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POSE Method of running?
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Grey Pilgrim, sorry I haven't been on the site for a few days so hadn't answered your question.
Well I've read quite a lot about POSE and only experimented in short bursts in the past (say a few hundred metres at a time) because I was training for the FLM and didn't want to injure myself by doing more than that of an untried technique. However, I had noted that the key point was the lift so, on the 5M run I did last week, all I did to start with was focus on that. I didn't consciously try to lean or to land on the balls of my foot. It did feel like I was landing on the ball of the foot but it didn't feel like I was leaning. In any case my knee is always bent on landing so that part is natural for me.
It felt very natural and, although 10 mins faster, I actually felt less tired. Having said that I'd run for 10 less minutes!
So I'm in no way saying it was a perfect technique but it was definitely more comfortable than my normal technique but for me the exciting bit was the extra speed. I now have a year until the next FLM so will definitely work on this and see where it takes me.
Silver fox - the thing about pose is to not focus on the landing. the thing to do is focus ont eh pull of the leg to the body rather than lettingthe body fall onto the leg. The whole thing about the pull is to keep that swing leg up and not let it reach for the ground before you take your weight form the support this means you jsut drop the foot when you have to - it will land under you and in the right orientation if you let it - If you try and place it - you will place it incorrectly and it will hurt.
good luck with your exams/dissertations boys and girls. I know I did mine a long time ago and now most of what I leart has been made redundant but that is the nature of my job
GP nice run - very light and smooth. i agree with your analysis for what it is worth. interesting you say you fing the pull is wutomated - I still haev to think "pull" - POSE is always a work in prgress I guess. Did you see Valeries post about the hips on posetech? - interesting I wonder if pelvic rotation around the vertical axis is going to become part of POSE mantra?
I had a real plod this morning and found it all demoralising - still tomorrow is another day.
Here is the pic of GPs run that explains it all
It is the point where he has started to pull his foot from the ground, the knee has started to bend (not extend)
http://www.tigwigs.force9.co.uk/id4.htmLook at his swing leg - it is still tucked up and he has not yet started to reachfor the ground but he is already pulling his support.
Also re the lean - he is falling nicley look at the angle from support to the hip - a nice "lean" event hough torso is only inclined forward nicely
Nice form GP
Did a short run earlier, slow tempo again. Recorded my cadence in 6 sec intervals which worked out at 200 p/m !!
Sounds daft, but I didn't think it would be that quick as I was running slowly but I can now see how the technique applies to all speeds. The vid of Dr R doing a slow run confirmed this - wish I'd found that earlier! Was trying to run too fast, like most of the 'pros' in the vids...
I was definitely over-pulling and over-falling before. Calves not as sore (been doing skipping) and I felt I could have run on forever. Looking forward to my next run.
Silver Fox: See you at the next FLM. Any chance of some video of you running before then?
CT: I find it is my focus on posture and stretching up which keeps me running light and not plodding.
"Nice form" Ahh! sweet of you to say so.
Was that Valeries post on Pose coaches needing coaching?
Siance: Sounds like it is coming together for you. Skipping is something that might help Bear too.
I'm planning on starting pose technique subsequent to a race in mid-May, and am signed up for a 12 mile 'race' in mid-November.
Is 6 months sufficient time to master the technique and make the switch to complete that kind of distance comfortably?
(and empathy in abundance to all those struggling with academic endeavours - I'm half way through a PhD *yawn, tries to dig up some motivation*)
Hi I'm thinking of starting to learn pose can anyone make some recomendations as what trainers i would need. I currently run in Asics 2130's and I understand that these have to thick a heal to learn pose properly. Can anyone recomend any trainers and point me in the direction of somewhere that I can get hold of a pair.
p.s. I'm a size 11.5
thanks
Learning to run pose is something that can be done in your present trainers although you will find the perceptions easier in a shoe with les in the heel. any flat racing shoe is OK really (I use adizero PR) but I run in Nike frees as well. the free 3 is OK IMO. I know a level 2 coach who still runs in her Nike super cushioned shoes.
Others will say it is better to go for the puma H street, NB a52 or the sauconnay Kilkenny if you can get them.
The Jinga Shoe is a very minimal shoe but I would not actually recommend it to a complete beginner.
However, as pose is a journey I would suggest you use what you have got and make the transition to less of a shoe when you know you are going to continue the journey
Pose update for me. Up to 40 mins pose running now. Didn't feel any calf tightness during my run - the skipping's working. Also I think I was landing too much on my toes before rather than the BOF. I'm still running slower than pre-pose, but I think that will come once the technique feels like it's always been there.
At the moment after the first mile or so I have to focus on not getting carried away and increasing my stride length, reverting to old style. To re-check that I'm doing pose I find listening to my footfall useful, in terms of sound (lightness) and frequency (turnover).
Some may have come across my ITBS whinging on the injury thread; the good news is I had no ITB tightness or pain in my R) leg
BUT... a niggle started at the same point on my left knee
It wasn't severe, felt like a 'settling in' niggle and felt nothing afterwards. Sigh. Hope this isn't the start of ITBS on my other leg 
Bizarrely it came on at precisely the same point that my R) pain used to. So will have to monitor that.
Got a compliment from another runner today too. A retired guy who runs regularly saw me as I was finishing and said my running looked effortless
Regarding trainers, I have los of H-Street, but also some more traditional racing flats with thicker soles and heel than the H (which has no heel), and I enjoy running just as much in either. The "r-flats" feel a little more detached from the surface but it doesn't cause a technique problem. Ultimately you need to feel your feet but also feel comfortable with your shoe. Don't think that you have to go for ultra thin if you feel more comfortable with running in a slightly thicker sole*. Fear causes injury and if you are more fearfull in ultra thin shoes then choose something like cabletow was talking about earlier. When you "get-it" (Pose running that is) you can actually run very well in pretty much anything.
*Normal thick heel running shoes are not great and will quite possibly lead to calve pain, but many racing flats are just fine.
Siance,
Always nice to get "that"comment - I think it is a Pose rights of passage
. My favourite comment I ever got was "you're not just a fun runner are you.". Hope your ITB is getting better - a video of your running would be *very* useful at this stage if you can get one done for us to look at.
Jon P, yes I realise a vid would be ideal. Unfortunately I don't have the equipment / technology to do one (yet). As for my ITB, my bod seems very sensitive to biomechanical changes - just a day working in different shoes (wear trainers for work) can affect me. I can feel my L) knee today after my run, so something's not happy.
Before pose I was running in custom-made orthotics in a moderate stability shoe and now I've gone from that to a flat shoe with no orthotic, plus a different running style, so there's bound to be altered forces etc. I have built it up slowly though over the weeks with no problems, and yesterday's run was an extra 0.5 of a mile, so not a huge increase.
Now I'm running longer I'll have to experiment a bit with the footwear as I may need more support? (I've always been a forefoot striker that overpronates). There's no room in my pumas for an orthotic though, and I don't think I could run pose style in my old thick-heeled shoes
Siance, ITB is a bu66er in that it can take a while to go away even after you have corrected any running faults. Yes I believe overpronation can be a cause. With Pose if you land under your GCM this shouldn't be an issue for you. So, you need to make sure you aren't landing ahead of your GCM (late pulling) or reaching forward with you lower legs on landing (quad engaging). It's very difficult to give advice on this without seeing it.
What I will say...keep running as long as you can hold form, stop for a minute if you feel your form breaks and then restart the run.
but just wanted to post about interesting running shoe called the "newton" which is specifically aimed at forefoot and midfoot striking runners
the video here explains
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euV1YqEJv9o
i recall in earlier times on thread that the purist shoe for POSE was a very minimal uncushioned shoe or even barefoot
i quite liked running barefoot but with the extra weight i had on i felt like i needed a shoe which was cushioned
however
the shoe needed to be cushioned in the front , not the heal and i hadn't seen anything like that
the newton seems however, to be specifically aimed at that and i am curious to know if this is already well adopted in the POSE community?
have any of you guys seen these / used them?
(with apologies if this has been discussed earlier in the thread)
Hi LOK
I believe that humans evolved into perfectly balanced efficient running machines which because we think we are now "civilised" we have now somehow become disconnected from this reality. POSE is a way of looking at running which can enable us to get back to this efficient technique. The minimal shoe thing is a compromise as we are just not used to running barefoot. Newtons may well be useful for runners who have not quite "got" or able to "get" POSE for what ever reason but if they have, then the Newtons are just not needed and so not much take up of this shoe. There was some discussion on the main POSE forum but very few supporters. What little review there was suggests that they are good for landing on the BOF but no help in landing under GCM.
I find the newton's strange. They talk about forefoot landing, but then stick what looks like an enormous heel on the shoe - I don't get that
. With a racing flat I always look for a shoe with as little spongeyness (is that a word?) as possible in the forefoot since it deadens the reaction time. If you run right you can let your lower leg muscles and tendons do what they were made to do instead of relying on artificial springiness.
I think there are plenty of better shoes.
interesting points
jonp
from the look of the video, i thought the opposite ie that heel looked like it was small compared to the front of the shoe ?
what i can't figure out is whether i love or hate the idea of the forefoot area being cushioned
my sense is that if you're doing POSE "right" then you don't need any kind of cushioning even on the landing spot
thanks for your inputs anyhow
i am long term injured at mo so i shouldn't be looking at shoes really!
(actually was googling another kind of "newton" running thing - a machine for injured runners - when i chanced upon those )
JonP, thanks. I'm definitely not landing ahead of my CGM. I take your point about stopping when form's lost - it's difficult though, esp when those endorphins kick in!
The thing I've noticed since running Pose is I feel nothing in my quads during the run, they feel light as a feather. After my run I'm aware I've used my legs in general but there's no soreness, whereas before I always felt some quad tightness the day after running. I can only think this is due to not striding out with my leg, reduced muscular effort etc?
Paul, that's good news about your knees. Are you running in flats or using 'normal' running shoes?