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Hansons Marathon Method
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I'm just curious to see what happens. I know what my gut instinct says, but you just never know ... for me it will be job done if I get through the whole cycle and stick within the 'rules' of the Hanson method. I'm ready for walking the last 10 miles if need be
Actually looks like a really solid block of training AR. Good work so far and stick to the programme - you are our guinea pig!
Week 7
Met the quality workout targets and continued to stretch the easy mileage:
Summary plan file (pdf)
Easy 54M @ 7:10
Tempo 7.2M @ 6.13
Speed 3M @ 5:34
Without a coach, I will have to slap my own wrist as I had set out to slow down some of the easy runs, but if got a little quicker.
Week 8 will be a cut back week (low / mid 50s) and is the first week to include a long run (14M). This would have been a typical mid week medium long run distance in training gone by.
I need to put a bit of thought on how best to run the Hanson LR's which as to be paced 'easy to moderate' (7:30 - 6:30 pace) . A time on feet approach would probably be best at this stage, rather than running progressively or with a fast finish.
Looking good so far, AR. Keep on with it!
Hansons sounds perfect for you then if your strength is in endurance runs but your weakness is in speedy stuff! It is not the first time I have heard of injuries and P&D being spoken of in the same sentence either. I am wondering whether Hansons is a suitable alternative amounting to less time on feet but more quality in there? This will be interesting with a couple of you to observe!
Yes Mick - I picked a copy up from a book shop (very old fashioned I know
). It should be available on line through Amazon.co.uk, Waterstones or other good on line book shops
Well I'm two weeks into my Hanson plan up to 80 miles and have hit all the paces recommended so far. My only concern is my long run this Sunday is 17 miles at moderate pace at 7:04. I think that's a big ask especially after a week of two quality runs and 50 miles the bag before the long run. Also-ran what did Luke Humphrey suggest for moderate pace at a long run with your plan?
Good start RD.
His plan has them all to be run at an 'Easy to Moderate' pace.
Easy: 7:00 - 7:30
Moderate: 6:30 - 7:00
He hasn't been that prescriptive in how to structure the long runs, so I will be mixing them up, most easy paced, and a few progressive. I'll also take some ideas from the book. There is plenty of fast stuff mid week, and I think I really need time on feet, so I will probably stay around Easy for the first couple of LRs.
When I saw the 20 week 60-80mpw plan I noticed the planned LR's were a bit more specific in how to structure them. Some weeks there was no tempo, but MP sections in the LR. Is that how your plan looks?
As it happens, this weekend is also my first long run - only 14 miles for me though
Yes there is mixture of long runs at moderate pace and with mp in them. But there is also tempo runs in the same week together with the speed/strength runs. I finished London in 2:55 so would love to crack 2:50 in Paris. I'm hoping the faster paced plan will bring that out. What time are you aiming for?
RD. Goals and paces are shown below, and most of my posts have a file linking to the plan. I'd be interested to read the goal, and paces you are working to.
The goal was suggested by Luke Humphrey. I'm not exactly confident on that as I am still trying to get my head around the long run length!
Interesting thread , will keep an eye on it
AR- My 2:50 training paces are:
Easy 7:23-7:56
Moderate: 7:05
Marathon (Goal Marathon Pace) 6:29
10K 5:52
5K 5:42
I didn't think I could hit my moderate pace but how wrong was I. Today i did 16 miles @ 6:58 average pace followed by a 1 mile cooldown at 8:18. Finished my week on 64 miles and feeling fresher in my legs the next day to run again compared to the P & D plans where I would be running at slower paces. I just hope I can keep this up for another 11 weeks until Paris.
Well, that was a strong run RD to finish off the week.
My week finished off with a 14M LR. First LR of the campaign and not a distance I would have classed as a LR previously when marathon training. It felt a bit weird to be heading back home so soon.It was fairly uneventful, just needing to check my pace so I got plenty of time on feet.
I was going to be making this week a cut back as I've been putting in extra easy miles. I failed miserably; at the moment I'm feeling good on runs, and am still taking the opportunity to extend warm ups / cool downs etc. I've potentially underestimated the mileage I can handle on this plan, but will address that in a couple of weeks if I am consistently training at a higher volume. Other than for a cut back week, I'm looking to avoid the yo-yo weekly mileage. I will study the 60 - 80 mpw plan to see how it differs to the custom plan I have, or even see if Hanson's do a mid plan review.
This week in numbers (week 8 of 20)
pdf plan link
66M, average pace 7:04
Easy 40.6 @ 7:15
Tempo(MP) 7.3M @ 6:13
Speed 3.7M @ 5:35
LongR 14.3 @ 7:19
Hey everyone - the nice people in sub 3 pointed me this way.
I am a Hanson fan. First marathon, with unstructured training:3.30. Second marathon, following Hanson from RW article:3.08.
Now, for my third, I've bought the book and ambitiously aimed for sub3. Having listened to P&D fans I'm going to add a bit of mileage to the general plan and some extra strides etc. Hills come wide the territory where I live.
maybe I can be I guinea pig with also-ran, just a slower and less experienced one!
Rereading that post it's lucky dexterity is not essential for marathon running #bananafingers
Hi BW. More than welcome to join in the 'fun'. RunningDevon is also on Hansons. He has a hold of a 60 - 80 mpw Hanson plan which is quite different from the book, what with the higher weekly mileage allowing for longer long runs.
Although I'm on a custom plan, on the whole it resembles the book plan so will have an idea what you are up to.
What Marathon are you aiming for?
Tempo day today for me with some extra easy miles. I really wasn't feeling it today, and 8M at planned MP seemed to run on and on forever. Hopefully next weeks repeat of the session will be better
Also-ran I am running London for the third time - has given me a huge buzz each time so I am keeping fingers crossed it will again.
Can't touch you and RunningDevon for pace but have been adding a couple of miles to each long run and will continue to do so. Ditto for other runs when I have time.
Ran 7.3 this morning at 8.30m/m and 7 last night with intervals ladder 400-1600 an down hitting or beating 19min 5k pace.
I've made my target pace 6.45 to give me a tiny bit of wiggle room on race day (6.52 is bang on 3hrs).
My PBs btw are 5k:19:07, 10k: 38:59, HM: 1:26, M:3:08.
Haven't competed for more than a year and I know those times don't scream sub3 but I'm going to give a bl**dy good shot.
BW, sounds like you have progressed well. Is the book plan much different from the Hanson Plan you followed before.
I'm trying to follow the plan as close to the method as possible. As part of increasing my mileage I am adding extra miles in line with the book. As I am doing this more as an 'experiment', the increased mileage is being added in midweek as they recommend, and the LRs are being kept the same distance. With a consistent increase in midweek miles, that will enable a slightly longer LR for me - 17 to 18M is likely to be the cap based on a 70 mile week.
So I'm being a bit anal about sticking to the method. It is easy to do that when I'm not too bothered about the result. I don't think I would feel the same if I was really focused on a target such as a sub 3. I'd probably have a lot of problems sticking to the LR mileage
Have you got a race between now and London to check your fitness?
AR he book plan isn't that much different - a bit more detail and philosophy, time parameters and interval speed tables etc. however, last time out I extended my long runs by a couple of miles consistently and am doing the same again. It was two years ago now (injured last year) and I think I topped out with 21 miler having added to others in the week too. Total mileage was just over 1000 in the 18 weeks - whatever that works out to.
I'm repeating that roughly, adding to the Saturday run, trying to extended warm-up, cool downs etc. going to try a v light weds session this week as I need to suss out a new route for a tempo run.
I think sticking to the philosophy as you are is sensible with proportionate increases so the running tired thing works (and that is a feeling I've not forgotten!).
got a half marathon booked beginning of March and was thinking maybe I should get a 10k in too.
if it helps in any way I felt really strong running on this plan last time when it came to the day and maybe could have pushed on but didn't want to gamble too much.
BW I've got Bath HM to race at the beginning of March. When I had Luke Humphrey put a plan together for me, I gave him a few potential races that I had run previously. He only stuck in one to race, and another to use as a tempo workout Into the plan Previously I had raced 1 x 10M, 2 x HM, and a 20M race in the build up to London
If you check my plan, you can see how he swapped about the sessions to accommodate the race, including a very slight taper. Link to plan. It seems close to the way the book suggests moving sessions
Thanks AR Was debating whether to make it a tempo run or go for it. Is at Eastbourne and think it may be hilly so not sure it's PB potential! Really helpful to have someone to bounce off on this marathon journey though
Week 9 Summary
Plan file
Ran to plan, and continued with increased easy miles The tempo run was much tougher this week, and hitting the pace meant running with a MaxHR close to 90%. I was a bit despondent afterwards, however looking at data, I'm putting this down to tiredness / health as the same pace has always been met at a lower HR. Today, as part of an easy to moderate run, I had 11M @ MP+15 (the fast end of my moderate pace band) and my HR was solidly at 79% of maxHR. That has restored some confidence.
Weekly stats:
Total Miles 67 @ 6:54
Easy: 56 @ 7:04
Tempo (PMP): 8 @ 6:15
Speed 3 @ 5:32
No Long Run in week 9
Hello Big Warthog! It does look like you have made great leaps since adopting the Hansons plan. You shouldn't put yourself down at all and I think you absolutely should go for it and it will be very interesting to watch your progress as well as AR's.
Looking good still, AR. Keep it steady now won't you?
Running 5 to 6 days per week with 5 long runs between 14 to 16 miles.
So long as the miles are racking up, I do not see anything wrong with Hanson Marathon Plan.
Shorter long runs possibly enables runners to run 5 to 6 days per week over an 18 week marathon plan.
Hanson plans over 18 weeks enable you to run 5 or 6 days per week.
The long runs topping up at 16 miles serves the purpose of allowing a runner to run more days of a week and fit in as many miles as possible.
Doing long runs 18 to 22 miles usually means the next day or two has to be used as either a rest or recovery. It could be argued that cycling is a better exercise than running slow easy recovery runs. The knees take less impact during cycling and other leg muscles get a work out from cycling.
I do not see the point in LSR that take 2.5 to 3 hours to complete. Instead I run 13 to 16 mile runs under 2 hours: once or twice a week.
so is the basic idea you do lots of running to accumulate fatigue and your long runs are a good simulation of the latter stages of a marathon?
Hi RoadWarrior, there is a common misconception that "Hansons" limits the long run to 16 miles max. This is far from the case. The lower mileage plans do do this as part of the Hanson Method is to limit Long Run mileage (as a % of weekly miles, or 2.5hrs max).
If you take a look into some of the higher mileage Hanson plans, there are plenty of 20's in the schedule.
I make a clear distinction between the Hanson Method, and a Hanson Plan. Most runners are aware of one or two of the standard plans as they gained notoriety because of the 16 mile Long Run. As it is, there are many plans available based on weekly mileage / goals, or custom plans.
It is fair to say though, that the majority of runners will fit into the standard plans of 6 days per week training with a capped long run of 16 miles. I can't comment on the effectiveness of this, but will find out come April
Yes, accumulated fatigue is at the core of the plan so that you carry a bit more baggage into the Long Run. But in addition it is looking for consistency, e.g. running 6 days per week with no rest day pre/post long run, and quite a high volume of marathon pace miles mid week. My home spun Frankenstein plans had a rest day prior to the LR, and the day after I would managed 4 or 5M at recovery pace.
Long runs are the thing that I still 'worry' about, as I seem to do bugger all on a Sunday - it still feels wrong when all around you are running 20's, but there is only one way to find out, as they say!
Running 20 to 25 miles spread over 2 days would still accumulate fatigue of doing 18 to 22 mile run but not have you left incapable of running the next day or two. I cheat on long runs and tick off a 20 mile plan run when I only ran 15 or 16 miles. The next day I have the energy to run 5 to 10 miles. I would not be able to do that if I actually ran 18 to 22 mile long runs.
I aim to spread the 40 or 50 weekly plan miles over extra days and cut the mileage up into smaller runs. Pacing the marathon is the biggest challenge for me as I tend to have an adrenaline rush at the start and go for a pace faster than my planned marathon pace.
That will be a large % of your running within 2 days followed up by some short runs midweek. I've always had at least one medium length run as part of marathon training. Under Hanson's this came today with 14.5 including 8.5 @ MP
A weekly session like that might be useful to help tune into your goal marathon pace if pacing is an issue.