at 6:00 - 6:05, then cool off 1k.

    Can you let me know which days you do which set, and how you are feeling? - or if there's anything that you don't agree with / doesn't make sense?  I am assuming that we are still going for 'simple' image








  • Chicken and rare steak for me, definatley not a veggie image

    Prefer kilometers, as have been using them since the start, but miles is ok if needed, you seem to work in km as well, so suggest we stick to KM.

    I do have a Garmin 410 with HR monitor but never used the monitor.

    LSR at 7.00 - check.

    What do you mean by 3-4 sets of strides, does that mean intervals and if so at what pace?

    Can i clarify the runs please :-

    1) LSR of 15km at 7.00 pace per km.

    2) 2 kilometre warm up easy jog, followed by 3-4 sets of strides at1.5km as hard as I can (how long recovery per stride?) and then 1km-2km cool off (but this week to be a 4) type run instead).

    3) easy run 5-8km run at 6:45 - 7:00 per km

    4) tempo run, starting gently for 1km then 3-4km at 6:00 - 6:05, then cool off 1km

    If you could kindly clarify the above, will then crack on and report back next week or would be better to report back after each run?

    My intentions for running will be :   Mon - 4), Wed - 3), Fri - 2), Sun 1).

    Does that fit ok?


  • Strides - after a decent warm up, sprint at between 75 - 90% of 'full' effort for 60-80 metres then slow jog about the same distance.  Each set slightly faster / harder than the one before so starting at about 75% finishing the last set just short of all out.  This helps get your legs turning over and your heart rate up.  No actual stop required in between sets. 

    Strides are an essential part of pre-race / speed session warm up.

    Take 2-3 minutes after strides before the 1.5k TT all out run.

    So you are all set for this week, your choice of days makes perfect sense. 

    If I've understood correctly, your next speed session will be Friday, but this week is Tempo instead.  So TT will be next Friday?


    The other most useful thing you can do for running strong is general core work.  How do you feel about doing some crunches?  And how are you about stretching post run?  Don't want you getting injured....  

  • I am getting slightly confused over the difference in Strides (I got that bit now from your explanation), Tempo, TT and Speed run - sorry maybe i am being thick, but i want to make sure i get it right before i start tomorrow.

    I havent done much core work but if i am going to put all this effort in i need to make sure i dont get injured. i do a little stretching after runs and also walk for about 3-5 mins to cool down.

  • No problem.

    Strides you know.

    'Tempo' is usually described as 'comfortably hard' - the pace you could go for an hour or so if necessary.  Your recent 10k time puts that at around 6 minutes per k pace.  Running this pace conditions you for race pace, but you don't run race distance. 

    TT - time trial - after warming up, you'll go flat out for 1.5k to get a pace over that distance.  You'll do that every 6-7 weeks to track progress and to provide data for managing your pace targets.  That will tell us if you are on track with progress or not.

    The 'speed' sessions (some people like to call them 'quality' sessions but I think that's a bit affected image) are where you are pushing faster than race pace; so it's mainly Interval sessions.  But if you do a time trial you've basically used up that slot.  You try to manage the high effort sessions to be 10-15% of total mileage most of the time, to minimise injury and to not be overtired all the time.

  • Thanks, just what I needed.

    I will report back after this weeks runs.

  • I was going to type something but decided to wait until the end of the week.

    However some good news, my charity place for the Great North Run 2014 is confirmed. With working on under 55 mins for 10km, I am hoping for under 2 hours for the half marathon.

    I have done the first 2 runs already, the tempo and the easy run already, I have times / splits feedback etc to report back at the weekend.

  • Congratulations on the GNR place image

    Look forward to hearing how the week was.

  • John, if I remember correctly that will give you about a 1 in 45,000 chance of being the first ever 1 Millionth finisher in an organised race anywhere in the world!

  • LOL Andi.

    Hotel also booked for GNR so i am ready to go now hehehe.

    Ok training, i have completed 3 of the 4 runs with the LSR @ 15km to go at a pace of 7.00 which i know i can comforably do with feeling a little tired on the last 2km.

    I thought i would feed back now to give time to look at my info ready for next week.

    Monday - tempo run of 5km, times were - 6:31 / 5:45 / 6:02 / 5:58 / 6.52 - Felt like an easy run and one to look forward to as a rest type run.

    Tuesday - Easy run of 8km, times were - 6:29 / 6:40 / 6:37 / 6:59 / 7:06 / 7:02 / 7:02 / 7.00 - Felt easy and focused on posture. Running within myself.

    Thursday - tempo run of 6km, i messed with my watch to try for an advanced programme and the 1km laps didnt record but i did the 1st km in 7:01 and the whole run at 38:42 - Didnt want to run tonight but forced myself out, struggled to get going but then was ok, the 1km cool down felt tough on my calves.

    Saturday or Sunday will be 15km LSR.

    Do you need any more info or is that you wanted?

  • JJ, that's great information. I'll be interested in your level of fatigue during /  after the long run.


    One thing though - you've done two tempo runs but no Time Trial.  Can you do one after your next rest day?  We need that to confirm your paces / baseline for progress.

  • Ok will do, thought it was 2 tempo runs this week.

    I will do the following then on Saturday :-

    2km warm up easy jog, 4 sets of strides (80m each getting faster each interval). Then 1.5km as fast as I can giving the time over this 1.5km, then 1-2km cool off.

    Then i will do a 15km LSR on Monday.

  • Perfect!

  • TT done, 2km warm up then 4 x 60m - 80m sprints ( as fast as i could sprint), then 1.5km TT run at 5.18 pace.

    I was dead at the end of the TT and could not really do the cool down jog so walked home for another 1km.

    Sweating, tired and out of breath !!!

    Monday will be LSR and i will report back on that, tomorrow night i have booked a massage lol.

  • John, great, I'll work with those numbers.  Have a good rest tomorrow and don't push too hard Monday - although you had a couple of 'easy' sessions this week, the miles are starting to mount up.  Don't want you injured!

  • OK JJ - I think I've got it worked out fitting in with your preferred days etc, 5 runs per week.  I did a little summary table of a typical week, with type of run / distance for each outing.  I've left it a bit flexible, so you can swap easy sessions around / rest days.  If you need to drop down to 4x per week then drop one of the 'easy' runs.

    It would be good if you did a bit of core work / basic strength on a couple of the 'easy' days if you can find the time.

    Type  Day Distance Pace Short (Speed) Monday 8 * will depend on interval distance Midweek Easy Tuesday 10 06:15 - 06:45 Short (Tempo) Wednesday 6 05:40 -05:50 except for warm up / cool off Rest / x / swap Tempo Thursday     LSR Friday 15 06:30 - 07:00 Rest / x / swap Easy Saturday     Short (Easy) Sunday 7 06:15 - 06:45

    Intervals this coming Monday - 3 or 4 sets of 3x 400m with a 100m walk / slow jog in between.  3 minutes rest between sets.  Pace 01:55 - 02:00 minutes for 400m (ie around 5 min per k pace).   Do 3 sets and if you still feel strong do the 4th set.  Try and keep the pace steady.

    These paces are based on taking the first minute off your 10k time (ie target 56:30) over the next 8 - 10 weeks.  At the same time you'll be building up your basic fitness and weekly mileage.  Getting up to 21k won't be too tough on top of this base in a few weeks time.

    Let me know how it goes / any questions...image


  • ah the table didn't show I'll retype.  Distance / paces are all kilometres 

    Type                   Day                Distance    Pace

    Short (Speed)     Monday           8                * will depend on interval distance

    Midweek Easy    Tuesday          10            06:15 - 06:45

    Short (Tempo)    Wednesday      6             05:40 -05:50 except for warm up / cool off

    Rest / x / swap Tempo Thursday               

    LSR                    Friday              15            06:30 - 07:00

    Rest / x / swap Easy    Saturday                     

    Short (Easy)      Sunday              7            06:15 - 06:45

  • Thanks for that, I have been working away in London the last two days and ran with my colleague last night but he only managed 4km so my LSR of 15km didnt happen. I will be doing my 15km run tomorrow now.

    Until Monday I will do a couple of other runs ready to start the programme, which seems straight forward to me apart from the Monday 8km Speed run as I am not sure what speed to run at.

    Am i doing the same distances and speeds now for 8-10 weeks?

  • JJ, this Monday's info got a bit buried in the text because the formatting didn't work - here it is -

    3 or 4 sets of 3x 400m with a 100m walk / slow jog in between.  3 minutes rest between sets.  Pace 01:55 - 02:00 minutes for 400m (ie around 5 min per k pace).   Do 3 sets and if you still feel strong do the 4th set.  Try and keep the pace steady.

    The interval distance will vary over the next few weeks.

    We'll keep these paces and monitor how you are feeling after a couple of weeks then can sharpen them up if you are finding it too easy.

    Keeping distances more or less steady for a few weeks.  When we build for half mara the midweek and LSR runs will extend a bit. 

  • righteo, i will report back at the end of next week, Just got in from 15km lsr at 7 pace, last 2km was a tough but overall not to bad until then.

    Speak in a week.

    Still cant believe your happy to put this effort in to help me, i am most grateful though.

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