Shades Marathon Training

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  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Robert - I take it that yesterday wasn't a PB at that distance?     And the Andy Memorial race, are you intending to do marathon/ultra or a shorter distance?   I'll be adding October events to the list later this week.

    Re Brighton, for probably 95% of the runners they had a great day and are happy with everything about the race, I've seen lots of compliments about the race and they won't care that there was no permit and most of them not aware or not bothered by a long course.   But it's the GFA runners, I expect they're trying to get RunBritain and/or London to recognise the race times.   I think for anyone using a Brighton time for an overseas GFA time it won't matter and the time would be recognised.   But there could be an issue if London decide to recognise the GFA times, then quite fairly it could be argued that they should recognise ARC race times too, courses are measured by the same accredited course measurers.   There will be those runners that say that they would have run a GFA time had the course not been long, I expect in reality that would be very few runners.

    Big G - £90 off, what does that make the selling price?   :o


    6 miles today, really chilly morning, only 7 degrees when I went out, long sleeved top and full gloves.   Had a lovely run.


  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, they’re £169.95 in the sale.... sportsshoes usually have these two colours for £259.95 although two other colours not on sale are £10 more. 

    5 miles nice and easy today, on the flat. Lovely morning for it. 
  • Robert OHaraRobert OHara ✭✭✭
    edited September 20
    Shades - no pb (9:53 for that).  Will 'just' be the marathon for Andy's run if legs are working.  People like to jump on the back of bad publicity, as you say most had a great day out, done their bucket list, raised the money for charity and sure 100 MC will recognise it as well.  Nice run this morning, I'm getting ready to force myself to the shops just so I'm out walking.  

    Big G - great price for those shoes especially if discount works too, its that time of year where we're all getting ready for black friday deals.  Need to resist the urge to buy stuff I don't need.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Big G-Just had a look as I'm still undecided on my London shoes, but sizes only go to 8.5.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - well that will be a bargain for some runners.    I'd want 2 pairs of shoes for that amount of money.   ;)

    I haven't bought any shoes for months.   I should really pick up a couple of pairs of 1080's while they are at a good price.


    Robert - 100MC will recognise Brighton as runners did the race in good faith (assuming permit/insurance in place).

    A walk will do your legs good, honest.   :'(


    Ian - have you got a start time for London?    I'm assuming they're doing wave starts
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, ah, I hadn't checked the sizes.  Just thought I would quickly post as I saw about it elsewhere.

    Robert, yes, 100MC will recognise it.  If it was a one off short course I think it would be recognised too, as they deem it not to be the fault of the runners.  The long course is annoying but human error when laying out the course presumably, and these things do happen (I did see on one of the groups that the course measurers were robustly defending the measurement saying it was accurately measured and that detailed instructions had been provided).  But I think the lack of permit is unforgivable really, for such a big race.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-It is due by Wednesday, waves between 9 and 11 I think it said.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - I expect you'll be nearer 9 than 11.   Won't make that much difference to you as you're not travelling home that day.


  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    edited September 20
    Shades-No difference at all,if anything I'd prefer a later start,gives me time to warm up my legs.
    How are you feeling for your race this weekend?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, for the list, I am doing New Forest on Saturday.  I only entered it a short while ago hence why it is not on the list.  I am not racing it (it is multi terrain, with only small amounts of tarmac), but treating it as a long weekend in the van as they are providing camping, live music Fri/Sat nights, and OH and Tigg are coming too.  Looking forward to it.  
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - I'll put it on the list with October races on Wednesday, you did mention it before but without a date.  

    I've got you down for 2 in October, Dorney and Newport, is there anything else you haven't told me?    ;)


    Ian - I'm looking forward to Hullavington, rural country roads and a weekend away for me, well a night in a Travelodge.    :)

    You're most likely to be 9ish start at London, I thought you wanted it cooler, which it would be earlier.    You'll just have to get up earlier to warm up the legs.    ;)   You'll probably have a fair walk to your start anyway.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Not sure if I said but I've got Liverpool on the 24th for the list.
    I do want it cooler but hopefully in a other couple of weeks there won't be much difference in the temps.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - yes, I have Liverpool on the list for you.

    Temperature should be fine for racing by the time London comes around, it's just usually a little warmer from lunchtime onwards at this time of year.

  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited September 20
    Robert - Fabulous race report. I especially liked the last pic since I’m also very partial to a beer at the end of a race. 

    Big G- Great time. What do you think is driving the recent jump in form? Mainly time with low HR training or less racing or bit of both?

    Got an email from Royal Parks half (which is my next race) saying they will not be giving out water on the course due to COVID restrictions. They will have a few self service water refill stations which of course if you are going for a time, you’re unlikely to use. I think that’s taking the mickey to be honest as haven’t seen that in any other races. It’s particularly galling when the race isn’t exactly cheap as think it was about 70 quid. Oh and there’s no bag drop on race day either. 

    Will go out for a recovery run later this eve. Legs feel fine post 20 miler yesterday. 


  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-I think companies are making the most of it a bit to increase profits.They could put bottles out on tables if they wanted,no increased covid risk then,if anything the stopping to refill would create a bottleneck and increase risks.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - £70 for a half marathon!!!!!!   I'll have to go and lie down after reading that.  😲

    Re the water that is really taking the pi$$, you pay a race fee to be supplied with water and a bag drop.   Can you sell/transfer your place and find yourself a proper race.  It's so annoying companies using Covid and/or climate change for not providing facilities when what they're actually doing is increasing their company profits.

    However at your pace and in autumn you should/might be able to run without water.   Or you could start carrying a small bottle, say 250ml, and ditch the bottle when you've drunk it, that should be enough for you.

    Ian is right, refill option is less Covid safe than leaving bottles on tables.

    London marathon will have it's usual quota of drink stations, about 20+ so Royal Parks can't even have one.   
  • Shades - Yes it’s a joke. However I got in on a ballot and it’s an ‘event’ race to tick the box, but it will certainly be the last time. Yes I will put a soft 250ml flask in a flip belt, and maybe add some tailwind for a bit of a kick. I don’t tend to require much water in general anyway but if it’s warm it’s nice to be able to at least splash some over you. 
  • Also the no bag drop really seems crazy. They are blaming it on environmental concerns due to the start and finish being in different places this year and therefore don’t want to harm the climate by transporting everything the 1 mile between the two areas 😂. 

    Its mid October though so it implies people will have to arrive in the same gear they run in even if it’s cold/wet. As you can imagine the race logistics aren’t going down well on the internet. 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Rcouture - I really can't see that it's an event to tick the box, it's hyped up with a ballot entry.    It's not a race with a reputation that runners 'have to do'.     London marathon is a ballot, the entry fee is about £47 and that's for a full marathon.     Edinburgh used to have a ballot to hype up their profile and everyone in the ballot got in.   

    Anyway, it's a good chance to get another PB for you.   I would complain about the lack of proper drink stations though.

    I just checked my race on on Sunday, 8 drink stations and a bag drop.   And a cake at the finish  :)  I think I paid £30 entry fee and that's for a full marathon.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    That is a lot of money for a Half, RCouture.  I paid £16 for my 10K - chip timed, closed roads, nice wooden medal, officially measured etc so results on Run Britain.  Organised by a running club though, so they tend to be cheaper.  Regarding my recent times, if I look at my hours of exercise, it has increased this year due to Zwifting, most of which has been at an easy HR.  For 2020 I did 436hrs of exercise, but so far this year I have done 433hrs with still over 3months to go, and my running mileage hasn't been particularly high (I may not get to 2000 miles this year).  When out injured or ill, I have still managed to do some Zwifting in the main so I think that is probably a factor, plus I am a stone lighter now, which definitely helps too.  

    One thing that I cannot understand is that my training pace to MAF is very slow in comparison to my Half pace.  Half pace was 6:45min/mile, 10K was 6:23, but my training pace is often 9:30-10:30 still, so that is often (way) over a 3min/mile difference, which seems a lot to me!  I am not bothered, but it does seem very slow when I look at other people activities who are around my pace in races.  Maybe I should do a proper MAF test at some point as a better comparison.

    The rare session and that Thurso parkrun I did had me at about sub-20mins for a 5K, but the Half time I did made me confident to go out at sub-40 in the 10K as that is what the calculators suggested.  If I had been relying on my MAF paces I would have been stuck at what pace to try for at my 10K.  I think I was lucky that the Half and 10K were so close together as I was able to use the calculators for the 10K pace.  Having said all that, in the past I have wondered if me sticking to the paces from the calculators holds me back in races, but I was on my last legs at the end of the 10k (and Half for that matter) so I am not worried about this time around!
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited September 20
    Big G - That’s interesting. I’ve not been aware of any MAF to race pace conversion formula to be honest but I’m probably around that gap too. Presumably when you compare to others, you have to adjust for the fact most folks aren’t really training to low HR I guess? I am keen to get a zwift setup but will wait until an injury inevitably keeps me off running. 
  • And re the pricing, royal parks is exorbitant but ex that, there is London pricing. Even a basic RunThrough midweek 5k here is 25 quid 😩
  • Shades not only is London parks £70 but you can donate your fee in the ballot for a rain jacket!!! I’ve not done it before but I don’t think you get any bang for your buck! Just had a look at the pictures of the course for your run on Sunday, looks great! I was going to guess it was around £30 entry fee ;-) 

    Rcouture when I first done runthrough events about 5-6 years ago they were about £15 a pop which seem to have increased a lot over time.  There are some races where I can’t stomach a drink after but the seed had been planted at 43 miles.  Royal Parks are taking the piss, hope it doesn’t spoil your experience and can plan accordingly.

    Big G was talking about prices of local club run events and how they provide so much more than these big events.  They have to get it right too as there isn’t a conveyer belt of customers ready to sign up next year. Also they go to lengths to make sure they get it right.

    A light massage earlier which helped a bit with the DOMs and been for a walk to Aldi. Bought a couple of the official photos, £5.60 a pop, glad I didn’t like too many of them 😂 






  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-London is having 12 water stops and 3 lucozade cup stops this year.I always thought every mile was extreme.
    I read Shalane Flanagan is doing all 6 majors this Autumn,Boston and Chicago day after each other will test her.
  • Ian I think with London it’s more about crowding at water points especially in the early miles, hopefully with it being spaced out shouldn’t be a problem.

    just seen rock and roll have announced this is the last Liverpool event, I know Cal has done the event and people are positive about it so hopefully something else can take it’s place.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - as you know I have multiple spreadsheet calculations trying to correlate my Hadd training pace to race pace, specifically marathon as I don't care about other race times really.  So I suggest you just continue to build up the data and see if you can find the magic formula.  That's why a shorter race is so useful as can plug that into a race predictor.
    Anyway the most important thing is that MAF has certainly worked for you with minimal speedwork too, so therefore minimising the chance of injury.

    Rcouture - you're right, London pricing, which I'll never get used to.   If I moved to London I'd be saying "how much" all the time.

    Robert - great photos, worth the price.

    I looked at the course photos too today for Hullavington, and you're right it looks lovely, quiet country roads and relatively flat.

    Ian - yes, every mile drink stations in London from the 3 mile point has always been excessive.  I guess they thought the easiest way to deal with the ever increasing number of runners.  Of course they then had to warn runners in the magazine not to drink too much.   Novice charity marathon runners who maybe have never done any race before will see a drink station and think they are supposed to take another drink, after all why would it be there.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rob-I got that email and I'm running it,to be honest the reviews round here aren't good about them,they have had numerous wrong length courses,lead cyclist taking the wrong way,offering back markers a lift then giving them a time so I'm quite glad they are going.I do hope someone takes over though,there are a couple of local companies who may be interested I'd imagine.
  • Shades I think back to my first London marathon in 2011, I probably drank my body weight in water!  There has to be a better option than 23! 

    Ian I think people enjoy the festival and the medals too, I did consider a weekend is Dublin a few years ago but they pulled that one too.
  • Rcouture, they didn't have water stations at the Pride 10K (there's normally one, and it's three laps). Normally that wouldn't have bothered me but as it was warm I really missed it. I had to stop at a drinking fountain on the last lap - I was parched (fortunately there were a few of those around the route).

    Just read that this will be the last year for Liverpool Rock 'n ' Roll. Real shame, it was a fun race and even though I never had a particularly good run there, I always enjoyed it.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - have Liverpool given a reason why this year will be their last?  I'm not sorry I never got to run it, that instance of the marshals offering lifts to the finish complete with medals and finish times did it for me.

    Robert - I'd forgotten that they used to also  be the sponsors/organisers for the Dublin Half.   The Half has survived in Dublin, gone on to be a better race I believe...apart from the pandemic of course.

    I can remember runners on RW forum who had done London as their first marathon then complaining bitterly when they entered another marathon to find that the drink stations were 3 miles apart, they didn't know how they were going to manage.   
    London was my first marathon and I drank the sports drink, never having drunk it before, I drank it because it was there so thought I should.   I was nearly sick so didn't take any more.

    Cal - that's not good that they went from 3 drink stations to none at the Pride 10k, there would be some newbie runners doing that event and in warm conditions they would appreciate a drink too.


    5 miles round town in the dark this morning, lovely full moon though which helps where the streetlights aren't too good, chilly again.

    Pilates this morning.
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