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Shades Marathon Training

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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-I stopped looking at fetch when I got my Polar as it looked complicated to move it across,just looked again and it looks easier now,so have linked it up again.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - Strava are a profit making company, they say they're not profitable at the moment, there's a big difference between that and a non profit making company.   

    They cover their costs by advertising and selling their data files but I suppose right now, nobody want to pay for that data and advertising is probably the last thing for a lot of companies right now.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    I've just heard that Dublin Marathon (end Oct) has been cancelled, entries deferred to next year, I haven't entered.   Not good news for any hope of big events going ahead.   Ireland were down to 4 deaths yesterday from Covid 19 so not as if they weren't making good progress in controlling the spread.

    I am expecting Connemara to be cancelled too, smaller event but can't see how they can get us to the start observing social distancing.


    Rumour now that because there is concern about a second wave hitting European health services in the winter that there will be no races at all, maybe for another 12 months we'll see.  :'(


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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-That's bad news,I was hoping there might be some races in Ireland with there being no quarantine between us.Wonder if when they start again they will restrict it to participants from the same country so as to minimise the risk of importing it.

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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - yes, as that looks to be unlikely that returning from France would avoid any quarantine now.    Ireland is different as there is set in stone a freedom of movement between Republic of Ireland and UK so quarantine would be highly unlikely.   But Dublin marathon has a huge entry from Irish runners alone and if they could have organised the event for home runners only they would.   Their website says that the event couldn't be organised with social distancing etc being viable.

    I had a look at the weekend but many of the Irish races are not even putting up their 2021 dates, I'm still trying to find an event to transfer my Aer Lingus flight to.    There's a great marathon in Clonakilty at the end of November https://runclon.ie/  and I considered switching my flights to that but it has an entry of about 2,000 (that might be all events) so might not go ahead.   I got as far as looking at the entry but that's done by bloody Active so I gave up.   I do know the organisers so could arrange entry by PayPal but as things are I just thought I'd leave it for now.

    Marathon Club Ireland is a good source of marathons usually but they've removed all listings while the pandemic is here.
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Big G - I also mainly use Strava to snoop around what other folks are doing. I do find the endless cycle of liking other people’s runs tiresome though. As in, someone likes your run so you feel obligated to like theirs and vice versa till the end of time :)

    I do like their training log page though as clearer and quicker than my Garmin connect/Runkeeper to track weekly mileage and progress with the bubbles. Are they keeping that FOC?

    Shades - I saw the news re Dublin and that they were deferring everyone’s entries automatically to 2021. It made me think that it’s strange that Brighton which is meant to be end of September and therefore no doubt will be cancelled, are already selling places for next year so presumably automatic deferral won’t be an option when they do cancel. I have bought my place for next year on the early discount anyway but seems a bit gutting for those who haven’t. 

    Will go out for usual 7 miles this evening as too busy with work this morning. 
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    Cozy1504Cozy1504 ✭✭✭
    Stirling Marathon which was in October has also been moved to May next year, don't know if that's already been discussed.

    I think I'm seeing it through to the end this time, I know most people think it's not a great idea, but I'm fund raising for my friend who has MND, I would like him to benefit from the fundraising as soon as possible. So I think I'm running 26.2 miles on 5th September one way or another, understanding that it won't be the same but it's what I want to do.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades/Ian, shame abut the Irish races :(  

    Cozy, a couple of club mates did a solo marathon on the day of the London Marathon, so if you feel that's what you want to do, go for it.  As you say, it won't be the same as race day, but maybe it'll help having something to work towards too?

    Rcouture, having had a closer look, one of the features that used to be free but is now part of the subscription is "Training Log on Android and strava.com", so it'll be interesting to see what happens there.  One of the reports said that the changes are taking place immediately, but my Strava still has these features so I can't tell any difference as yet.  I have to say, Training Log is one of the things I use a lot on Strava too...
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - Brighton have always been highly motivated by money, very expensive marathon.   Bit of a cheek really taking entries for next year when this year hasn't happened and may not do so either.  Well if it's cancelled this year you should get a full refund but you might want to check their T & C.

    Cozy - I saw that about Stirling, it used to be the end of April.  Might be a good option for you as might be a little cooler than the end of May when Edinburgh is on.

    As you're raising money for your friend I can understand that you don't want to delay running a marathon and more importantly raising the funds.   Such a good reason you should be able to get a bit more publicity and funds.   By then you should be able to run where you want, I'm not sure what restrictions you have in Scotland re exercise right now.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Cozy-Good idea to do the run yourself,hopefully by then people will be allowed to support you on it.
    Big G-I read somewhere it was going to take 24hrs to implement all the changes,they can get rid of the flybys if they want,it never works properly.
    12 miles or so today,felt ok after resting yesterday,but happy with it after the 20 on Sunday.
    Got a feeling to do some long long runs myself if there are no races on the horizon,just need to work out some logistics.
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Big G - Yes the log is still available for me too. As you say, I wouldn’t pay 7 quid a month or whatever it is just for that though. 

    7 miles on usual route which was an interesting experience. Felt great despite the heat but could not keep my HR down at all. I thought it was just the temp but then ran through the common which is wooded and shaded and quite cool and HR was still going wild. At that point I realised that it was because I was listening to music rather than my usual podcast/nothing as my OH had recommended something to me before going out. Turned it off and immediately went down by 5bpm or so. Weird as it wasn’t particular upbeat stuff! Run was super slow and 2bpm above tgt but will chalk it off and move on. 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - so far it's only Dublin that have cancelled.

    Response from Connemara today

    https://www.connemarathon.com/

    I think Donegal Wild Atlantic marathon are not intending to cancel either, don't think they have buses to deal with.  On my wish list.  Now scheduled for 25th October.

    Rcouture - it's not unusual that listening to music raises the HR, as the brain sort of switches off and easy to get carried away.   :)
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Went out and did 6 this afternoon - and for 2 miles or so in the middle it's the best running I've done so far to HR.  I won't mention min/miles as they were down hill, but it felt great!  At one point on this downhill stretch I was even struggling to get my HR up to the 132-142 range for a short while.  At this point I was strongly thinking I had an equipment issue, but I stopped quickly and manually checked my pulse and it measured 120 (I was probably stood still for 15secs).  Couldn't believe it really.  I don't know why one day I struggle a bit but on another day I'm flying along (comparatively), but it was a great run out this afternoon.

    On the HR monitors, I presume it's obvious when the battery needs replacing?  Mine today had a connection with the watch at all times (as it always does) and as far as I'm aware there are no issues with the battery, but just wondering.  I just googled it and there was some advice to say they last 18 months but I don't think my watch shows if the monitor battery is getting flat.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - great run this afternoon.  It just shows how HR drops when going downhill!

    Re battery, my previous monitors the battery would last for years and I'd only know to change them when I'd do a run and although it picked up a reading it didn't alter when it should have while I was running.

    However, the monitor I have now, had it since Loch Ness, I've already replaced the battery twice.   With this one when the battery has gone it just doesn't pick up the connection when I turn on the watch to start my run.  Never had one that showed the state of the monitor battery.  Just make sure you have a spare battery at home, that's why I had to go to Poundland last week. 

    If you run up a hill or speed up and the monitor doesn't respond accordingly then new battery required, but I expect yours will be the same as mine and just not connect.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, thanks for that.  I do have some spare batteries here.  I think I changed the battery last August when I did my MAF test then.  I'm sure it's fine as it connects to the more or less instantly and never loses signal to the watch when I'm running.

    I was planning to do 7-miles this morning and I was up early for me.  Whilst having a coffee I glanced out the window and could see that the sea was calm, and the chap's flag across the road was totally still.  So I decided on an impromptu MAF test.  I wasn't sure if it was a good idea as I'd done 16 miles yesterday, but I donned my "fast" trainers and a Trotters vest and went out.

    1-mile warm up, including strides, and HR got up to 160ish briefly, and then onto the test.

    Today's splits were 08:50, 08:46, 09:05, 09:14, 09:26, total time 45:21.

    18/4 the splits were 09:07, 09:09, 09:19, 09:31, 09:47, total time 46:53, meaning today was 90-secs quicker.

    Obviously delighted with that, especially after yesterday's 16 miler, and it is marginally better than when I did the test back in August last year.

    Shades, I noted your comment about the 2nd mile shouldn't be quicker and points towards not warming up properly, but apart from that I'm happy with the above.  I did feel I had warmed up but maybe there's some more I can do there, although I had a slight sweat on at the start so unsure.  Not sure whether to change it or not going forward - what do you think?

    Anyway, glad I did the test as it's motivating seeing the improvement.  Slight concern that I may have "forgotten" how to run fast, but I'll probably cross that bridge later in June :D 
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    6 miles for me today, nice quiet morning, seems less traffic today.

    But yesterday afternoon I had to go down town for a bit of shopping and there was a significant amount of traffic compared to last week, I even had to use the pelican crossing to get across the road.   But the shops were quieter so that was a bonus.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - xpost.   That's a great result and I think doing the MAF test when you 'feel' the moment is right is the best thing to do.

    The bit about the 2nd mile shouldn't be faster was what Maffetone said in his book.  But when I do an ILTHR I will often run a faster mile for the 3rd or 4th mile and in a lot of my BT runs my fastest mile is mile 5.   IMHO you settle into the HR and run more efficiently when you get into the zone.  It's also easy to overcook things in the first mile and then waste a bit of time/pace having to get back into zone.   So I disagree with Maffetone on that point.

    Anyway fab test results, it won't be long before all 5 miles will be sub 9.   And you didn't need a rest day prior to the test, shows how your recovery is improving too.

    HR training can be very frustrating but also the most rewarding.
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Morning folks! I didn't sleep well and ended up getting up around 4:20am, so I was out running at 5:30. I decided to go find the bit of the Wandle I'd missed before, and I succeeded, so hooray for that. (It's certainly nicer than running past the industrial state which is what happened on Sunday when I went the wrong way).
    I decided to continue up the Wandle and did much of Sunday's route, minus the extra bit on the end, so it was 12 miles all told.
    It was a very pleasant run until I got to the road that cuts through Mitcham Common - it was a bit after 7am by that point and there was quite a lot of traffic. I did manage to cross the roads I needed to without having to stop but I think I'll avoid it on weekedays in future.
    Legs felt pretty good aside from a bit of grumbling from the high ham tendon (not sure if this is down to last week's mileage or the fact I've been doing yoga every day) but it's not to serious.
    I did a sub-10 coming up the big hill (Church Lane) from Tooting - there was a woman in a blue shirt running just ahead so I tried to catch her. Didn't manage it but at least I didn't fall any further behind.
    Lost a couple of pounds on this run so will be hydrating a lot today - it's going to be a hot one.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes, it is funny how it goes.  I'm convinced that if I'd done this test 3 or 4 days ago the result would have been worse.  I know I obviously haven't improved in 3 or 4 days, but some days I have a good run and others not so good, for no obvious reason.  I suppose it just reiterates that it's a long term plan and for me I need to expect fluctuations/plateaus.  I think I'll stick with my current warm up on future sessions then because I do feel that it's about right.  If at some point I can get them all below 9s, that would be really, really encouraging.  Also if I can run more of that Torbay Half hill, that would be a massive thing as I'm nowhere near it at the moment.  Can I ask - do you think you'd be able to run that Torbay Half hill at your training heart rate?  I'm just trying to work out if it's a realistic goal?  It's not steep especially, but it is quite long - it starts off shallow but gets steeper towards the top.  I reckon at the moment I'm lucky if I can run 50m of it before having to walk.  It's not that I mind walking as I'm in the mindset now, but I'm just trying to understand if it's a realistic goal to be able to run it at that HR.

    Well done Cal, glad you're back running some decent mileage again after your illness the other week.  That must be encouraging.  
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - another good run from you.   I take it your ultra is not going ahead in June, have they moved the date to later in the year?


    Big G - Yes, you have to have faith and look at the overall trend not just one or two days as it's surprising how different a run can be from one day to the next with no apparent reason.

    I would stick with your current warm up, the more consistent you are with the MAF test then the more meaningful the results are.  

    It is years since I ran Torbay Half and I never train or drive along that road so to be honest I can't remember the undulations well enough to answer your question.    But there are days when I can really control my HR going up a hill quite easily and there are days when it's much harder, I just have to slow down on those days.

    You will in time be able to run all of that hill at your training HR, just maybe not right now ;)   
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    No it's cancelled. I'll be surprised if anything goes ahead this year - maybe some of the small events (Phoenix, Enigma etc) will but no major races.
    UTMB is cancelled...and Dublin Marathon which wasn't until October. It's not looking too hopeful.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - I expect UTMB is primarily cancelled as a lot of the entrants travel from other countries.

    I'm not even sure with some of the smaller events as many of the paths are not wide enough for social distancing and also open to the public.  

    I was the one that posted on here yesterday about Dublin   ;)

    Cork are meeting next week and will make an announcement then.   I'd say unlikely to go ahead as it was scheduled for first weekend in September,  a good marathon, hope to go back and do it again sometime.
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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    The Strava changes have come through to me now.  The Training Log has gone (which was basically just a weekly view of activities), but I can still see all my activities in a list, so I think that's fine for what I need.  When I click on an individual activity I can still see my HR, pace details and mile splits so no issue there either.  The useful compare efforts feature has gone but in terms of my MAF tests and details related to my other regular routes, I have that info in my own spreadsheet anyway, plus a lot of other details.  I never used the Route Planner as I use a different app for that, to put new routes on my watch if I want to. I never really got into the segment feature anyway, so I think for now I'll stick with the free version to see how I get on.  I can always upgrade at a later date if I want to.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - the loss of the comparison of previous efforts might not go down well with those that don't have a spreadsheet.

    Always seems a bit mean to now charge for a facility that was previously free.


    I see London marathon have issued a statement, I suppose in response to the cancellation of Dublin.   It says nothing of substance except there will be a further update on 21st June.


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    Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes, it does seem mean.  The thing with Strava is that it is the leader because it handles virtually all watch manufacturers.  Garmin, Polar, fitbit, etc etc etc, so it doesn't matter what watch you have.  I think that's its main selling feature really, so from a social point of view a large amount of runners are there as it brings them all together.  It'll be interesting if it remains as popular with people who don't want to pay.  I think it will actually.

    I did 4 miles at 5:30pm - quite hot out but just took it really steady at around 133bpm.
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    Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-The compare is the biggest loss,OH got a new PB on a segment today and I tried to show her her improvement but I couldn't.
    9 miles after work,very hot but a very good run,felt really easy and controlled and came out very fast.
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    RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Nice running all
    Big G - Not having the log is unfortunate. I imagine I’ll mainly be using Runkeeper for tracking as it’s pretty straightforward. 
    7 miles this eve on usual route which felt great and was fastest by a couple secs per mile. Makes up for yesterday’s sweaty fiasco in the midday heat. Also surprising as it was after 12 hours of work and my better HR runs have been in the morning. Who knows. 
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    Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Well done on your warm runs, guys.
    Didn't sleep particularly well again so out once more at 5:30am for hills. Two miles warm-up (11 min/mi) pace to Streatham Common, then five one mile laps of the main part of the common. Pushed hard up the hill, recovered across the top, relaxed down the hill and then steady pace along the bottom. Those miles were 9:59/9:56/9:44/9:44/9:29 which I'm pleased with, although I got some concerned looks off a few people I passed on the uphill due to the fact my breathing sounded like someone in the midst of a severe asthma attack. Quite enjoyed it though and found my breathing recovered quickly on the top section, which isn't very wide (that part of the common is almost a triangle - or a thin pear).
    Two miles home again, just over 10 pace this time. Legs felt quite snappy and energetic on the way back.
    Tomorrow would normally be a rest day but I'm experimenting with bumping my runs up to six this week so it'll be a recovery run instead.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - it also throws down a challenge to other companies to ramp up the marketing on their free training log websites.

    You're certaily following government guidelines that you can exercise more than once a day ;)   I guess you're aiming at a record high mileage week?

    Ian - it's ironic really, the one feature that will be missed most is probably the one that damages/holds back their training.   Except for a speed session or a hill climb, encouraging others to beat/win segments even if it's only against the runner/cyclist themselves is not necessarily good training and for most will stop their development as they'd be training too fast. 

    You'd better set OH up with a spreadsheet :) 

    Rcouture - HR training is full of surprises, most of them good ones, you're doing well.


    8 miles this morning, sunny and cool.   We do need rain.
    I used my car yesterday, it's covered in dust and cobwebs, it's too dusty to wash it without some decent rain first.
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    SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - sorry xpost, I wandered off to get another coffee.   That's a good hill session.
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