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Shades Marathon Training

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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Big G - those Gu desserts are yummy. Quite a few calories but they're not that big.

    Steve - that's a hard session for early morning.  Not that long now for you until race day.

    Robert - I thought you might back out or postpone your injection.  
    Have you decided what to do about DD or are you going to decide nearer the time?

    Cal - that's a lovely photo.  

    Ian - are you still taking the beet shots?


    I heard the VLM pacer's story has been picked up by the BBC, was on Radio 2 news this morning.  Hopefully that publicity will ensure that they sort it out for next year.
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    Cal that's a good smiley photo! Glad the ankles are tough as old boots!

    Shades it came down to Tuesday's 9 miler, If I am healing then may as well continue doing it naturally and still hope to make the DD start line.  If I go backwards with the pain then I won't make DD and also reconsider the injection.

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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cal-Well done on that race,I hate trails,I've nearly agreed to run a multi terrain next month but still unsure.
    Not-So hard about semenya,it just doesn't seem right saying you cant compete as a female when she cant help how she was born.As for trans I think that is going to blow up soon,Boston now let a man who self-identifies as a woman qualify with a woman's time,no body changes required,that cant be right,what's to stop me saying in a female and getting in with a time 30 mins slower than now? Yet Semenya isn't allowed to compete in her natural state.
    Shades-Yes I am,think i'm getting used to them as the taste isn't as bad now 
    Finished work today for 6 days,glad I've a few days off as work has been hectic this week and will be tomorrow so I wouldn't have gotten much rest.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    I think the thing with Caster is that it's not just that she has high testosterone, it's that she is effectively intersex - born with male and female characteristics but raised and identifying as female. It's a thorny issue as she didn't choose how she was born.
    Similar deal with trans athletes (male to female) as, even if they're post-op and are taking female hormones, they still have the height, bone structure and density of a male, which gives them an advantage. (Female to male trans athletes would have a disadvantage against males for the same reason).
    There needs to be a third category.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Robert - so what are you planning to run this weekend?

    Cal - there is now a third category, non binary but I think it that is for people who don't feel they feel female or male, so confusing. :/

    I think Caster will either retire or move to another discipline, the ruling is only for track events. 

    Ian - great that you've got some time off so better prep for this weekend's marathon.

    Good to hear you're getting used to the beet shots.   I've been reading up on the benefits of nitrates and the beet shots etc, very interesting.   Good clinical data to support their use in lowering blood pressure and effects for athletes.   Intriguing that antibacterial mouthwash will reduce any benefit of taking nitrates, amazing how our bodies work.

    Lovely morning here, chilly but sun out early.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-I had a good read of all that and pretty much all was positive,the wife said "cant believe you'd fall for it" as I usually don't buy into anything but it seems true.The first day I brushed my teeth after having it,then read it was no good,so take it an hour or so afterwards now.
    On Caster,I see CAS recommended they relook at the 1500 as they don't see her having an advantage there so she may have won a small victory.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - Caster won a 5km race last week so that may be a distance she might focus on in the future.

    No nice minty toothpaste to get rid of the taste then ;)   But what with the beet shots and the vinegar you're probably getting used to drinking less palatable stuff 
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    A 6 mile recovery run for me, which I needed. Yesterday was a rest day, apart from yoga, which is always pretty strenuous. My calves must have been really hammered by the trail race because one of them almost cramped last night. My studio flat is open plan but has five steps down from the main room to the bathroom and front door and, when I woke up to pee during the night, I got a sharp warning stabby pain in the left one as I took the first step. Realised what it was straight away so I gave it a bit of a stretch and pulled my toe back, but it was quite sore for the rest of the night. No problem when I went for a run, though, fortunately.
    I'm off to see Helen Hall again for my follow-up. I wonder what exercises she'll give me next. The lady at the yoga studio who recommended Helen said it was the second round of exercises that made the real difference, so fingers crossed.
    My number for Gatwick half just arrived, too.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Be easier if I walked round with a drip injecting vinegar.
    Easy 4 miles today,felt nice except I remembered why I always avoid school run time.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    The thing with the Caster issue is that when she does take meds to reduce her hormones, she will more than likely stop winning her events.  So from that point of view, are the authorities correct to "level the playing field" to protect the sport?  I suppose that's the whole argument isn't it?  But on the other hand, she was born the way she is, so is it fair to restrict her natural characteristics/abilities?  I suppose the same could be said for people like Paula and Bolt - in the case of Paula I've read reports in the past that her V02 Max was exceptional even as a youngster, so should that have been limited to make it a "level playing field"?  Or Bolt with his "fast twitch" fibres?  I think most people would agree that Paula and Bolt were natural athletes or naturally gifted (and obviously worked very hard too!), so from that point of view, why is Caster a special case and that it's deemed her natural abilities need to be restricted?  I don't have the answers!

    In some ways it does feel the authorities are going after someone who appears innocent of any wrong doing, whereas other areas of the sport are rife with illegal 
    drug taking - even now, often it appears the authorities are just not taking the illegal drug taking seriously. 

    Talking about Bolt, I see there was an American teenager who went under 10-secs for 100m (with a tail wind) the other day and he's getting compared to Bolt already.  Some of the headlines said he was "just" 0.4 seconds behind Bolt which at that level I think underplays the importance of those 0.4 seconds!  Not sure what I think of his nickname though!
    https://www.eurosport.co.uk/athletics/matthew-boling-runs-incredible-100m-in-9.98-seconds_sto7251936/story.shtml

    Shoulder was a bit tender most of the day yesterday and I actually didn't do the exercises as much as I've been told (I've been told to do them 4 times a day).  But it feels a bit better today so I'll do all the exercises but just be really gentle with them.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Cal - hope your session with Helen Hall goes well.

    Ian - you will master those cramps, you've come a long way already pre vinegar.

    Big G - I don't agree with you on Caster, I don't see it as levelling the playing field at all.  
    Although they are using the testosterone levels to provide their judgement, how would you decide if she was a woman or not?  She's been classified as DSD and there are concerns that unscrupulous countries/coaches would actively look to recruit DSD athletes for competition.  Being raised as a girl/woman isn't enough.  Chromosome wise the female is defined as XX and Caster is XY.

    But of course she is innocent of any wrongdoing, just unfortunate.  I don't think she'll take the drugs, if she has enough money she'll retire, if not she'll switch to another discipline.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Well, I guess White Lightning fits him fairly well. Exceptional caucasian sprinters are quite unusual these days - I think the last to win Olympic gold was Allan Wells all the way back in 1980 (in Moscow, when the Americans boycotted). It'd be interesting to see if he continues to show that promise as he matures.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I understand what you're saying, but there are reports/quotes from other athletes in the past saying it's frustrating competing against her as they know that they have no chance of winning.  So from that simplistic point of view, it's levelling the playing field in order to ensure the others have a chance  Even Coe was reported as saying “This is an incredibly sensitive subject but it is the responsibility of the federation to create a level playing field in female sport”, so that's what he thinks part of their role is about.  It's a very complex situation - not just the sporting side of it, but the moral/ethical side of it too.

    Cal, yes, amazing talent and one to watch in the future.  Over on Flotrack, which I think is mainly American, it has been commented that other athletes who are as quick or quicker at his age haven't had that publicity.  But definitely an exciting prospect.
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    Ian All the best on Sunday, weathers looking good.

    Cal, I think there will need to be more than 3 categories and that's when it gets complicated as for prize money, records etc etc would it be recongised at all levels, club/ Olympics etc

    Big G maybe this Caster saga is a smoke screen to the real issue of drugs in sport.

    Shades will got a for easy 4 miles at lunch, depends on time I wake tomorrow will consider a parkrun, then sunday or Monday another longer run and see how the foot goes.



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    1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Ian - Good luck on Sunday!
    Good luck anyone else racing too!
    Shades - Yes, getting closer, final long run this weekend!
    Not sure if anyone has spotted it, but Jim Wamsley and a few other ultra runners are going to try to break the 100k world record in new HOKA shoes....they need to run 5:56 min/miles for 62 miles to do so!!!!!

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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Robert, maybe you're right on that.  IAAF certainly appears not to be tackling the drugs issue, which is wrecking the sport, but is happy to tackle this issue :(  
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Just looking at the list and you have 4 races in the next 4 weeks,how are you feeling about them?

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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Big G - but athletes will often say that when they are competing against anyone who is way faster/better than others.  But with Caster the issue is that she is XY.  I feel very sorry for her, she is the one that has to suffer the publicity, none of it positive. I expect she's been exploited along the way.
    This issue has been rumbling on for years, so it's good that a decision has been made, not sure if Caster can make one more appeal to another court?

    Robert - good, hope this weekend's running goes well.  If it does I would suggest you squeeze a marathon in as part of your DD prep.

    Steve - nearly taper time for you already.

    No, haven't seen anything about the 100k record attempt, where are they doing that?  Hoka's are very popular with ultra runners.

    Ian -  I'm feeling fine about the next few weeks, I know on paper it may not look like ideal DD prep but I've studied carefully my previous 'best' DD results and they've all been achieved with a race every week at least for the month prior. On some occasions I ran a marathon on the Monday and DD on the Saturday.  The only thing I need to be careful about is that the race one week before DD is very hilly so I need to not race it too hard and do a prompt recovery.
    We'll see. :) I actually have 6 races in the next 6 weeks but the 6th is Yeovil a week after DD and usually a tough run although it's a fast course as still have tired legs.
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    Steve I can't run one mile at 5.56 (6.12 was my fastest) to do that for 62 miles will be impressive.

    Shades good luck for sunday, impressive little flow of races towards DD.  Time is running out for a marathon, obviously not going to happen this weekend, the following weekend is my Birthday, I may consider a late entry into Essex and Halstead marathon, the following week I'm volunteering at Centurion's NDW50 and theres not a lot about on the sunday.  Bank holiday week maybe a bit close to DD.  I will need to get some miles in carefully where I can if I can't run any marathons.

    4 miles at lunch, felt tough but no foot pain and been at desk now for half an hour.


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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Robert- Halstead is a lovely marathon, if you get a chance to do it.

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    1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Shades - More details here, it's in the US. Might be going for the 50 mile record too!!
    Rob - They will likely hit 100k in the time I got through 50k during my 100k!! Crazy pace!
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Steve - thanks for that link, really interesting.  Some of the runners might struggle running on the flat when used to trail.
    Look forward to seeing the shoe as well. 
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Hate trying to navigate our train system,looking at trains for tomorrow and my local station to newport is £92 return,the next stop(3 mins drive)is £80 but if I buy from there to Shrewsbury,then there to cwmbran then Newport it's only £64.Doesn't change anything about my journey,can buy all the tickets together and don't need to change seats or trains yet save myself enough for tea.
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    Iain LoveIain Love ✭✭✭
    Evening folks..
    Went out for my belated recovery run yesterday evening with the club.. it was a 20 min easy out and chase back with the aim to run a negative split. I got to 2.61 miles on the out and turned around and got back in 16:28. Felt good but realised it probably wasn’t wise cause my quads ached pretty badly after.. 
    Day off today so I managed to get into the pool and swam for an hour. Starting to get used to swimming on tired arms and realised that the tiredness doesn’t last too long..

    My next 2 events are the Phoenix silver and gold on the 1st and 2nd June.. the silver is a 6hr timed event and the gold is a straight marathon. I’m hoping I can 50k the silver and run as close to 3 hrs on the gold but if I’m too sore on the Sunday I’ll ease off a bit..
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    Evening all, have been keeping an eye here recently while on my slow but steady return to running and good to see that there are still some active threads on the forum. 
    Hoping to keep up to date with all the goings on, time for a bit more of a read back. :)
    Shades- I saw you mention the Connemara marathon recently, have you ran this before? It is my plan to run this as my first marathon and big goal for the next year. 
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    Steve thanks for the link and may pop in to watch the stream, its an interesting concept from Hoka and similar to Nike's % shoes however don;t think they'll have the success that Nike has, as an Ultra runner I'd never consider speed but more about comfort and protection. 

    We were having a debate on our clubs facebook page the other day about club records above marathon distance.  I said as an ultra runner I have no intention of running a fast 50 miler but will compare myself with club members who have raced in similar conditions and also against the field.

    Ian, train fares are a nightmare and a rip off, if websites such as  https://new.trainsplit.com/ where it will give you the best fare can do it then the rail operators should.  I saved myself fortunes doing my own thing when I was going to NDW to recce the course last year as was running point to point.

    Iain hope the doms aren't too bad, I suffer really bad most of the time too.  50km and then a sub 3 will be impressive stuff in June, You're a machine.

    G&G Connemara will be an awesome experience as a 1st! Will be one I'd love to have a crack at but think I've got enough planed for next year in April.

    Currently on a mission of adulting, buying my 1st car.  After 2 months searching managed to get a few £££ (no running has helped) I went to buy my first car, and the bloke sold it before I went to view grrrr!!!! Am 2nd in line for one tomorrow, I was offered to see it 1st as had dealing with him with elle's car, but did't want to be unfair on someone else thats going to view tomorrow.
     
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    Has anyone seen any numbers published for the ballot? I’m hoping that doing it straight after the race will catch people off guard! 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2019
    Ian - that saving will get you a very good meal for tonight.  Sounds a nightmare trying to master the rail system for the best deal.

    Iain - I've put your next events on the list.   Delaying the recovery run only delays the soreness and recovery but at least its done now.   Good to hear you're making progress with the swimming.

    G & G - great to know your running is going well.   Although Connemara isn't the easiest of races a lot of runners choose it as their first marathon as it's such a great event so a good choice for your debut.  Have you entered?  There's a €10 early bird discount until the end of May
    .
    I've done the marathon 3 times, the invitational marathon 3 times and the ultra 5 times.   

    Robert - good luck, hope you get that car today.

    I'm not sure what you mean about the ballot but I expect they'll have a record entry again.   I had the tracker on my phone and got a message during the race to say the ballot had opened and then it was sent to me again which was annoying for me.   App is deleted now but I expect it would have reminded me all week.


    Rest day for me today, marathon tomorrow :) 

    Good luck to all racing this weekend.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Robert, haven’t seen any numbers for this year. I’m a member of an online running club (Lonely Goat) where there’s been a lot of anger about that 7.5hr issue and talk of boycotting. I put up a post with a different view (suggesting firm cut offs)and although some vehemently disagreed, I think most agreed that the race will still be oversubscribed!

    Intereting page for the stats lovers relating to London is here.
    https://run247.com/running-features/iconic-races/did-cooler-weather-lead-to-faster-times-at-london
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - if you mean by firm cut offs, pulling runners off the course, I don't think they can't do that.   

    This is a problem of London's own making.  They've in the past celebrated a man in a diving suit, a former boxer with brain injuries, a lady that can't walk unaided, all taking days to finish the event and raise 000's of pounds for charity, and that's what London marathon is all about.  So if a non-runner has seen that in the past, why would they think they can't walk round in 7 or 8 hours and expect to be treated well and raise money for charity at the same time.

    Does anyone know why the wave starts were delayed?  The last wave were 16 minutes late starting. That delay not being notified to the clean up teams is shameful.

    I think London just let too many entrants into the event now.   I've seen quite a few moans about congestion on the course.
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