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Hansons Marathon Method
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TT, to get me to buy in to this, I decided on a custom plan. Luke Humphrey (the book author) put together the plan based on my running history to date, recent results, where I thought my strength / weaknesses were, and target races I had planned in. Luke also advised on the goal time (I had initially put forward something less ambitious to him).
I considered one of their coaching options, but I think I need to show some discipline before I do that. So for now my interaction with Hanson Coaches is done with now the plan is finalised.
I was interested to see what sort of mileage they came back with as the 2:40 - 3 hour on line plans are based around 80 - 100 pw, What I received is very close to the books advanced plan - peaking in the mid 60s, and slightly higher than I'm used to. I'm good with that . The few times I ramped things up, my quality workouts suffered. Averaging 117 mpw - that was big!
Adding some pace / goals to the thread:
Hanson Coaching prepared the 20 week plan with a marathon goal of 2:43:00, and the following training paces were provided:
Easy: 7:00 - 7:30 min/m
Moderate: 6:30 - 7:00
Marathon (Goal Marathon Pace - GMP): 6:10 - 6:15
10K: 5:40
5K: 5:30
Easy Days:
Approx 50% of the plan will be 'easy' mileage. First question is what is 'Moderate Pace'? All days denoted as Easy in the plan are to be run at an easy to moderate pace, so we have the range 6:30 - 7:30.
Flexibility is provided to make use of the moderate pace - it is not set in stone. Example use: a Saturday Easy run is preceeded by an Easy Run on the Friday, and use of the moderate pace would be suitable, while the Monday and Friday easy runs follow more intense workouts, so working at the slower end of Easy Pace would be used (I never said it was rocket science).
This easy pace is a difference to the pacing notes set out in the Hanson Marathon Method book, where a 'slow easy' and 'fast easy' pace is indicated as GMP+2 mins and GMP+1 min. I have rechecked the easy pace as it doen to tally with the book, but have been told that the pacing was set based on my background.
Tempo Runs
All tempo mileage is to be run at GMP (6:10 - 6:15), and will increase from 5 miles to 10 miles, plus warm up / cool down
Strength Runs
These are more focused on lactate threshold, and are run at GMP - 10seconds, so 6:00 - 6:05, and cover 6 miles using long intervals
Speed Workouts
Will be run at 5 to 10k pace, and cover about 3 miles at pace per session.
Long Runs
I will cover these separately later on, as it is one of the more contentious parts of the plan
Week 2 Ended with 42M @ 6:58.
Very comfortable mileage given the absense of any quality sessions .
Week 3 introduces the Tempo session to be run every Thurday, with a block of miles @ GMP.
I will look at putting up a view of the plan when I get chance
It is very interesting to see how the way the schedule stresses your body will encourage it to adapt in an entirely different way to the conventional schedules, AR. Keep it up!
Cheers MSE. First tempo session was run tonight, with 3 wu @ 7:2x, 5 MP @ 6:13, and then 2 c/d @ 7:2x
It felt good to break out of the easy runs. The tempo session will build to 10 -12M @ 6:10 - 6:15 over the weeks. They like you to get a lot of MP miles in.
After next week, speed work is introduced - slightly 'inverted' coming in early on in the plan for 8 weeks, and then replaced by threshold type sessions for the remainder.
Once the speed work is introduced I will start to get a good feel for the method.
I will look at putting up a view of the plan when I get chance
That would be interesting, A-r, as it seems that the paces are on average a bit slower than P&D.
In comparison to P&D :
Tempo = MP runs ( though P&D go from 8 to 14 @ MP )
Strength = LT ( P&D a bit quicker though @ MP - 25/30 secs )
Speed = VO2 ( again, P&D a bit quicker as target = 5k pace )
Mace - I had a go at getting a view of the plan off the site it was provided - but it is a no go. I will retype it and put a link to it
With the pacing, I was set a goal marathon pace, and all other paces provided to me came from that, so for me the 5K and 10K paces are a lot quicker than I did on P&D VO2 sessions which were based on recent results. I'll have to see how I get on as they look very quick for me.
The Strength / LT pace is designed to be run at 60 - 80% of VO2 max, but for simplificiation, as most of us don't have VO2/LT tests, they use the MP-10s rule. Under P&D type LT runs I was running very close to my actual threshold (which handily equated to my 10mile / 1hr race time), so I expect this to be slower in Hansons.
So for me, some are quicker, some are slower, a lot more marathon pace, but not in distance (I tried the 14 mile MP run in P&D - tough session!)
Plan details: I will provide a link to the full plan and progress. Here is the first few weeks for now:
Link
You're doing well to be almost sticking to the plan
Will post when I put up the full plan. I also got sight of the 60 - 80 miles pw plan recently - it was interesting to see the number of 18 - 20M long runs compared to my plan which tops out at 16M. Bit of plan envy is creeping in
Full plan can now be seen on the following link. I will regularly update the link below with progress. I will just post on here if something goes ping, or I cave in and run a sneaky 20 (which won't happen).
Link to plan
Millsy - it already feels so wrong that I keep questioning everything. I keep having to remind myself that there is nothing to lose as I was going to skip the Spring Marathon. So head down, and don't think about it!
This sunday I get a double figure run of 10 miles. Should that feel like a long way already?
I remember an interview on Marathon talk where they used the theory of "what if the opposite were true?" Sometimes you just have to put faith in doing it differently and seeing what happens.
Ha! - that one was the interview with Poacher on the sub 3:15 thread. He'll be pleased to know his words stuck.
Remember the plan your doing is tailored so you dont have to do a 20 miler.
Your putting in more miles through the week, so the long run is really the last few miles of your marathon (thats the theory anyway) doing your long run on tired legs.
this plan looks great. might give it a shot.
What sort of times are you guys heading for?
AR. looks interesting
Never been a fan of smashing long boring miles myself, so as im still on the fence as to do a spring Marathon i may just try something similar and see where i am fitness wise come end of Jan.
Good luck with it and ill keep tabs on your progress
I wondered what you were up to CL - let us know what you do for the Spring.
Speed work
First speed session in the plan today. The early speed work sessions aim to develop VO2 max, which will then be maintained ongoing in the strength & tempo sessions (Hanson's book theory, but also possibly due to local historical reasons where/when the plan was developed)
Today's was 12 x 400, 400m jog recoveries. Weather meant the treadmill for this. I'm still a novice to intervals and am unsure what this session gives. From what I understand reading Daniels, 2 mins is needed to get up to VO2 max territory so an intervals of 4 to 5 mins is ideal. This was short intervals, and with the 400m recovery, it was quite a light session as it went. Pace came out as 5:34 for the reps (theoretical 5K pace is 5:30) , and I kept to a steady 7:30 as the recovery.
Next week moves on to 8 x 600m. If I re-run todays again any time I will cut the recovery down.
up to date plan
Onwards.
I'm really glad you have started this thread. I purchased the book last Xmas and have been reading lots of forums since about the Hansons and have decided to use it for my Paris Marathon. I ran London in April at 2:55 using P & D but have suffered since the marathon with on and off injuries. The last 3 weeks I have managed to build my weekly mileage to 60 miles and started this week the Hanson 60-80 mile, 16 week plan which an American gave me from the running ahead website. This plan has 6 x 18 mile and 6 x 20 mile long runs. I see your custom plan has no run over 16 miles what are your thoughts on this?
Good to hear from someome running to a Hanson plan. The mileage on my plan hovers around the 60mpw (I was previously averaging low 50s) so I understand where the 16s came from. When I received the plan I was half expecting to see a few 18s and possibly the occassional 20 in order to hit the target. Certainly the 'off the shelf' plans included this for ambitious times.
I remain sceptical, but am going with it and see what happens. I may increase the easy mileage so that I'm averaging 70mpw, in which case the LR may include 1 or 2 18s. I'll stick with the method - I have a good understanding what bashing out the 20s does for me, so I'll avoid reverting to normal training patterns to give Hansons a fair go.
What made you decide to try Hansons this time rather than another P&D campaign. There seems like lots of interest/users in the US but little here. I hope you can keep the thread updated with any progress / info as you go through the training. Good luck!
I used P & D for three marathons in 12 months and got a PB with each one. The only problem I had after each race I ended with an injury that put me out for a number of weeks. I then lost all my fitness and had to start again.
I've decided I want to try something new and I've been actively reading about Hanson for sometime but like you there is very little to read on UK forums and information can be found only in the US.
I've only got 14 weeks to train for Paris so I doubt I'll beat my 2:55 at London but going to train for 2:55 using the Hanson method. Looking at the off the shelf plan I've got this next week goes to 71 miles which is a big ask so soon and I think I'll use the book adding miles on to the easy runs.
What I am going to find hard with the Hanson plan is intervals and a MP run every week. I'm a big endurance runner and hate speed work so this is going to be interesting. At what pace will you run your long runs as the book gives the long run paces about 40 secs above MP pace which is going to be tough on tired training legs?
RD, on the LR pace I'm in the position that the runs are relatively short so will be following this guide that they provided on long runs:
"The following guidelines should help out when designing training plans. The first is to keep a time frame in mind, as it’s more important to accumulate time spent on your feet than it is to run a certain pace." I need to be running in excess of 90 mins to get some benefit so keeping the pace down will be key
So the majority of my runs will be done at the slower end of easy pace (7:30). I will run some miles at my moderate pace which was given as 6:30 - 7:00.
I have seen the 60-80 20 week plan and usually the plan specifies easy, moderate, or a mix of paces during the long run. There are also some long runs with MP miles in, but that is in weeks without a Tempo session on the Thursday. My plan has me running Tempo's every week, so won't be running MP in the long runs.
I imagine if you run them at your easy pace, and up to 30 - 40 seconds above MP you will keep in line with the plan.
Intervals and MP session in the same week, two days apart is a bit of a concern for me too. I have never really given speedwork a go, so need to tread carefully on this.
How's it going AR?
Hi SJ - by coincidence I have summarised Week 1 to 6 which I came to post. Great timing!
Week 1 to 6 Plan Summary / Progress
Summary plan (pdf of 20 week plan)
All sessions and paces met, along with an increase in mileage above the average I had provided to Luke Humphreys. Two quality sessions midweek, but as yet no Long Runs
have started at the weekend which still makes me a little nervous. It feels a little like I am training for a half marathon!
Stats weeks 1 to 6:
310 miles @ 7:03 min/m pace, broken down as:
Easy to Moderate 91% @ 07:09
Tempo (Marathon Pace) 7% @ 6:12
Speedwork 2% @ 5:35
Currently taking a rest day every other week, and the amount of cross training I now do is fairly small.
Paces are comfortable, although the last 6M tempo felt a lot longer after a few extra Christmas pounds being carried. Easy pace could do with some real slowing down.
Health / injury wise things are ok. Feeling a little sore getting used to regular speed work, followed by a tempo run two days later.
Plan Amendments
No significant changes to the plan needed at present. Excecution wise, I will try to run more often at the slower end of my Easy Pace band.
Will continue to add in some extra easy mileage in line with the Hanson method as warm up / cool down miles, recovery run on rest day, or extending some Easy sessions
No changes to midweek quality mileage needed at this stage
Long Slow Run mileage is still capped at 16 mpw. If miles per week averages over 65 miles, then there may be some scope for increasing to 17 /18 miles on the Sunday run. At the moment averaging 60 miles per week feels about right so I'll stick to plan. It is still several weeks before I hit 16 miles though.
Conclusions
I'm enjoying the mix of sessions and paces that the plan provides; it feels balanced and I am consistently averaging higher weekly mileage than normal without it feeling forced.
The downside is that I don't feel like I am training for a marathon as there is no progressive increase in LSR mileage happening; meanwhile everyone around me is racking up the LSR miles.
Thinking about racing marathon distance makes me nervous, so I will ignore that minor event on the horizon for now and keep the blinkers on.
Onwards ....
All sounds good AR, out of interest, where would you 'normally' be in terms of weekly mileage, pace and LSR distance?
Andy, by this time last year there was 16 / 16 / 18 / 20 / 20 LSR for VLM. These were run 7:55 ish pace or slower
Easy runs were not far off current pace around 7:20 - 7:30, but I also had 'recovery runs' which were as slow as I wanted.
No speed work / marathon paced stuff. I did some threshold runs (4 - 7 miles) which were coming out around 6:15 - 6:20
I was averaging high 40s / low 50s at this stage last year, so I would say I've upped my miles by 10mpw. That was a trip down memory lane
hehe, and thanks for the comparison, am looking forward to the results and hope it'sall worth it for you (and the thread followers). I might re read the book come April