Shades Marathon Training

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  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - that's good it was easy to get the bladder replacement, I suppose they perish over time.

    Ian - I guess we're all better with a routine/plan.    I always have my mileage planned for the week otherwise I'd probably do more shorter runs, not that I always stick to the plan but it's there as a guide.

    Big G - I knew you'd go out again for another run!!   Next time check your mileage before your final morning run of the week and adding on 0.7 wouldn't have been so bad ;) 

    I'm sure you'll have plenty opportunity to do high mileage weeks,  if you want to of course.

    Re fluids for your running, I know as yet we haven't had the really hot and humid weather, but you've probably already noticed that you don't get as warm/sweaty and dehydrated with base training as you're running at a lower intensity than usual.   That's why I have to wear more kit in the winter as I don't get so warm.     Running with a 2 litre camelbak is probably the equivalent of 3 pounds of dead weight (like fat) but then you drink the fluid as you run, don't think you would notice any different in HR.   Would you normally take 2 litres of fluid with you for a long run?

    8 miles this morning, back to light winter kit as it was only 7 degrees when I went out.   Lovely fresh morning.   I startled a pheasant in a very narrow road and he tried to fly over the hedge but the tree was too high for him and he ended up back on the road in front of me.   He then panicked and started screeching and then ran in a couple of circles and then ran away from me as fast as he could, really funny as he was running just like the road runner cartoon and his little legs were going like windmills.

    There was a big fire just round the corner from where I live yesterday.  It's a children's nursery in a beautiful old house and the owners live in the next house, it's semi detached.   So I ran back that way, awful to see such a lovely building damaged, nobody was hurt and all the animals saved, I believe they have miniature donkeys there.    There's still a little smoke from the smouldering roof, the fire brigade are still there.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, usually if I take a bottle it'd be a 750ml one, and I add electrolytes if it's hot.  But I haven't taken one with me for some time as I don't really need one for 10-miles or so, although I'll keep it in mind for when the weather warms up.  I do take a 2L Camelbak on on City to Sea, partly to save faffing at the aid stations.  Plus at City to Sea some kind of water carrier is part of the kit list.  Also, on those long coastal run/walks I did last year I took a 2L Camelbak, and did need that on those hot days out.  In fact when it was hot last summer I had to fill it up too, and a kind takeaway place filled it up for me.  Maybe I was just having a bad day at last year's City to Sea...I was really sure I'd be able to get a decent time on that course but struggled from 13 miles that day and in my mind partly blamed the Camelbak - in the end I didn't get a course PB even though conditions were perfect.

    Pheasants are funny, and also stupid!

    Shame about that place and the fire, I did see some pics.  There seem to have been a few local fires recently :(  

    Yes, if I'd planned it better and ended on 80.00 after the morning run, I doubt I'd have done out again in the afternoon!

    Rest day today, although I do feel fresh enough to run.  But a rest day will do me no harm, and then hopefully I'll have a decent week again this week.  60ish is the plan again all being well.

    Spent some time looking over the Maffetone book yesterday and also some other YouTube videos.  It's not a concern for me at the moment but looking ahead to end of June or July I think I may want to do a small amount of speed work, partly to make sure I still can!  I'm not exactly sure what I'll do yet.  I was initially thinking of just doing a 5k hard, maybe once a week.  Or maybe I should do 5x1k efforts, again no more than once a week.  Or maybe a mixture.  Unlike Cal, I think I'd probably find 5k on my own very difficult to get up to and maintain a decent pace.  I also know from the past that if I do shorter reps of 200m or 400m I can be susceptible to injury so don't really want to go for shorter reps.  Not sure at the moment, but if anyone has any thoughts it'd be great to read them.  One thing is that I want to keep it simple as otherwise I know I won't do it!  It won't be for a few weeks yet anyway, but I'm just looking ahead.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - yes, I can understand you taking 2 litres at C2S.   Is that event still going ahead this year (for now)?

    There was a big fire in Kingsteignton a couple of days ago, I think the big old property along from the Bell Inn next to the mews/town houses.


    You must be pleased that you don't feel knackered today, enjoy your rest day, you've earned it.

    I think the Maffetone book is a bit light in actual training method once you've done the base section, don't you?   Although I do need to read the racing section there might be more stuff in there on race preparation/speedwork.
    You could always try his intervals, either the downhill ones or the intervals where you run at the low end of your MAF HR and intervals up to the higher end of your MAF HR.   I think by the time you get to the end of July you'd find that quite interesting.   I think as long as you're not fed up of HR training then you should do your speedwork with HR too, going to suddenly running fast might not be a good idea.   Tempo runs at say 150 bpm might be a good start?
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    That house fire from yesterday, I just found out that I know the owners.  She used to be in my running club and I ran London marathon with her, last time I did London.   They are now homeless but nobody was hurt and the donkeys and pigs are all fine.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes, City to Sea currently still on, but similar to Connemarathon I'm not sure about logistics as I think a large percentage of the competitors take the coaches from Torquay to Exeter, and then run back.  There were a couple of fires in Torquay as well I think.

    Yes, the book does seem a bit light on what to do after the base training, but I also haven't read it all yet.  I'll have a further think about what to do regarding sessions then.  I wonder if 150bpm may still feel quite slow?  But there are a couple of fairly long shallow hills I could run up and down as a form of interval training too, which I think I'd enjoy.  I'll have a think about it, but for a few more weeks it'll all be at 142 or below anyway so no immediate hurry.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - in 2 months time you'll be running a lot faster at your MAF rate, you should be doing your runs at the lower end of MAF HR faster than you run now at the top end of your MAF rate.   With HR training you don't go into fast speed training you build up gradually as you're trying to push your lactate threshold higher that's by doing faster runs at slightly higher HR's, then you become faster and more efficient at that HR and then you crank it up a bit more.  You can use your hills as intervals, I like doing that as it's no set distance and every run is different.

    If there's nothing of substance in his book why not pick up from doing the ILTHR from Hadd's method, you'll easily be at 10 miles with no cardiac drift by the end of July.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Shades - That’s really sad re the fire. At least no one was hurt

    Big G - I have also been wondering re when to start faster stuff but have come to the conclusion that I won’t bother until either a marathon is confirmed/I stop progressing with the low HR. 

    7 miles yesterday which takes me to 40 miles for the week. Taking a rest day today even though I feel fine as I’ve been running 3 days in a row which I’m not even sure I’ve ever done. Also getting the barbecue out 😀

    Just wondering if I’m best served by increasing my mileage now by upping my usual 7 mile route or just by increasing my weekend long run (which I’m currently doing more like every other week)? I’m hesitant to change the usual 7 miler as that’s been exactly the same route since I started HR so gives me a consistent gauge of progress.  


  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - I know you're fond of your 7 mile route but I would suggest that you run a variety of routes and not just stick to the same one all the time.   Start introducing some gentle undulations if you can.  HR data is also dependent on heat/humidity/windy conditions so sticking to the same route all the time isn't necessary, although useful, for a comparison now and then if conditions are the same. 

    Re extending the long run, that's entirely up to you, a little extra every other week is a good idea

    Well done on your 40mpw, especially as you don't feel tired, that alone is a sign of good progress.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    10 miles before work today,weather was back to amazing,even yesterday we had 20mph winds but not a breeze today and sun shining.
    I'm another thinking about adding speed work in,but as I've never really done it I probably won't bother,maybe a few runs at MP over the next few weeks,I'm thinking of splitting my long run for a couple of weeks and doing a double instead,just to alter the stimulus in the body,then back to a long run each week.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    edited May 25
    Rcouture, I'd agree it may be good to mix it up a bit.  That chap on that YouTube video said he had a few different routes and I know Shades does, so I've created a sheet that tracks a few things across those routes.  Humidity, weather details (from an app), HR, beats per mile, pace, time of day, etc.  Then I can filter my sheet on that run to see if there is any progress (or lack of).  On one of my routes I also have a fast mile downhill, so I'm tracking that as well.


  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - I was always told the best speedwork for marathon runners is mile reps and they're not too bad to do.  Speed roughly between 5 and 10k and you can do them at any part of a run after you've warmed up, recovery can be back to a certain HR or half or a full mile.  They recreate digging deep at certain parts of a race.

    Big G - nice spreadsheet, slightly more nerdy than mine.  ;)

    I have mine split into weeks and the total for each week transferred to a summary sheet, with extra columns for average pace and HR over the previous 4 weeks.   Then more columns with average pace and mileage over the previous 16 weeks with a calculator predicting marathon time.

    I'll get my anorak...

    As we are coming out of lockdown I've just ordered a new gym bag, also another pair of running shoes, there's still space on the new shoe tidy.   ;)
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-If you run the same regular route,have you ever tried running it the other way round,it is really confusing.
    Big G-Love the spreadsheet,I'd love to do stuff like that but I know I'd do it for a day or 2 then stop,I dont even keep up with my plan.
    Shades-Mile repeats sound tough,think I'd prefer a consistent 5 or 6 mile tempo effort,its the changing of pace I struggle with.
  • Anyone interested in Fetch he is doing some zoom sessions covering what the site does. Link here to details and sign up  https://www.fetcheveryone.com/zoom
    In news from me er soreish hamstring and def sore hip from yesterdays speedy run.... I shall give it a few weeks before repeating i think

  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - mile reps IMHO much more pleasant than a tempo run.

    Keith - yes, I had the invite from Fetch for Mr Fetch to do a presentation to my club on Zoom.

    Not another injury  :'(
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Bad news Keith.  Fingers crossed it's better soon!

    Ian, I know what you mean - running it the other way around makes it seem like a very different route.  Kind of recognisable, but also very different!  Regarding my sheet, I'm a spreadsheet/stats geek, so I can't help it I'm afraid :sunglasses:  

    Shades, some good tracking there on your spreadsheet too :D  

    As for me, I've just had a really relaxing day pottering about in the garden (not doing too much heavy lifting at all), and sparked up the pizza oven.  I was very much thinking I wanted to go for a run but decided against it, so I'm hoping/expecting I'll be really raring to go tomorrow morning.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited May 25
    Shades/Ian - Makes sense, I will try and throw in a few more routes though the usual 7miler will still make up the bulk of my mileage. 

    Big G - That’s an awesome spreadie but given I’ve got my head buried in excel for much of my working day, I’m not sure I’ve the heart to set one up for running beyond the data I get from Strava/Garmin (Watch me change my mind in a couple weeks’ time 😀). 

    Lovely rest day including bbq trying out a new smoker I got for my birthday and listening to the rubbish coming from this Cummings nonsense. Had very small hope for some guidance on large gatherings but seems we will have to wait. 
  • Nah hamstring is a common enough issue over the years just need to avoid faster stuff for a while. I need to be at better fitness and doing faster stuff more often to avoid it. That and its downhill fast which never helps. Hip will be fine too just annoying.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Rcouture, when I was working I was up to my eyes in spreadsheets.  I was a software developer initially so had loads with macros in to track and manipulate "stuff", and then later a Project Manager where I had spreadsheets coming out of my ears - risks, issues, project plans, burn down charts, status reports.  I shudder to think now; I reckon for at least 50% of my time at work, I was staring at or maintaining a blasted spreadsheet.  Even now for my running club, I have a complicated spreadsheet as I look after our Club Championships which has a lot of macros behind it work everything out.  And as for my life - well, there's a spreadsheet for that too ;)  

    Didn't sleep great unfortunately.  Not sure why really, but my energy from yesterday seems to have dissipated some what!  I'm just gulping down a couple of coffees that will hopefully perk me up, but I'm not really sure if they do anything any more!  I just happened to have a look at my phone app though and I've not had an alcoholic drink for 876 days!  It'll soon be 1000 days and I've probably saved a few thousand from that I reckon.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - you'll maybe set up a little spreadsheet once we're back racing and you start thinking about marathons especially after you've done a couple. :) 

    I use Garmin Connect but once I've picked up the data I rarely look back at any data on there, but I spend hours poring over my spreadsheet 🤓

    I think we'll have a long wait sadly about coming out of lockdown and future events.    I expect EA/UKA will make their next announcement mid June and London are also going to provide an 'update' then, as are Manchester I believe.  So that will maybe give us some meaningful news re autumn races.

    Keith - avoid the faster stuff for now then, it hurts.

    Big G - congrats on the 876 days but you writing that does make it sound like you were a raving alcoholic.  I guess all that money you've saved goes towards your marathon races now.

    I no longer drink alcohol but I found if I tell people that they peer into my face looking for signs of overindulgence so I don't say anything now.   I didn't drink much anyway only the odd social drink.   It must be nearly 3 years for me, I never made a note as I would sometimes not drink for weeks anyway.

    How are getting on with Lufthansa refund?   I had a generic email yesterday now saying that flights can be transferred up to Dec 2021 which is what I wanted originally.   But I cancelled the flight a few days ago and am waiting for the refund, which will be a while I think.

    8 miles today, flat route.   Another cool fresh morning.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    This is an update from Connemarathon which I'm hoping to be my major race this year....

    We plan on giving a weekly update on the event due to take place on 27th September and following today’s meeting we have decided to suspend entries for the moment. The reality is that we can’t guarantee that the event will take place in September. But there is also no guarantee that it can’t take place.

    If things remain as they are with a requirement for 2m social distancing then the event will not happen. However, with still over 4 months to go and the number of new cases regularly under 100 per day in the last week, we feel that it is too early to cancel and hope that the government may accelerate the progression through the different phases that have been set out.

    We are monitoring the situation on a daily basis and will follow whatever guidelines are issued by the government, and if the event can go ahead we will implement all safety measures as required. We also look forward to input from Athletics Ireland.

    If you would like to defer your 27th September 2020 entry to 18th April 2021 free of charge then please email [email protected]

    We will issue another update on Monday 1st June.


    It's good they're doing an update every week.   But doesn't look too hopeful and Ireland appear to have the virus well under control, no deaths yesterday and only 59 new cases, they are doing extensive testing.


  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ha ha, no I wasn't an alcoholic.  I just swiped right on my phone to check the weather and there's an app there that shows the days as well.  It's just normal now, but at day 1 I wasn't sure where it was going to lead.  It's a big change in my lifestyle really.  Can't say fairer than that Shades, regarding Connemarathon.  As you say, probably not too hopeful but sounds like they're being sensible/pragmatic.

    Anyway, 7.5 miles this morning.  After feeling a bit groggy first thing, I decided to take it really steady and averaged 133bpm for the run.  One of those ones where I genuinely feel better after the run that before it!
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I know you weren't an alcoholic, it's just when you mention the days....to those that don't know you might jump to conclusion that you could have been.

    That's a good run, glad you feel better for it.


    Did you see my question about Lufthansa?
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Good they are updating regularly,hopefully they will ease a bit by then,how many do those races?
    I am hoping to run a double tomorrow as I have to work all weekend,this is instead of my long run for a couple of weeks,how far do you reckon it is ok to do? I'm thinking a 10 and 12 miler as these don't seem to take too much out of me or do you think it is too much?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, I haven’t actually requested the refund yet. I think I’ll wait and see if I can transfer my race entry to next year, and if I can I’ll transfer the flights too I think. I do want to do that race from yours and Ian’s reports of it.  I didn’t receive an email yesterday though so I’ll have a look in the site later. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - I think it's about 3,000 over the 3 distances, all have different start locations.   But the difficulty is that we have to be bussed to the start from Galway and back again after the race.

    A 10 and 12 in the same day?  I think you'd be fine, just rehydrate well for 2nd run as that will more likely be in the hotter part of the day.

    Big G - yes, that's what I wanted to do, transfer to 2021 date but I didn't want a voucher.   But when I looked there were no flights from Bristol for next year, but in view of yesterday's email they may be launching the timetable for next year early, I don't know.

    I'll forward you the email.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Fingers crossed, Shades!
    Keith - hope it's nothing bad.
    Big G - congrats on your milestone. Not been sleeping well either though I managed 7 hours last night, which is the most I've had in ages.

    Rest yesterday but did a 5.75 miles walk to scope out a new route. It's Norwood Grove which joins onto Streatham Common, but it is fenced around so not sure it'll be open when I run as I'm an early bird. It's just as hilly as the main common if not more so, so will be good for some hill work.
    9 miles this morning. Can feel my achilles again which isn't grand - better get on top of my strength work.
  • 1SteveMac1SteveMac ✭✭✭
    Big G - Nice spreadsheet! Superb weekly miles too.
    Ian - the cut back in mileage will do you good in the long term.
    Shades - Mile reps are tough!!

    Anyway, 14m and 5m on Sat/Sun for me, keeping HR below 125. That was about 42 miles for the week. 10m today too.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    12 miles today,it was meant to be cloudy but seemed pretty warm out.
    Took it a little bit slower as I want to run twice tomorrow,but it was still a nice pace and effort in the weather.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - seems like you're planning a big mileage week  :)

    Steve - are you enjoying the easy running and lack of speedwork, must be quite a change for you.

    Cal - I've not been sleeping well either so now get up at 4 a.m., doing that I'm finding I get 6 hours of decent sleep and if necessary I can take a 30 minutes nap post lunch.

    That's a lot of walking you did yesterday, do you think that's what has niggled your achilles?


    I survived Tesco this afternoon, haven't been there for months but I had a voucher to use.   Hot here today, 26 degrees so put sun cream on in case I had to queue for a while.   But walked straight in, store was pleasantly cool and not busy, it was almost like pre Covid shopping.  Parked my car in the shade of a leafy tree, kept my car cool but there must have been a giant pigeon sitting in the tree and it crapped on my car while I was shopping.   :#
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Went out and did 6 late afternoon. I was up for it to begin with and as it was warm I was planning a gentle effort, but in the end I didn’t have the best of runs as ankles/calves on both legs were a bit sore. Fingers crossed all ok for tomorrow. Is it possible I took it too easy in terms of my gait being a bit short?  Don’t know, but one to forget regardless. 
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