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Hansons Marathon Method
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Great result Nell
Pretty sure a 'get me round' 4:30 marathon debutant wont be running 60-80mpw. Which was kind of the point - 20 miles at easy pace would take them a long time
On the other hand, someone peaking a 80mpw could well be a be a sub3 marathoner. They could cover around 20miles in about 2:30 at around their easy/steady pace - about 7:40 miling
I wasn't sure what your point was Nayan. If you are interested in the plan then I recommend reading up. The 4:30 debutant and the 2:45 aspirant will equally carry a lot of fatigue and would most likely be as likely to get a cold as a P&D plan. These plans all fall off the Lydiard branch. Same principles, different execution.
Thanks AR, glad I made the decision to follow it after your updates earlier this year ;0)
Hi Nayan, Yes the miles are all relevant on the ability of the runner. There is a lot of focus from folk looking at the reduced mileage on the LSR as to the whole balance of the plan.
What you say is right on the better ability of the runner covering more ground more quickly on the LSR and the example from Luke Humphreys training plan in the book has him covering 20 miles on the LSR.
I enjoyed the plan and glad I decided to go for the tailored one.
Hi Andrews, The P+F plan is no stroll in the park ;0)
Huge congratulations to you Nell Blue! Great time and it sounds like you enjoyed the plan and the race itself.
I used the Hansons Advanced plan over the summer to get a 6 min PB at Chester marathon. (3:19)
Loved not having to fit 20 mile weekend runs and 15 mile midweek runs into my life like you do with P&D.
Doing the speed work early on made for some nice 5K PBs in the summer as well!
BTW I am curious about this 60-80 mile plan. The advanced plan in my book only goes up to 63 miles. I didn't see a 80 mile plan. Have I missed something?
Ramjet, the 60-80 is available to buy as a PDF from the website. (I have just tried to send you a Private Message, but you are not set up to receive them.)
Thanks Andrews. I have bought it. It looks meaty!
I think I will do a slightly lower mileage version of it. They say that your long runs shouldn't last over 2:30 and a 20 miler will take me at least 2:40 so I may top out at 18 milers.
I like the idea of progression runs - a great way to mix things up a bit and a good challenge. The plans in the book are rather less creative.
63 miles a week. Mm' that's an old one. Sounds like the collapse point mileage suggested by the late Cliff Temple.
Collapse point = 3 x your average daily mileage.
That's not hitting the wall. It the point where you simply just fatigue into the ground.
🙂
Thanks MsE, I must add that it has been the best recovery after a marathon also. In the past I have had ITB issues after the marathon, but the legs are feeling strong again already.
I think I have worked out what you are on about Ric!
The theory says you need to do 1/3 your target race distance a day to run it well? So if we round up 1/3 26 to 9 miles a day that is 63 a week.
Like most convenient training formulas it falls short in practise. I know of sub 3 marathoners who only do 50 miles a week (damn those genetic freaks!) And the elite 5000 metres athletes do over 100 miles a week.
Just jumping in here, bought the book. Looking for a new plan for Boston next yr. the thought of the 'shorter' long run is very appealing but it's higher mileage overall than I am used to.
Worried about the hills in Boston and whether this plan will prepare me. Anyone got any thoughts?
marathon PB is 3:39.
Thanks.
HI MB1, I came out of the plan feeling a lot stronger than I had before and also felt recovery was a lot better than I have had before. The cumulative training can be testing at points, but I found it worked.
Everyone is different, I ran more miles than I have before in a training plan, and yes you may not have such an extended mileage LSR but this is a different plan to the traditional, hence the miles elsewhere in the training week.
If you are strong after your training, the elevation should not be a problem...I complement the training with 2 or 3 sessions of S&C during the week.
I'm following the 60-80 plan, but by running an 8-day week to fit better with my work shifts. I run an 8mi Easy on the extra day I have added after the long run, and run 8/7 of the weekly mileage, but over 8 days. So, if the plan says 60mi, I'll do 69mi over 8 days. 80mi week = 92mi 8-day.
I'm following paces similar to Also-Ran's, hoping to tuck in just inside 2:45 in London .
After running a few P&D plans, it's nice to have a bit of a change.
Hi, this is all very interesting. I have just turned 60 and have a wish to complete another marathon. I last ran one age 56 in 3:28 and have run a 1:33 half marathon this year. I think I may still have a marathon PB in me but I don't want to spend so much time on long runs at weekends hence the interest in the Hanson method. I wondered is there any way that age is factored into training programmes - ie is the Hanson approach better for older runners? Any thoughts/ideas from runners Age 55-65.
I am doing my first marathon (London) in 4 weeks. I ran a 90 minute half in 2016 without much training other than trail runs with my dogs so I must have some natural ability but had a couple of kids so done limited running since. I am doing the HMM program. Started in the beginner program (skipped the first 5 weeks) then switched to advanced about week 11. I have been pretty committed and consistent doing the 6 sessions a week other than one week during a holiday where I still ran but it was reduced.
My minimum target was sub 3.30 but my aspirational target is now 3.15. However, I have always managed to beat the paces and achieve or beat the weekly mileage which made me think is it possible to do faster, like 2:59.59 which sounds crazy.
My Easy runs are trails with my dogs 5-5.30 min km's
My Speed runs were 3.50 which transitioned to Strength runs at 4.00
My Tempo runs started at 4.12 but are now 4.00 (to do a 2:59.59 the pace is 4.16)
My first 15 mile long run was at 4.55 but once up to the 16 milers they went to 4.35 and are now 4.22. They are pretty hilly and I should add I don't alternate between 16 miles / 10 miles, I just do 16 miles every week so have done more than I should to this point and have a couple more to go.
I have probably averaged 90k a week for the last 5 weeks, 80km before that.
On the one hand you could say I have been an idiot by overreaching on the paces and distances and maybe it will be my downfall but I feel good.
My last hilly 16 miler was 1hr 52 mins (4.22 min km's) after having done 60k already that week. I admit I was knackered by the end and probably wouldn't have managed much more. I was averaging 4.30 up to 13 miles but feeling good I sped up for the last 3 miles. I guess you could say that simulates the whole point of HHM that cumulative fatigue helps you feel strong at the end when others might be tiring.
The big unknown I have and I know this gets brought up a lot, is for the all the miles and faster paces I have put in I haven't done more than 16 miles. Am I to trust that if I can do a 1.52 16 mile at the end of a week of HMM running, that come race day after tapering I could avg that pace (4.22), or better (4.16), over the full distance. Maybe doing a slightly slower first 10 miles then smashing the final 16 miles.
It feels like such a gamble. If I go for 4.16 and 2:59.59 I have to do a pretty quick first 10 miles knowing I can sustain it to at least 16 miles but with the worry I might burn out for the last 10. Equally I don't want to take the first 10 too easy that it's too hard to make up the time in the last 16 even if I feel great.
If you haven't got bored of reading my waffle I would appreciate advice or feedback from someone that has used HHM and how you felt after 16 miles and how you managed the first 10. I know the first 10 will need to be slightly slower to account for warming up and getting through the initial crowds.
I'm thinking a 1hr 9 or 10 then seeing if I can do a 1hr 49 or 50 last 16. If it doesn't work then hopefully I'll have enough left in me to do sub 3.15.
Thanks.
I have used Hansons successfully but unfortunately am not at your pace (I trained for, and achieved, 3:50)! What I can say is that the training really does prepare you despite the relatively short 16-mile max run, and the majority of people (me included) seem to report that they feel much better during the last 10 miles than they have in previous marathons. It really is the cumulative fatigue that you mentioned meaning that you're more closely simulating the last 16 miles of the marathon rather than the first 16 miles. I have only used Hansons once so far (although am about to use it for the second time in a race later this month) - unfortunately I was forced to run a virtual marathon at the time because we had gone into partial lockdown and all events were cancelled, so it wasn't quite like a normal race day with no race atmosphere and no crowds to worry about. I ran the first 10 miles exactly at target pace and felt absolutely fine - then I just carried on at the same pace and carried on feeling fine! I only started really feeling fatigued right at the very end, but I was so close to finishing at that point that I could sustain the pace, and it didn't really matter. It was a totally different experience from my previous three marathons where I really struggled and felt awful for the last several miles. I also feel that the adrenaline and atmosphere of a real race day would have helped.
With the paces that you've been hitting in training, I personally wouldn't think it would be too much of a gamble to stretch your target as you mention. The crowds at the beginning will likely slow you anyway, but I would be tempted to gradually build up to the 4.16 pace over the first couple of miles and see how things go. It's not far off the 4.22 pace you did for your 16, and I'd honestly have thought that if you could sustain this for a hilly 16 training run on fatigued legs, a few secs faster per km would be feasible as race pace. If you use Facebook, I'd highly recommend joining the LHR Running Community group - it's run by Luke Humphrey (the author of the HMM book - he often comments himself) and is full of very experienced and helpful runners who will definitely give you advice on what you've asked above. It's also quite inspiring as it's full of people's Hansons success stories! Plus, if it helps, you'll find several people a) worrying about only having done 16 miles (and getting reassured by everyone) and b) worrying about the 10-mile tempo pace not feeling sustainable for a whole marathon (and again getting reassured by everyone)!
Please do report back and let us know how the race goes. I was introduced to Hansons by a guy on this forum who'd had great success with it (and am very grateful for his recommendation), but I haven't come across too many people in the UK who use it!