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P&D Spring Marathon Training Thread
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The mid week ML is a key part of the schedule. Split it at your peril.
Freddy - what andrew said . The purpose of the mid week run is to build endurance and support the long run. Key session.
There is a page or so in the book about when to use doubles and their value compared to doing one long continuous run.
Getting up earlier it is! Looking forward to starting!
Freddy - my alarm is already set for 5.40am on Tuesday mornings...and it's only going to get earlier as the weeks go on. My wife thinks I'm mad and I quite possibly am!
Rest day for me today - I feel soooo much better and full of energy. Somewhat strangely, tomorrow's 9mile GA sounds quite easy at the moment!
Freddy - doing one long is better than doing two short...but getting up that early is going to be real tough...so if you're feeling knackered and drained then give yourself some extra sleep and do the two. If you do two best to make one shortish (4 mi?) and the other longish (11?). Sleep is a big part of the recovery process.
+1 for keeping the midweek 15 as 1 run. I think it's probably the crux of why Pfitz works so well in general
I too think that the midweek ML run was one of the things that made running the actual marathon feel manageable for me last year. But I don't think I'd be getting up at 5:30am or before either.
andrews - I think if you are doing an MP run the average pace guideline for the whole run doesn't apply - just do the warm-up at your normal easy pace.
andrews - you will find those mp runs hard...I always find them really hard and struggle to keep to mp for the whole required distance...but they are meant to be hard so your body adapts. They should get easier the more you do...but P&D ups the distance of them to keep them tough...the bastards.
when i did my mp run yesterday i did 3.5m warm as normal. Stopped, had a stretch and reset my garmin, did 8 straight miles. Stopped again and had a stretch and reset my garmin then ran 1.5miles as a cool down.
I would rather go out and run at 10pm than get up at 5.30am!!
Lit, yes I think you're correct, otherwise the pace for the slower miles is awkwardly slow.
I ran 4 at the slower end of my ML/LR paces (7:18-7:58) then 8 at 6:32 (target MP of 6:38). It was pretty tough, but I think I'm ready to start the plan with a goal marathon time of 2:54.
Just hope I can avoid injury this time around!
Regarding early starts; in the past I've had to get up at 04:10 to fit long runs in before Sunday day shifts. Will be grim for a spring marathon - but think of the glory!
Was up at 5:30 am today to practise the 9 with 4 @ tempo. Felt hard but good.
Felt really awake afterwards and now the rest of the day is clear for other pursuits. So early starts get my vote.
Early starts for me too... If I don't get out to run first thing in the morning I dont think I would get out at all.
Yeah, but there's early and there's actual certifiable insanity. I will not be getting up at any time that doesn't at least start with a 6.
(disclaimer: I work a 15-minute bike ride from my house, have slightly flexible working hours, depending on the day, and don't have kids)
Thanks Ryan & Lit. Food for thought! Not sure why I was so fast last night. Having run an average total of only 5 miles a week for the last 2 months, I guess I was extremely well tapered!
On reflection, I suspect Ryan's guess at my LT (7:36) is not far off. I had preconceived ideas that I would be pretty terrible, and probably fell into the trap of working slightly too hard to compensate for that... hence went faster than my true LT... but if I take an additional 15-20s per mile (up to about 7:36), then I should be the right side of the line. But I'll wait until I've done a bit more - and the suggested 10K - before being more definitive.
You'll be knackered later though.
There was a time when i just couldn't run mornings but i've done a reverse over the last year.
Now i can't imagine doing a full days work and then having to get home in the dark and changed to run 12-15 miles or 10 with 5 tempo.I'd never see my kids during marathon training.
Bed around 10, alarm for 5-5:30 , out without thinking about it, done and dusted by 7:30. Hardly any traffic and zero obnoxious teenagers hanging around on street corners to deal with.
There's also something very satisfying about finishing a session as the sun's coming up
I really admire those who can get up that early to run, especially during the winter.
I'm far more a morning person, running into work where luckily have access to showers. Although I think that I'm going to have to work hard at convincing myself about doing the long mid-week runs when it's cold out in the morning!
6 April: Brighton
mace - 3:05 18/70 with some fiddling about
Nose Nowt - 3:40 - adapted 18/55
Lisa 123 - sub 4 - 18/55
6 April: Lochaber
StewartC - sub 4 - 18/70
6 April: Manchester
Kease7 2:59 18/70
Debutant 3:05 18/70
NSGNR - sub 3.45 - mix of 18/55 and 18/70
AgentGinger - sub4 - 18/55
6 April: Paris
yer_maj - sub 4 or die - 18/55
13 April: VMLM
Ryan Snell - sub 2:45 - adapted 12/85
15West- sub 2:48 - 18/70/85 (mix of both)
Andrews148 - sub 3 - 18/70
Freddy 1 - Sub 3.00 - 18/85
DT19- Sub 3.05 - 18/55
Literatin - sub 3:05 - 18/70
Ramjet - 3:25 - 18/70
Dr.Dan - 3:25 - 18/55 (Haddapted)
running220 - sub 3:30 - 18/70
Shazmo – sub 3.30 – 18/55 (may reconsider goal as currently injured)
Rachelcgen - sub 4:30 - 18/55
21 April: Boston
Shazmo – sub 4 – 1 week recovery after VMLM
6 May: Milton Keynes
Xyloid - sub 4:00 - 18/55
I'm doing manchester, hoping to under sub 3
Yep, I would say i envy those that can get up and be done for 7.30. Balancing this train around seeing family as well will be quite tricky as it peaks in feb/march.
Just say bye to the kids until the spring.
6 April: Brighton
mace - 3:05 18/70 with some fiddling about
Nose Nowt - 3:40 - adapted 18/55
Lisa 123 - sub 4 - 18/55
6 April: Lochaber
StewartC - sub 4 - 18/70
6 April: Manchester
Kease7 2:59 18/70
Debutant 3:05 18/70
NSGNR - sub 3.45 - mix of 18/55 and 18/70
AgentGinger - sub4 - 18/55
6 April: Paris
yer_maj - sub 4 or die - 18/55
13 April: VMLM
Ryan Snell - sub 2:45 - adapted 12/85
15West- sub 2:48 - 18/70/85 (mix of both)
Andrews148 - sub 3 - 18/70
Freddy 1 - Sub 3.00 - 18/85
DT19- Sub 3.05 - 18/55
Literatin - sub 3:05 - 18/70
marrows - sub 3:10 18/70
Ramjet - 3:25 - 18/70
Dr.Dan - 3:25 - 18/55 (Haddapted)
running220 - sub 3:30 - 18/70
Shazmo – sub 3.30 – 18/55 (may reconsider goal as currently injured)
Rachelcgen - sub 4:30 - 18/55
21 April: Boston
Shazmo – sub 4 – 1 week recovery after VMLM
6 May: Milton Keynes
Xyloid - sub 4:00 - 18/55
Hello everyone. I'm new to here and usually cagey about targets but decided this semi-public-somewhat-anonymous-sort-of-commitment may help motivate me. I think it'll help with speed if I can drop a kilo or two, so feel free to remind me not to eat so many pies. Anything you others need or want to be nagged about?
YUM, pies! It won't be anonymous when we demand your race number so we can live-stalk your 5km splits and then look up and laugh at your photos post-race. But welcome.
It a shame so many of us are running London, as that one provides the best live stalk technology
Just looking at the list above, I seem to be the only person aiming for sub 3.30 not doing a 70 mile plan. Am i missing something or perhaps being a touch naive in terms of my targetting?? I much rather under promise/over deliver than vice versa!!
6 April: Brighton
mace - 3:05 18/70 with some fiddling about
Nose Nowt - 3:40 - adapted 18/55
Lisa 123 - sub 4 - 18/55
6 April: Lochaber
StewartC - sub 4 - 18/70
6 April: Manchester
Kease7 2:59 18/70
Debutant 3:05 18/70
NSGNR - sub 3.45 - mix of 18/55 and 18/70
AgentGinger - sub4 - 18/55
6 April: Paris
yer_maj - sub 4 or die - 18/55
6 April: Zurich
cleanshoes - sub 4 - adapted Higdon novice 2 for now, then 12/55
13 April: VMLM
Ryan Snell - sub 2:45 - adapted 12/85
15West- sub 2:48 - 18/70/85 (mix of both)
Andrews148 - sub 3 - 18/70
Freddy 1 - Sub 3.00 - 18/85
DT19- Sub 3.05 - 18/55
Literatin - sub 3:05 - 18/70
marrows - sub 3:10 18/70
Ramjet - 3:25 - 18/70
Dr.Dan - 3:25 - 18/55 (Haddapted)
running220 - sub 3:30 - 18/70
Shazmo – sub 3.30 – 18/55 (may reconsider goal as currently injured)
Rachelcgen - sub 4:30 - 18/55
21 April: Boston
Shazmo – sub 4 – 1 week recovery after VMLM
6 May: Milton Keynes
Xyloid - sub 4:00 - 18/55
Apologies I appear to have slightly damaged the formatting, but at least I get my own section.
DT - overall mileage is just one part of it - most important is getting in quality sessions on your long runs, LT runs and (to a lesser extent) your VO2. I got sub 3.30 on probably about 30-40mi/wk.
I have question regarding the different plans. If a runner runs the up-to55 mpw and runs all their runs at the prescribed paces for their target time, on the day should they be able to meet their target?
If so, why then opt for 70 or 85 mile plans?
Also, has anyone else had problems accessing this site in the last couple of days?
Andrews- that essentially was my point in a less direct way. If the 55m plan works what benefit is there in 75m given additional injury risk.
There is a bit in the book about this...I think in first chapter. Overall mileage does help a bit with your endurance which is why the elite runners are running over 100mi/wk. So, more the better, but fitting in more miles around work and family etc means less chance for decent recovery and more chance of injury.
I ran London marathon last year and followed the 55-70 plan and got 2hr50, and then followed the 70-85 plan for Chester and got a PB by 50s. Not sure if the extra mileage is worth the extra 50s to be honest! So, this time round doing the long/mid/lt runs from the 70-85 plan, but the recovery days from the 55-70 plan. I think as I get older I need more recovery, I felt too knackered over the summer to hit the paces required for the mp/LT/VO2 runs.