Howdy, Stranger!
Categories
Options
P&D Spring Marathon Training Thread
The materials in this website are in no way intended to replace the professional medical care, advice, diagnosis or treatment of a doctor, qualified personal trainer, therapist, dietitian or nutritionist Runners's World, Part of the Hearst UK well-being network © Copyright 2017
Comments
DT19 - I am targetting sub 3.30 and only doing the 55mpw plan. I did the 55 plan last time round and substituted the recovery runs for cross training. So in reality my weekly mileage was never more than 45 miles. I still managed a 20 min improvement and got 3.39. So (for me) I can still make improvements without the high mileage.
Having said all of that, I'm currently injured, so I think my sub 3.30 target will have to be revised. I can't see me running any time soon
Shazmo- Thanks for that. Will you do the same this time re recovery runs??
I ended up doing 10 miles last night instead of the prescribed 8, just because I had the time. I forgot to pack my new runners and my old ones are clearly done for. Felt like I was running in plimsoles. As a result the middle of my left foot is now really sore. Think i will spin tonight as recovery as got xc tomorrow as my LT run.
Turns out we're getting an earlier train than I thought tomorrow, so I won't have time to do my 13mile LR before we head off in the morning (i'd need to be up about 6:30 tomorrow to get it done before we need to leave the house, frankly that's not going to happen).
So instead I'm going to run home from work tonight. This means skipping the 4mi recovery run, and running a day after the 9mi run yesterday, but that was a fairly relaxed jog, and my legs feel fine now, so I don't think it should cause too much bother.
I'm towards the other end of the scale I think. I've little natural speed and managed to duck under 4hours at the Yorkshire marathon by ramping up my mileage to about 50miles a week. I'm now shooting for somewhere between the 55 and 70mile version, but I may reduce that depending on how I find it. I'm curious as to how I'll cope with it because I'm currently running my long runs (and medium long runs) a bit faster than I'm used to and there seems to be quite a bit of "quality" in the P+D plan. I suspect, for me, it's about trying to get the balance right between quantity and quality of miles.
DT19 - I also do fell racing so last time round I used most of the recovery slots to recce (walking) various fell routes. They are time consuming and I wouldn't have been able to fit them in around the rest of my marathon schedule otherwise. So, my recovery sessions were either fell walks or x-training in the gym.
This time I want to be more road focused and follow the P+D plan properly. I'm ditching the fell racing (certainly between Jan-April) and will do the recovery runs. I am still sticking to a max of 55 mpw though. I don't think my little joints could more mileage.
As North Runner says, (for me) it's finding a balance between quantity and quality.
Do any of you guys or gals use energy gels in training, and for which runs?
I generally find that for a GA run I don't need water or sugar for anything up to 2 hours (based on a fairly relaxed pace).
Beyond that I start to wane a bit. Certainly in the marathon itself, i'll be running for (hopefully just under) four hours, so will need something to fuel. I've picked up some SIS gels to try, but wondered if people generally use them only for specific long runs, or on every long run? And when you do take them, do you tend to take them from the start of the run, or only after an hour or so?
AG - I only took one or max two gels on a few long runs to see if I could get them down while running, and without slowing down, but didn't think I really needed them. I took them after at least 10 miles just because I was running the second half of the long run faster so thought it would be a better simulation of taking them closer to race pace. I did have a slight panic though just before race day thinking 'oh no, what if my stomach can handle two gels but not MORE' but it was fine. I only ended up using three gels on race day anyway due to a cock-up on my part (totally failing to see my lovely RW forumite supporters despite the giant banners and balloons).
PS: in the mileage/quality debate, I'm quite convinced by the theory that it's the easy mileage that supports the long run and faster stuff and allows me to do it without injury. So I do higher mileage so that I can do more quality (as well as for the endurance benefits).
I only use them in marathon races, and maybe one or two on one long run to practice. I use the SIS Go ones. I think as you get better at endurance, burning fat etc., you have less of a need for them. Still, after a long run I am usually pretty bloody hungry and thirsty.
5 easy miles for me today. Maybe a short run or nothing tomorrow. Stockport10 on sunday.
I am trying to get used to them. I only take them in training on runs beyond 16 miles. Not bothered in a race before.
Easy 4 miles at lunchtime, lower legs and foot feeling a bit strained from the worn trainers last night. XC country tomorrow so happy just to get a basic run in today.
Re : gels.
I really don't like them - have tried various brands with/without water etc. and all of them taste horrid, and all of them give me GI issues.
As a result, I am racing VLM with no sugar assistance. I'll grab a lucozade sport if i feel i need it later on but plan to drink only good old water
I try not to use gels on training runs, except for on some of the ones with marathon pace elements.
Trying Clif Shot Blocks this time.
I do use gels on longer training runs, but I am a much slower runner than some of you and my porridge won't last me longer than about 2.5 hours. Having said that, I'm trialling shot bloks today on my 14 miles....best to find out early if they upset my stomach or not! I usually use High 5 isogels, not had any problems with them so far.
16miles for me this morning with 8@PMP. In reality, about 6 were at marathon pace, but this felt good. I finished with a park run (it's only a mile from home), which made those marathon pace miles feel fairly easy.
Day out with my wife today, sans children - which is a rarity! Happy running folks.
Oh, and I tend to use gels for runs of 18miles or over.
mace - 3:05 18/70 with some fiddling about
Nose Nowt - 3:40 - adapted 18/55
Lisa 123 - sub 4 - 18/55
6 April: Lochaber
StewartC - sub 4 - 18/70
6 April: Manchester
Kease7 2:59 18/70
Debutant 3:05 18/70
Hush 3:14 18/55
NSGNR - sub 3.45 - mix of 18/55 and 18/70
AgentGinger - sub4 - 18/55
6 April: Paris
yer_maj - sub 4 or die - 18/55
13 April: VMLM
Ryan Snell - sub 2:45 - adapted 12/85
15West- sub 2:48 - 18/70/85 (mix of both)
Andrews148 - sub 3 - 18/70
Freddy 1 - Sub 3.00 - 18/85
DT19- Sub 3.05 - 18/55
Literatin - sub 3:05 - 18/70
marrows - sub 3:10 18/70
Ramjet - 3:25 - 18/70
Dr.Dan - 3:25 - 18/55 (Haddapted)
running220 - sub 3:30 - 18/70
Shazmo ??? sub 3.30 ??? 18/55 (may reconsider goal as currently injured)
PJH92 - sub 3.45 - 18/55
Rachelcgen - sub 4:30 - 18/55
21 April: Boston
Shazmo ??? sub 4 ??? 1 week recovery after VMLM
6 May: Milton Keynes
Xyloid - sub 4:00 - 18/55
Tomorrow I am doing a workout even P&D would balk at - 18 with 10 @ HMP! Otherwise known as jogging the 4 miles to a 10 mile race. Feeling a bit nervous about running at HMP for so long but I guess it is just a case of keeping up with the people around you.
In other news I got my London place confirmed at the club Christmas do. I had been told I would get it only to find out there was a ballot! Luckily there were only 5 people going for the three places and I was last one out!
Happy LSR tomorrow everyone.
First week completed and everything is still working as it should
. My main goal this year is to complete the training injury free and actually be able to run the bloody marathon!
Did my LSR yesterday after my coached swim tri session - crikey that was really tough going so am not sure how I will manage this once runs the go over 16 miles, may well have to re-jig my running days.
Gels - didn't use any in training last time but may try them on training runs of 18 miles and above to ensure they don't cause me any stomach issues during marathon.
Good luck to those racing today.
Have a 16m LSR in plan today, could be longer if I get lost in Richmond Park! My food experiment will be jelly sweets, seeing how they are to eat on the run.
Xc done yesterday as my LT run and not feeling particularly sore for a change. Easy 7 today to complete week.
Just a word of warning on the P & D plan if you are over 40. I did the 50 to 70 plan last year for London and still haven't recovered from the stress fracture it caused and thus am out of the 2014 race.
With regards to the gels, the blurb says to take them every 20 mins, so for a 4 hour marathon that would need to take 11 gels! Do people really use that many?
Bad luck Surrey Runner,
Do you honestly think there was a particular aspect of P&D that caused the problem - or do you think your advice is aimed at an over-40 person who's following ANY high mileage plan??
Do you have any specific advice? Like what you think brought on the stress fracture, and what symptoms you had before it got really bad?
Cheers
Hi Nose,
The symptoms started on the last practice race at the beginning of the taper/last week of the third section. At first seemed just a twinge and I thought would go as I was in taper but it didn't. Got quite worse in the week before the race. As I was warming up in the enclosure I had sharp stabbing pains in my shin. Did the race of course but was in pain towards the end. The adrenalin and the heightened level of fitness because of all the training enabled me to complete.
I think the fast repeats in the last section contributed rather than the total quantum of mileage. The consultant I am seeing said that over 40s heal a lot slower than youngsters and the faster you go the harder the impact/damage. If I am ever in a fit state to do a marathon again then I will avoid the fast repeats.
Xyloid - no, I don't think so. They'd be a bugger to carry, too.
Hi Surrey Runner, sorry to hear you're still injured. I always think similar when I see those lower-mileage plans that are practically all fast-paced quality runs, e.g. the FIRST plans - some people say they're going to do them to avoid injury but to me it looks like keeping in all the riskiest bits and not the lower-risk easy running. Hope things improve soon now you're seeing someone who sounds like he knows what he's doing.
I wonder if Rachel is still lost in the park?
Not lost, just got back. I managed to stick to my pre-planned route with only one need to check the map! And avoided getting in the middle of a bunch of Santas as well
The run went well, 16 miles in 2:52. Last mile was pretty horrible, the legs were definitely wondering why I was running longer than ever done before. The other issue was keeping it slow enough, ended up at 10sec/mile faster than planned, (but still within target range for the run). Realised I've just run that at a faster pace than my first ever 10k race
Then again, couldn't manage a marathon at an even faster pace currently, but that's what the next 4 months training will do!
Surrey Runner completely agree with what you said about the faster paced stuff as I too managed to get a stress fracture whilst training for Chester Marathon back in July - I am *cough* 39 and as a woman this is also increases the risk.
I have been back running since beginning of October, although I am still getting some irritation around my tibia and calf but I am taking it slowly. I haven't been back to my running club since the injury and feel that I have learnt the hard way that I can't do both endurance and speed work. Fingers crossed that I stay injury free this time, and I really hope that you get back out there once you have fully recovered.
Well done Rachel for completing the run and not getting lost en-route
Hello.
Well done Rachel.
Did the Stockport10 this morning. Don't think I got a PB but was pretty close...61.40 says the garmin. Was doing ok for first 5 miles running at about 6min/mi, but then hit this big hill at mile 5 which totally buggered me and I never really recovered. There was another meaty hill in the last mile which pretty much finished me off. I'm no good with hills as most of my running routes are fairly flat. Anyway, nice little race that, and top commentary by Tony Audenshaw
Yes but what was in the goody bag?
Oooh. I haven't looked!
Nice running 15W
A fairly steady 14 before work today (2pm start)
First double figures run that wasn't a race since the marathon in September!