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HADD Training Method
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My stats for last week.
51 miles
7 hrs 41 minutes
Including 3x20min 80% subLT run
14 mile 'long' run (2:02)
Ave pace 9:10/m
Ave HR 133 (69%)
My 5k time plus 3 min mile is around 12.15, I'll run this from now on, what am I looking for in order to monitor progress? I'm quite happy to do this for as long as what it takes too, how will I know when I've reached the required standard at this pace though?
Now, over time running at this pace, your HRs will come down and down. You need to be patient, though. I think perhaps that when this pace matches 75%, you could start adding in the subLT runs. This pace will come down to 70% and then we can work on getting 70% to match something like 5k + 2 minutes.
However, working out percentages depend on a reliable HRmax. Being a relative novice, a max test is not yet possible. Your legs and lungs will max out before your heart gets there! So, a proper test can be done at a later stage. (This is another reason for suggesting running to pace rather than HR.)
Another thing. Hadd training or, for that matter, any decent bash at aerobic base training, will require higher mileage. 'Officially' Hadd only begins at 50mpw. However, many people have seen results on less. It just takes a lot longer. Do you have the time to invest to increase your weekly time on your feet? The more you put in the more you are rewarded! As Lydiard said: trials of miles.
Been following this forum. Would you recommend base building for complete beginners? Tried it a couple of years ago started at 17 min miles then got down to 15. Should I have continued?
Or would a more traditional approach be better like c25k and get a decent amount of weekly miles before starting base building. Thoughts?
Thanks, Mike.
Hi Sol, thanks for taking the time to reply (and am definitely an Ian without the extra I lol). I'll stick with that pace for four weeks and the review the average bpm and see what the results are. I'll use the 190 max hr as a working hypothesis for the time being, and look for the average bpm to come down to around 143( ie 75%). Then try some sub lt which if I'm reading correct are 80%, but I'm presuming for me best done as intervals like 3 x 20, or 2 x 30 mins once or twice a week? I'll keep an eye on this thread and post some updates, I'm constricted with time with a busy job, family and extra curricular activities (school governor and church warden!) so tend to run when ever there's a window, will try and crank up more time though. I'm genuinely enthused about trying this but have promised myself I'll be patient!
Last daft question on average pace, presumably it's okay to slow down uphill and then catch up on flats and downhill?
Sol2 - it's much easier for someone who is aerobically unfit to reach their MHR in a test. When you are an aerobically well trained it's very hard to reach MHR.
MJD - chose the method of training that you enjoy and fits in with your life, whatever that is will work for you. Base training is great for beginners as it slowly builds up strength in the muscles, tendons etc. However, most folk turn to base training when they decide that they want a few more race PB's or that they get injured in traditional training with speedwork.
Iprice - I think your post repeats as you are refreshing the thread from the same device as you made your last post so it repeats.
Don't know how that last post from me appeared lol. Anyhow I Martin I use a Garmin Forerunner 235, it seems to be fairly responsive
My general advice is not to push the hills hard, but go up them at a comfortable pace and accept that the HR is gonna climb to allow this. Let it do so, but bring it back under control once you get back on the flat.
Of course, if your normal training route is very hilly, this could mean that you spend more time above the planned HR zone than actually within the zone. In which case, you will not get the right training effect, so find another less hilly route, at least until your fitness improves to such an extent that your HR can stay within the zone on uphills.
As the other guy said, don't over-think it. You are just trying to spend a large percentage of your time within a training HR zone. Going outside the zone (above it) for a few moments won't do any harm so long as the majority of time is spent where it should be.
Read more: http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=2668169#ixzz4WmXIBJBH
Yeah and also going too hard up the hills means it takes much longer for your HR to settle back down again. I just drop the pace a little so the HR doesn't rocket up
My starting stats from a 95 minute run on the dreadmill (was freezing fog and horrible well below minus wind chills this morning)
Mile 1 - 12.30 min / mile average hr 128
Mile 2 - 11.59 min / mile average hr 147
Mile 3 - 12.30 min / mile average hr 151
Mile 4 - 12.35 min mile average hr 154
Mile 5 - 12.39 min mile average hr 153
Mile 6 - 12.44 min mile average hr 159
Mile 7 - 12.35 min mile average hr 161
I'm sceptical about the pace recorded as I kept the treadmill on the same speed throughout, the graph on Garmin Connect indicates I continually sped up and down (which I didn't) so don't think the Indoor Run on the Garmin records speed accurately.
Anyhow I'm guessing the figures show my aerobic system needs a lot of work, just wondering if maybe I should have actually just stopped my run after mile five?
80-82% is quite high % for base training and I'm not sure you'd ever hit 70% training at that pace. Maybe you could try running at 75% for a while and I would guess within 4 weeks your pace would be down to your 5k + 3 mins.
I've never followed the 5k + 3 mins pacing, bit of a purist and preferred to run by % MHR even though is was very slow to start with.
Hadd is still working well for me as I hit my 5th PB in a row today, taking 31 seconds off my Parkrun time.
24:34 still looks big compared to some of you, so I'm hopeful of taking a bit more off maybe in another attempt in April.
Martyn - well done on yet another PB. Please stop comparing your times to other runners, you are doing really well and made massive improvements, other runners will be envious of your success.
Iprice - IMHO the 5k + 3 mins is a bit of a copout for those that aren't prepared to start at the beginning, it was never in Hadd's original article he just introduced it on the letsrun forum I think to pacify some folk that were moaning.
I just can't see that running at 82% will end up with you being able in a few weeks to run the same pace at 70%. Many find 70% just too hard at the beginning and use 70 -75% at the start of their base training.
Cheers Shades, I'm just trying to show that its not that quick although its doing wonders for my confidence.
I used to hammer myself if I missed a PB in early 2016, so I'm just enjoying the ride.
Tbh Iprice, I said I would leave it to the others to comment but you just need to make a decision as to if you are going to do it at. If its 70%, 75% or 5k plus 3 mins pace, you just need to stick with it and trust the training for a few months.
I did it the same way as Shades, starting at 70% but would be interested to hear from others that maybe started with the 5k plus 3 min pace rule.
Weekly stats slightly skewed this week as i did not wear a hr strap in the 5k race.
36.13 miles
@75% average pace
6 hours 46
@11:15
I did a 15.37 mile run in the woods this morning with my club, with the first 4 miles on the road. I am hoping this run had my legs having the affects of an 18 miler or more as it was up and down a lot of big hills in the mud which must of been much more taxing on my legs than a 15 mile road run would of had.
How did everyone else do?
Well done on the 50 mile week last week Sol2 (forgot to reply last week).
I've only got one race planned which is the GNR in September so got plenty of time on my hands and want to do this properly.
My question was badly written by me an open to misinterpretation, was trying to ask hypothetically if I kept going at that pace would I eventually hit 70% but. It actually intimating I was intending to do this.
Martyn - hills are good for leg strength! I did a hilly long run too today 17 miles with 1400 ft of hills, and the first 4 miles were flat, I did find it tough on the hills.
Iprice - it's not always easy to phrase stuff on a forum!
Don't forget RW are switching to new website this week, we can post on this forum on old website but after a certain time, think it's 1a.m. on Monday those new posts won't be transferred to new website.
Great minds thinks alike Shades, I don't pay any attention to the hr on these runs though and even hit 95% of my maximum hr on one of the hills. Any races before March the 5th coming up?
Shades- lol indeed, seen many battles over the years on different forums too.
Martyn - Cheers, I do think too much, think it was Sol on another thread said as long as you're running at a pace you could hold a conversation at comfortably you're not gonna go far wrong. I'm gonna batter on at 5k plus 3 and keeping checking the average HR on the splits end of every week and see what happens.
Ian, you can do whichever works best for you, you decide. Hadd has said both ways, although, as Shades said, it could be that the 5k+3 option was only thrown in to pacify his naysayers. Now, regarding your other question should you keep going even though the HR is rising above 80%? I don't have anything to go in, but my guess is, yes. Just make sure that it really is still a conversational pace.
Martyn, nice PB! Enjoy the feeling - you've worked hard for it!
My stats for the week.
Overall mileage. 50.
Total 7hrs 30mins.
Including 2x30 minute 80% subLT
And 2hr 34 min long run of 17 miles.
Other than the subLT, average HR 70%
Average pace 8:48 - a little faster!
Keep it up, guys!
Sol2 - it's very hard to actually reach your MHR especially if you already have some aerobic training, which obviously you have as you were at the end of a half marathon. Getting close to MHR is a pretty awful experience and if you don't
throw up
think you're going to die
vomit
need oxygen
then you can probably add on a few beats, say 5 depending on how you felt at the time.
Well done on your race PB especially as you had to weave around the slower runners at the start. Shame the course was short, but despite that you know that your training is going really well.
Martyn - good to hear the bathroom is finished!