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Sub 3:15 - FLM 2009
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Actually Poacher I'd really love to - particularly after reading Born to Run earlier this year but it isn't the event, it's the training - didn't Lorenzo do back to back 20 milers last year? And also, I fear it is a slippery slope. One minute you are doing the Towpath Canter (or whatever its called), the next you are doing Comrades or something similar....And where do you go from there?
Lorenzo wrote (see)
Thanks, no races planned - yet. I am trying to tune up on basic speed before going racing again. I'm determined to nail sub 1.30 half + sub 40 10km in style...
and reading back on a very busy weekend...
SBD - interesting race - not a bad time in itself but I think your instincts might be right about sub 3.00. Where do you think you are compared to this stage pre-Brighton?
GE and Lorenzo - well done, what a great achievement for both of you. Not tempted at all to do one of those races. How does it compare to a marathon in terms of exhaustion? (Obviously sitting down for most of the race must make it a lot easier
)
Keir, FW, B&B and Ant - good efforts on your weekend runs each challenging in different ways - B&B what trainers did you go for in the end?
Barry B - nice HM + PB - great confidence builder.
MM - you'll be fine with a bit of good training between now and Brum..did you think you were in sub 1.30 shape going into the race?
BOTf - assume dns for the 10k?
Welcome back to OO...and congrats to Joolska on winning the spot prize for bizarre injury of the month...
Born to Run is great stuff isn't it. Back to back LRs are a good way to train but personally I am too lazy - IMHO anyone with a few maras under the belt and a high boredom threshold should be able to complete a flat 50 on not much more than standard mara training. 26.2 miles is still the classic distance but it's just a cognitive barrier and even one 27 miler in training breaks it down.
Good stuff BTW from the duathlon kings but very pricey! In the north we are tight and pick up driftwood off the beach to burn for warmth.
Commiserations to the handstand queen - a novel excuse for baling out though....
MM - commiserations. I'm sure it will spur you on to prepare for Birmingham.
I was excited to see that I had an email from Soreen this morning; could it be the sponsorship deal I was looking for
No, just an invitation to the Manchester velodrome to join an attempt to break the world record for the most electricity generated by bicycles in 24 hours. I think I'll give that one a miss.
Just a brisk walk with the dog for me this morning.
AC - I also really enjoyed Born to Run. Have a read of Dean Karnazes' Ultramarathon Man if you want to redefine madness!
Yes, I did do one weekend of back to back 20s and will probably attempt it again this time around.
Good question about how the duathlon compared to a marathon in terms of exhaustion. The simple answer is it that for me it was more exhausting, but that might be simply about the amount of time (5 hours vs 3:15). Whilst I have always looked forward to the end of a standard marathon (say VLM), I haven't been in the position where my legs just needed to walk and stretch out a bit - I did feel this way on Sunday (hence the slow last 10K) and also when I did the Picnic and the Ultra earlier this year. It suggests to me that my threshold for being to keep going non-stop is about 4 hours but I guess for others it's different and for me it may simply just come down to getting out there and putting the miles in (aargh!)
AfE - beer at the end. Now you're just rubbing it in! I bet there won't be a 20 minute wait to get out of the car park as well.
Jools - how's your neck and shoulders?
At that price it's almost woth turning up just for the beer, and not running at all.
I did 9kms at 7:41mm, av 148 bpm. Seem to be getting better, but what kind of shape am I in to do this hill race on Sunday, which I entered for yesterday? We'll soon see.
It costs 10€, which people are moaning about, but you get a NB tech t-shirt, a ridiculous trophy/paperwieight/offensive weapon (await photo, folks) and various goodies (food/drinks).
I'll give that book a read Lorenzo - I was surprised at how much I enjoyed Born to Run. Of all the people on here I would say you were the least likely candidate for needing more training - you're already up when most of us are asleep running/cycling more distance in a morning than I am doing in a week! Have you started your new job yet?
Good man Ant - it'll keep coming providing you keep plugging away. The race will be a nice benchmark of fitness if nothing else - sounds like a bargain to me and worth it for the t-shirt, provided it isn't in one of those gaudy colours the Spanish seem to favour for their sportswear.
I am feeling right back in the groove now - albeit with tired legs - having managed in the last few days.
Fri - intervals; Sat - rest; Sun - 12.7.5 @ 7.41 pace; Mon - 5m recovery; Tue - 6 miles trail
Hospital?! I assumed, AC, that you had a sub 40 and sub 1:30 to your name already. What are your PBs, if you don't mind my asking? No trainers for me as the shop was shut. I'm looking at the Adizero Tempos as possibles. The red ones, as they're faster, according to that quick thread over there! Well done on the days of running you're putting in btw.
BarryB - How's the achilles?
Joolska - Ditto the shoulders? Having represented my county at gymnastics when I was younger (yeah, took alot of stick at school), I can tell you that headstands are all about form and balance...a bit like running really. However, not so easy with a child hanging off you!
Ant - How can people moan about that good value for the race. I look forward to the pics of the sculpture you'll get. You could always melt it down and sell it to get your entry fee back.
B&B - I am one of the slow ones on this thread hence my desire to improve speed in current training, before attacking the marathon again. That said although the wisdom is you need sub 1.30 hm to bag a sub 3.15 marathon I did it in April off a 1.33 pb (albeit one year old). My current pbs are: mara - 3.14; hm - 1.32; 10m - 67mins; 10k - 41; 6k (I have never run a 5k!) - 24m. All those are from this year but I'd say the 10k and hm are a bit soft and the 10m which was done without taper mid-training in the London mara campaign probably most representative of where I was/am. Just need to prove it now.
Oh also - I have only ever run three 10ks and all the half marathons around here (at the edge of the chilterns) are pretty hilly. The Maidenhead 10m where I got the 67mins was pancake flat and fast.
Well done on your 3:14, AC. You're the opposite to me. I think I'm fairly quick at the shorter distances and need to build up endurance, hence my sub40 from the only 10k I've run. I was hanging on for dear life at the end!
I haven't got you down for any booked races, according to my 'memory sheet' and I remember your saying a few days ago you need to book something to get some focus (which you appear to have got now anyway!). Have you been looking at some events? Are the intervals you're doing aimed at sorting the 10k first?
Not yet - I start on 1 Nov, but as it's "only" a 45 minute commute each way (as opposed to close to an hour and a half) I reckon that'll give me an extra 7.5 hours a week additional training time! I know Mrs L will have something to say about that though.
Good to hear that you're back in the swing of things. On the subject of books, another one that I enjoyed recently was Pat Butcher's "The Perfect Distance" which focused on the rivalry between Ovett and Coe. I'm sure Poacher's mentioned it in the past, but "Feet in the Clouds" is another great read and inspired me to think about taking up fell running until I remembered that I don't live near any fells!
(BTW - don't imagine I spend all my time reading running books - I'm on Trevelyn's History of England at the moment with Robert Harris for train reading!!)
Just under 3 slow recovery miles for me this morning - legs still very heavy, especially when getting off the train.
Bah - rumbled!
Thanks. So the big picture plan is to run the Boston marathon in sub 3.00 in 2012. That means getting used to running a lot faster which I think will take me a full year of committed training
In the short term I have no races in mind. I have a month of birthday celebrations in Oct so Nov looks likely. I think I'll try to find a 10k first and then go for a good time in Watford in Feb - supported by specific training - which is a race I like and have pb'd in before. I have never trained properly for anything other than a marathon before...
I am open to suggestions for flat pb courses around these parts and will probably pop in to see BOTF at his park run sometime soon.
Did she write that book when moonlighting from the Queen Vic?
On the subject of race fees, there is a Men's Health 10k this Sunday in Nottingham with a £36 entry fee.
Yes you read correctly, £36.00 for a 10k!
Belated bad luck to you MM for Sunday - I know I felt the same the previous week in a 10 mile race. Voices in my head tellng me I shouldn't be running. Even though I was a bit ill, it was a wake up call as I hadn't been doing as much running cause of the on/off illeness. I'm sure you'll pick it back up again.
.. which is quite extraordinary given that they've also got a big name sponsor. So that's about £54 / hour. B&B still holding onto 1st place at a shade over £66 / hour although I suppose that there are fixed costs associated with a triathlon that get incurred whether it's sprint or longer distance.
Thames Trot Ultra: £40 for (say) 8 hours = £5 / hour. I think I might focus on Ultras just because they're such good value!
Actually, I've just checked the cost of the triathlon and I'm embarrassed to say it was £57, which makes it, I think, £75.35 per hour!!! Goody bag? Pah, a medal and a bottle of water, which I promptly threw up! Ridiculously, I want to go back and try to win it next year.
KR - Is your stomach sorted now?
Couldn't agree more about these middle class, middle earners (I which that client would just sit still in reception while I finish this important posting) but as a parent of young children what really worries me is all these teachers that seem to spend their whole day on forums despite the appalling state of the education system
MM - sorry you had an off day mate, unfortunately everyone gets one of those from time to time. What are you aiming for in Brum? I wasn't sure how I'd get on after feeling a bit under the weather on friday and sat but thankfully felt much improved on race morning and finished 55th in 1.22.51. Without over analysing routes somewhere like Reading where I ran my pb is a much faster route as Notts is pretty up and down. I liked the route but I did find it challenging esp the first half, loads of steady inclines then sharpish hills to sap the legs.
Good race though, well organised etc
Well, at the same stage pre-Brighton I ran 1:23 for the HM, running at a similar flat-out effort basis and recording a similar HR. I am really struggling to understand why I'm in such poor relative shape having essentially followed the same training schedule.
For Brighton, I seemed to improve on a week by week basis right up to the taper. I feel I was in sub 3:00 shape but my race was comprised by the cold I picked up in the last week. As of now, at moderate paces I seem to have better aerobic conditioning (i.e. HR lower for the same pace) but I'm struggling with tempo runs, intervals and races.
Post Brighton training has gone as follows:
Weeks 1-4: Rest week, followed by 3 weeks of recovery runs with 5 mile and 10K races. Ran slow in the 5 mile race and picked up calf strain in the 10K
Weeks 5-9 Injured. CNBA to do any alternative training so ate and drank and felt sorry for myself
Weeks 10-11 Recovery weeks
Weeks 12-22 Following P&D 55-70 schedule, 3/4 sessions missed due to niggles
I can think of a couple of things that might explain the poor results:
1) The combined detraining effect of the taper, recovery and injury periods
2) The aggressive increase in mileage from 5 weeks of rest to 55 miles per week, which meant I missed out some early threshhold sessions and suffered from general fatigue.
3) The increased stress of starting a new business and working long hours
4) The excess weight that I seem to have put on since Brighton
So, forgive the self-indulgence, but I would be interested if anyone has any thoughts on why it's all going horribly wrong.
Ferret racing? I think I've missed the point!
Obviously I know nothing but what I've gleaned from this 'ere thread in the last 6-8 months so feel free to ignore me.
All the factors you've mentioned are bound to make a difference to your race day.
You averaged 6:46mm for your HM, as far as I can work out, which is 6 seconds in hand over your required mara pace.
You also ran 5 miles before your HM, which won't happen on mara day will it?
Will the taper not also deduct a few seconds per mile overall? You've been doing some high mileage recently?
Add to that the fact that you may just have had a slight off-day and all is not lost IMHO.
For my own benefit, how much difference does the taper make? Does one feel full of beans on the mara start line? Not that I'll get the full benefit because I haven't run enough miles! I also realised today, that I haven't carried any drinks or gels on any of my runs, which may have been an error of planning.
This was last year's t-shirt, although the ladies might argue that the model who agreed to sport it is marginally more attractive:
Gaudy enough for you?
SBD - the combination of 2) and 3) seem to point to fatigue in general. One of the things that I'm going to remind myself in the run up to VLM next year is to get a proper amount of rest and not just rely on having an extra hour lie-in the weekend before because I'm tapering and don't need to leave the house until 7.00. Easier said than done I know, especially with work and family demands, but I find it too easy to feel guilty if I haven't been for a run, when actually I'd benefit more from having a rest. Watch this space!
SBD - Yes, I don't think the game's up, either. You've been unlucky with injuries, and Real Life has been getting in the way. Above all, I think you're head is trying to pull a fast one (well, you know what I mean) and try and convince you everything's going wrong. Surely you're a non-starter for Abo?
Well, no, of course you aren't. You did a brisk 5 m w/u before your HM, it was a course which no-one was going to get a PB at, you felt you weren't at your best, and yet you still did 1:28.
Others have said it before, and others still will say it again: you are doing just fine and should rule out nothng at Abo.
Chin up, mate, and Go For Gold!
That 10k in Nottingham isn't your average 10k race. There's a ludicrous obstacle to tackle every km. The health and safety cover must be pretty expensive as I understand competitors wade through the ming of Holme Pierrepont and fire arrows.
Ferret racing? Must have missed something...
Last day of hols - boo !! A very windy 12 miles tonight round a lagoon in the one-horse town of Bergen op Zoom. Have managed to pick up a tiny uncomfortable feeling in left calf so having a couple of days off. That'll mean no running for 3 out of 4 days ! Gadzooks. Not sure whether to look forward to it or dread it
SBD - keep your nerve - so much of it'smind games so thinking negatively is bound to backfire on you
MM - kind of reasurring I suppose to reinforce that trasining works (usually) and form in races doesn't grow on trees
Jools - are your stiff bits improving ??
Ant - have you been mucking around with photoshop for the colours on that pic ??
Keir - get off that internet forum and go one scare some teenagers !!