Are you and "in" or an "out"?

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  • Nose NowtNose Nowt ✭✭✭
    Skinny Fetish Fan wrote (see)

    On the proxy votes you are right and wrong. I am too late to apply for a proxy vote but eligible for an emergency proxy vote as my work has told me I need to be out of the country since the proxy vote deadline passed.

     

    Well that's good -but really surprises me.  What is the proxy-vote deadline for then?!!

  • But what do those MEPs do? You vote for them and then hear nothing about them. People see rules coming out of Brussels but do not know what the results of their input into the EU is, or could be. I think there is also a debate about what the power balance is between the MEPs and the unelected 'bureaucrats'. The above may feed into the impression of the unelected nature of the EU. I'm not anti-EU per se, but I do think it fails to engage with people properly and tell them what's going on. 

    I have to agree with you, runner-man, on people maximising their voting privileges.

     

  • MuttleyMuttley ✭✭✭

    "I worked for a firm which have staff mostly from Poland. My firm mostly recruits more from Europe than British. Not to be insulting, but British workers are not as productive, willing and hard-working. Where as those my firm recruits want to work hard, see our wages as a luxury, but like my Mum, they want to better themselves."

    Fair point, one we often hear. But what is your line of work, runner-man? Because when I do hear that said, I wonder if it actually means that the newcomers will do it because the locals know they're being exploited for a poverty wage. It's the phrase "see our wages as luxury" that catches my eye. Just curious.

  • So you want out because the MEP's dont come back to you to let you know what they've been doing ?



    You could be more proactive and write to them ?



    https://www.mysociety.org/wehelpyou/contact-your-meps/



    I'm sure they'd be happy to add you to their mailing list.



    Just because you don't hear from them doesn't mean you should leave Europe.



    I don't know what my cousins are up to - but that's my fault for not spending more time on facebook, I'm sure even MEP's have facebook.
  • MuttleyMuttley ✭✭✭

    And what's a Greek urn?

  • Very little if you believe his tax return

  • Booom Boooom !
  • Philomena Cunk wrote (see)

    Very little if you believe his tax return

    image

  • MuttleyMuttley ✭✭✭

    Ba doom tish ... !

  • VDOT52VDOT52 ✭✭✭
    Best thing I have seen in this campaign was a leave voter on tv yesterday.

    After being asked why do you want to leave the EU, he mentioned housing, jobs for the British and then said 'look around, show me 15 British faces?'



    I guess he meant white people. Shamefully the reporter did not ask how he could tell if someone was British by their face.



    Obviously not all outers are Racist twunts but they do come across that way.
  • literatinliteratin ✭✭✭

    When I was a 6th former, I won a competition run by my local MEP to get schoolkids of various ages to learn about Europe by doing projects (part of his efforts to raise awareness with all members of his constituency about what the EU is all about). Part of the prize for the older kids' competition was a trip to the European Parliament where I got to shadow my MEP to various debates and meetings and see the range of things they did - it was pretty full-on and really interesting for me as a teenager to see democratic processes at work. For ages after that I wanted to be a simultaneous interpreter (though mainly because they got to sit in those really cool little booths with massive headphones on).

    Anyway, if any of us are still not sure, can I just say again that if the referendum goes in favour of 'leave', it'll be extremely hard to get back in again if we change our minds. Whereas if we vote 'remain', we can always decide to leave later. So although JT141 was right to point out the attraction of voting for change rather than the status quo, it really does make more sense not to make potentially irreversible decisions unless we're 100% convinced.

  • HA77HA77 ✭✭✭

    Thanks for that Ferret, that's by far the best thing I've seen in this campaign.

  • runner-manrunner-man ✭✭✭
    Muttley wrote (see)

    "I worked for a firm which have staff mostly from Poland. My firm mostly recruits more from Europe than British. Not to be insulting, but British workers are not as productive, willing and hard-working. Where as those my firm recruits want to work hard, see our wages as a luxury, but like my Mum, they want to better themselves."

    Fair point, one we often hear. But what is your line of work, runner-man? Because when I do hear that said, I wonder if it actually means that the newcomers will do it because the locals know they're being exploited for a poverty wage. It's the phrase "see our wages as luxury" that catches my eye. Just curious.

    Well my line of work is Operations Manager for a supermarket supply chain. We do have problems recruiting and have to look to Europe. My firm pays far more than the living wage. Those who work are getting £10.80 per hour. To anyone from Eastern Europe it is an attraction. My firm would like to employ British workers but whenever we advertise we get very little. So my firm and many others have to look at the EU. Its that or you don't get the goods in the shops.

  • JT141JT141 ✭✭✭
    Should say that while I see the attraction in enacting change, as with "taking back control" and pride in "standing on our own two feet" and all that stuff, there needs to be some strategy and objective up for consideration. There isn't really.

    Although I was inetrested in what Liam Fox said when asked where he see's the country in 5 years if we exit. He said, more or less, small governement, reduced state intervention and a free deregulated market.

    So much has been made of sovereignty, democracy and state control in the debate. Is the plan to retake control in order to relinquish it to the market and private interests? Even the business market considers it more detntrimental for them leaving the EU.

    Secondly that's the same politcal ideology that's failed to gain a mandate with the public for the last twenty years. IDS and Michael Howard failed with it in leadership and most of the hardline right wingers ended up marginalised. Farage can't even get a seat. Yet here they all are back again. It's like a quiet coup.
  • Nigel Farage says its the people vs the establishment. Oh the irony coming from a public school educated stock broker!
  • JT141JT141 ✭✭✭
    Farage also says "vote with your heart". Whatever you do don't think about it.
  • It's all a scam to get Boris his ideal job as PM.



    He's been sacked from 2 jobs for lying already. He should really be sacked for the downright lies in the campaign in this one too.



    Play up on peoples fears - give them a few slogans - see what happens. That's his tactic.
  • runner-manrunner-man ✭✭✭

    Well look at this way, if we vote to leave, then Farage and co will be all out of a job and UKIP will cease to exist.

  • With respect I think the best way to finish Farage would be to tell him to f*ck his Brexut and vote remain.

    VDOT - ouch! image

    Money making money - that will be the rich you are talking about then? Think of the massive divide between rich and poor in this country, one that has been growing for decades, and ask yourself if you really think leaving the EU is going make a difference to that.

    i get that there are angry people, what I don't get is that they have been persuaded to direct their anger against the wrong thing. it's like hating  dogs and trying to make your point by massacring kittens. 

    The bottom line is you don't have to beilieve the politicians on either side but why would you ignore the experts (such as Mutts mentioned)? That's sheer folly.

     

  • runner-manrunner-man ✭✭✭

    The sadness is the public listen to the politicians because its them who are fronting the campaign. Its them you will see every day. The same for the newspaper you read. People buy it because they believe what they read. Experts do carry weight because they know what they talking about. But experts will only present information. They won't tell it to your face.

  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I think leave will win.

  • runner-man wrote (see)

    The sadness is the public listen to the politicians because its them who are fronting the campaign. Its them you will see every day. The same for the newspaper you read. People buy it because they believe what they read. Experts do carry weight because they know what they talking about. But experts will only present information. They won't tell it to your face.

    Isn't that exactly what people have been asking for though? "I just want the facts" and all that...

  • SlowkoalaSlowkoala ✭✭✭

    I think Remain will win, (reckon 53/47), but I work for a polling organisation so may well be wrong.

  • The bookies aren't often wrong but it will be close and either way the fallout may well go on for a long time afterwards.

  • http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02nrss1/episodes/downloads



    More or Less on Radio 4 went through all the issues. You can listen again.



    It's very interesting.



    They should make you listen before you can vote.
  • 15West15West ✭✭✭

    I tell you what...I'm sick and tired of listening to the arguments. Glad I switched over from the ch.4 debate to watch the Ireland match instead, much more fun.

  • Screamapillar wrote (see)

    [...]

    i get that there are angry people, what I don't get is that they have been persuaded to direct their anger against the wrong thing. it's like hating  dogs and trying to make your point by massacring kittens. 

    The bottom line is you don't have to beilieve the politicians on either side but why would you ignore the experts (such as Mutts mentioned)? That's sheer folly.

     

    Yes - this, absolutely! It's NOT the "fault" of the EU that your local pit closed, the roads are full of potholes, or your GP told you to lose some weight or you'll end up with diabetes... but "Brexit" will try to convince people of anything.

    Surely the best argument to date for voting remain is Gove's comment that if the country chooses to remain he would leave the government - getting rid of that arse-faced little twerp would be a double win!

  • RicFRicF ✭✭✭

    This business is a real political firework.

    And a firework with a mysterious outcome at that.

    I imagine a large number of the 'outs' will light the blue touch paper simply out of curiosity. Whereas the 'ins' will leave it in the box.

  • Vote wisely people, see you on the flipside...

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