Shades Marathon Training

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  • Shades - I shall assume cos you bash the sidewalls in indoor footie and it also prob explains why my butt hurts too. Only thing aching today is my legs but only one spot which is probably not doms but er muscle damage. To be expected i guess a running we do NOT change direction often but with football you do.

    No hangover as i did not drink huge amounts just a little tired as it was gone midnight when i got home.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, it's currently just for one race entry, so in some ways encourages the "bigger" races I suppose.  If I won it, I'd put it towards a foreign marathon, some of which can be fairly pricey.  Initially the suggestion was to continue with the list, but basically have 5 London Marathon places (5 years) and the rest of the list go onto a different list in the same order, for the new £75 prizes.  I suggested scrapping the list idea altogether (apart from the first 5 for London) in favour of a lottery and there were some deep intakes of breath initially, but in the end it was unanimous.

    Regarding the London places after 5 years, the then committee will decide at that time as there was a bit of talk about even if London would offer club places in 5 years, so we didn't go into that in case it changes again.   If I am still on the committee at that point, I would be in favour of reintroducing a lottery as opposed to a list though (i.e., maybe 1xLondon place plus 3x£75 entries, all drawn out of the hat).  Although London is cheaper, if I was first out the hat in that instance, I'd personally still choose London rather than the £75 race entry.  But all of that will be discussed if/when the time comes.  I wasn't on the committee at the time, but I think a reason a list was chosen was to stop people winning the prize multiple times, but I just said that as it's a lottery/draw, that's just part of it.  Personally, I think encouraging new members to help out at races (we do need their help to stage successful races!) and have them in with a chance of winning something is a positive too.

    There were a few Trotters who went to Lanza this year, so we're trying to get some tips from them about places to stay etc.  It is a good option as they do 5K, 10K, Half and Marathon, so something for most people.

    I've just been shopping, which actually wasn't too horrendous!  I'm about to go out for a run, but for whatever reason I'm just not really feeling it at the moment.  Hopefully I'll perk up as I'm out there.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I think I've decided I'm going to replace Gloucester marathon with.....the Trotters Awards for night the evening before! I've got a double the first weekend in January which I have to say I'm not especially looking forward to now it's nearly here (Milton Keynes) and another double on the Plym Trail course (the weekend of the awards night) doesn't really appeal. So I may take a rest day and go to the awards night instead....

    Travelling up to MK tomorrow (Monday) for my last marathon of the year on Tuesday. Only managed 5 today and that was enough too - mojo has gone a bit!
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Big G-Maybe you've done a lot recently,hence the slight mojo drop,sure it will be back soon.
    20 miles today,waited until the heavy rain passed but it was still windy and drizzly.I actually really enjoyed it today,probably my most comfortable 20 miles yet,the only slight tough part was I ended with a couple of decent hills and 1 was particularly long with just over 3 miles to go,but overall really happy with it.
    It also gives me my highest weekly mileage at 58,I thought I'd not been going to well recently but that was my 3rdx50 mile week in the last 6
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Keith - you've been very restrained at this year's Xmas parties ;)

    Big G - I agree having a draw/lottery for the 3 x £75 and later on the London place is much more exciting and at least everyone eligible has a chance.  Bit depressing to be even 4th or 5th on the list and secretly wishing something happens to the ones above you. ;) if only that they give up marathons.

    I don't think you need to worry about your chances in the draw, you should have your eyes firmly set on get in a GFA time now, it's within your reach now.

    That's a good decision to ditch your double and go to the Trotter's Xmas do instead, plenty of opportunity for more and better doubles later in the year.  If you wake up on the Sunday morning wishing you could do another marathon you can always call Davey, I'm sure he'll have a few DNS places available, but I don't think you will ;)

    Very odd doing a marathon on a Tuesday, I'm sure it throws the body clock out doing them on random days.

    Ian - that's a cracking 20 mile run, especially at this time of year when there's so much going on and you are so busy at work and you managed to enjoy it too.   So that's your marathon training just about done and dusted, only 4 weeks to your race. :)  

    Had a lovely run this morning, coldish but no ice, no wind, no rain and the birds were singing even though it was dark, think that means the sun is going to come out.  Didn't have to rush home in time for the 7 a.m. Pilates booking frenzy as no classes next week.



  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Sounds like you really enjoyed your run this morning.
    You had me checking my emails then,it's 5 weeks yesterday until my race,not sure how to do my long runs the next few weeks,current thinking is 20,16,20,12 race.With a light week this week I should be ok doing another 20 next weekend.Im going to struggle to get 30 in this week I think,then hopefully 2x60 weeks then 2 weeks taper.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - sorry, think I had zoned into Xmas week this morning, having posted my Xmas cards this morning and I was even enjoying the Xmas lights while I was out running 

    You know you're going to be rushed off your feet at work so do what you can but don't over exhaust yourself, don't want to pick up any colds/viruses.   The bulk of your training is done so fit in a run when you can and the distance dependent on your energy levels.

  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-I actually had time and energy to enjoy some of the lights in the villages I ran through yesterday aswell.
    There's only this week where it is tough for me as I've got an extra day off each of the next 2 weeks.
    If I do 2x60 weeks,then 2 weeks in to the race I taper,what mileage would you suggest? 
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Ian - for the 2 weeks of your taper do you mean?   If so after your 2 x 60 mpw, drop to 40-45, then race week 25 + race = 51.2
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yeah a GFA does feel within my reach now, but in some ways it's just one of a few targets for me next year.  I really want to get to 50 marathons overall, which I think is my main target really.  I think my main time goal is sub-20 5K as GFA just seems too much of a jump next year.  I got pretty close at a sub-20 this year, but it just didn't quite happen, so hopefully I'll do a few of the 5K races and get that done next year.  I am not sure if GFA will happen without a "proper" training block (i.e., 16 weeks with no other marathons), as my weekly mileage is quite low now, but I'll just assess how I'm doing throughout the year.  If I am writing this time next year without having shaved a few minutes off my marathon time, I won't be too happy (assuming no injuries etc)!  

    I've learned a lot of things, but I think one of those things is that I race better in the Autumn than I do in the Spring, due to it generally being a bit cooler conditions, which does impact which races to target for good times too.  But, I prefer the Spring for training generally as I was able to get double-days in and fairly high mileage for me, as the weather is nicer to train in.

    There was something on one of the Facebook groups about people who do hardly any training in-between marathons.  I.E., some people do a marathon most weekends, but don't do much running (if any!) in the week.  Of course many then generally get slower overall, and I don't really want that to be me, although it does seem to be really common - both RK and Chair have warned me of it!  I'd like to prove them wrong though and shave a few minutes off at least.  It must be possible with the right balance as one of our runners has got PBs from 5K up to 100 miles this year, whilst doing marathons fairly regularly.  It's getting the right balance!

    I also need to figure out how all this fits in with the DD, and maybe take a few weeks off of marathons before that event.  I do have a potential triple at the start of May, but then could do no marathons until DD (just under 5 weeks) - would you recommend that approach?  

    Ian, that's a great run for you, and even better that it felt good.  It bodes really well for your race!
  • Ian - As mentioned on Strava, that was a great run!
    Cal - Good to see you back running!! Fingers crossed you stay injury free in 2018.
    Big G - Liverpool is a good race, I did the half a few years ago. Medals are really chunky!

    Did a 14 miler on Saturday which felt good (8:32 average pace), then did my LT session on Sunday that I missed in the week due to the ice. Wow....what a killer session that was! 2 mile warm up, 15 mins at LT pace, 4 mins recovery then another 12 mins at LT pace then a cool down to make it 8 miles. Averaged 6:38 for the first section and 6:45 for the second section. Not great as wanted 6:30, but gives me something to work on. Almost 40 miles for the week (39.8!).
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - you're right, it is about finding the right balance for you to perform at your best.  Do you run at your best when you've had 5 weeks with no marathons?   I don't think so.   I think you should put one marathon in that 5 week period, ideally a hilly one if you can find one. 

    Your last PB was 2 weeks after running the Cornish which because of the hills took longer to recover from than most of your marathons this year.  You had a good strong run at the Cornish too so you could look at your performance the few weeks up to that.   Re running in warmer conditions, it's a possibility we could have that at DD although it's less of an issue in an ultra as pace is slower so as part of your preparation you want to run a couple of marathons in warm conditions, it really does help with conditioning the body to deal with the heat. 

    I agree autumn races are much better for PB's, that's because the bulk of the training is done in warmer conditions and then race day is cooler and lower humidity and it just feels that much easier.   Lot's of runners are so disappointed trying to get a PB at around London time when they've done all their training in the winter and then race day is just a little warmer and many of them can't cope with even a small increase in temperature. 

    There are a lot of the runners doing marathons every week or so and with little or no training and they don't make any effort to improve they are merely chasing numbers.   They're not prepared to do any training.   Some will moan about having a bad run and being slower than they'd like but if they look in their training diary that will show they just don't do the preparation and the training.   For anybody underperforming the answer is 99% of the time in the training diary.

    Steve - that's a great week's training for you especially after that long prolonged cough you had.   Still good paces for your LT runs, I'm not surprised it felt hard though.

  • Thanks Steve. That's a good run and week you've had.

    As for marathons, hmm. I think a few a year are enough for me although I may start chasing quantity or doing ultras once I'm too old for PBs. :lol:

    I'm glad I opted to run today rather than yesterday, as the sun was out and it was lovely (although cold!) I seem to have dealt with the virus, too - a couple of sweaty yoga sessions must have flushed it out.

    I ran four miles again but it was quicker this time. I had a long-haired mongrel when I was a kid and he was a lazy dog most of the time, but would get very frisky when it was cold out. I think the same thing happens to me! I honestly wasn't thinking about speed at all - right now I'm concentrating on my posture and which part of my foot I'm landing on as I'm trying not to aggravate my hip. My splits were 10:27/10:23/10:02/10:14 which is quite a bit quicker than last time, which is pretty much down to cadence as it was 2 steps per minute quicker across the board. Aerobically I feel a lot better - I felt pretty unfit my first few runs back but that seems to have gone. I'd like to do a parkrun this weekend as I've not done one in months, but I will obviously be going slower than normal.
  • As for the marthons etc, I've been going further and doing more each year, so looking forward to focusing on shorter stuff at the beginning of next year. If it goes to plan, I might do that every year, 10k/HM in Spring then Autumn marathon, or other way around. Rather than trying to race 2 marathons each year, which obviously take longer to recover from. Although, I know at some point, I'll be tempted and end up doing a 50 miler!!
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Argh, had a long reply typed and accidentally closed the tab somehow (due to fat fingers) and it's lost most of it. In summary, good running everyone, I ran XC on Sunday, felt like it went ok but could be better. 33:01 ish compared to 33:30 last year so not all bad but slowed down a fair bit second half. Survived xmas party friday ok, had quite a bit to drink but over a long period and with meals so felt ok. A bit tired on Saturday but slept ok that night.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Thats very close to the numbers I was thinking of so good to know.
    Steve-That sessions sounds tough,sounds like you're coming back into form now.
  • LoueyLouey ✭✭✭

    Hello! Sorry for the long absence (yet again). I can't remember whether I said on my last post that I had signed up for another marathon after the DNS at Abingdon.  I had intended to do a proper post last week but came down with another cold/fluey bug and really wasn't sure if I was going to run it until Saturday. Anyway, I ran the Portsmouth Coastal Marathon yesterday and finished in 4.24.53  (by my Garmin – still waiting for official time). Will do a proper race report soon as there are stories about the time (and some of the mile splits). It was also 27 miles due to the route being changed on the way back because the tide came in. I enjoyed it but the last few miles were brutal. Shades – you will be very pleased to know that I have already done a recovery run today (with eldest son who is already on school holidays) and my legs are not too bad at all. 

    I need to go back and read what I have missed but I know from Strava that there has been some great running from BigG and SK has been winning lots of things. Also – Cal – really glad to see you are back running. 


  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Good running there Steve.

    Cal, good news you seem to be back running.  It's always hard those first few runs back after a lay off, but it does seem to come back quite soon - although it can be miserable at the time!

    Louey, well done on the marathon.  Looking forward to the report!

    Shades, regarding the run up to Cornish, I did 7 marathons in 6 weekends, but again didn't do a lot of running in between really.  I think you're right though that a couple of weeks of no marathons seems to suit me, as  two weeks after Cornish I got a PB as you say.  I suppose I was asking as I don't know how that translates to the longer DD distance, in terms of recovery.  Also, the fact that I'm considering a triple is another unknown 5 weeks before DD.

    Am I right in saying you don't really go over a marathon in training for the DD?

    I got up to MK today in really good time, and went out for a run around the lake straight away.  It was sunny, but cold....and it was at that moment I realised I've forgotten my wooly hat!  I've got a buff with me, so if needs be I'll have to pull that up over my head tomorrow....

    I forgot to say but I got my car fixed.  It was the spring which had sheared right off, but the weight of the car was kind of holding it in place - the mechanic says he sees it all the time in my type of car (Pug 207).  Anyway, I got both sides done, so all fine now.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Cal - so is it Manchester and Liverpool for you next year?  Any other targets or goals?

    Steve - you'll have to find what suits you best, but trying to race 2 marathons a year has left you short of quality training time for the 2nd marathon due to recovery from your big ultra of the year.

    Nick - well done avoiding the hangover and doing a great XC time too.

    Ian - good, I'm glad we agree on the mileage as after all it's you that has to run those miles :D

    Louey - that's a good result at Portsmouth.  I remember you asking about the race and I was hoping Jugula would appear as I think he's run it before.   Brilliant that you've done that recovery run  :)  

    Are you doing Brighton again next year?

    Big G - be careful what you book after DD, it will take longer to recover from than a marathon and that's due to the hills, the downhills mainly.

    The double you did took you a little longer to recover from but I think that was in post race tiredness rather than DOMS.   So your triple should be your last big effort/event before DD so if you were going to do another marathon before DD you'd probably want the weekend of the 20th, you could be a bit tired for the 13th, it's not easy trying to schedule these races.  

    No, the longest training run I've ever done is 24 miles and I have no plans at the moment to do anything that far.   What makes DD hard is not the distance but the hills and the possibility of the weather making it just a bit harder is there too.   High weekly mileage makes me far stronger than the long runs.   I doubt you've done many long runs either in the last few months, excluding races that is.

    I saw the forecast at lunchtime, fog tomorrow and a bit chilly but should be OK.  Good news about the car repair, your car probably knows it's own way to MK now :D



  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Big G - forgot to say that the HE cocked up yet again.   Write up of your last marathon is fine, but on the opposite page there's a nice pic of a few Trotters with the caption something like 'Trotters line up for Cockington Canter' and all the runners are wearing numbers with Cornish Marathon clearly on the race numbers.  :#  HE staff need to go to Specsavers I think, they really are hopeless.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, that is very strange - I wonder how they managed to mess that up!  I just double checked the email I sent them and I definitely sent them the correct picture from Cockington.

    Thanks for the advice about DD etc.  Yeah, I've done no long training runs for weeks - I think the longest I've done is 10-miles in training.  Of course, I don't necessarily "race" all the events, and I doubt I will tomorrow either.  I like to think that's partly the reason why on occasion I feel fresh and ready to go a bit quicker during certain events, as I'm not too tired from racing too hard all the time.  My two big PBs this year (Munich and Nottingham) came after a relatively easy previous weekend.

    I do have a fairly busy Jan-March with a few marathons lined up, but I need to get some hills in after that I think.  I need to sit down with the diary and plan it out loosely....possibly that's a job for over the xmas period!

    I presume there's no real value for me in getting a couple of 20-milers in during training for DD, if I still do marathons in March/April/May?  If I do slightly less marathons in April/May, but instead get out on some hills for 10-15 mile sessions for prep for the DD, would that be a loose plan?
  • NickW2NickW2 ✭✭✭
    Big G - presumably when you are running marathons at roughly a minute per mile slower than PB pace, from a training point of view they are akin to a 26.2-mile training run?

    Louey - that's a bit annoying that they had to make the course longer! One of my friends who I often run with at my club was doing that one I think and going for a PB, so that doesn't bode too well for him.
  • Shades - Maybe restrained but i was still too lazy to be arsed with dinner last night so ordered a pizza from takeaway ;)

    Managed to fall off of bike this morning on ice going to work broke the front reflector of and i think that was it for the bike damage as for me my right arm is somewhat sore if i bend it or twist it but it is only bruising as i got some one to take me to A&E after tea break (get priorties right weh ;) was secret santa day anyway and i have wine now) and 0 mins later 2 x-rays show nothing broken which is pleasing. Just have to be careful with the godkids tomorrow evening
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    NickW2 said:
    Big G - presumably when you are running marathons at roughly a minute per mile slower than PB pace, from a training point of view they are akin to a 26.2-mile training run?
    Nick, I wonder if there may be something in that, but the problem is that I'm much more tired after doing a marathon in 4hrs than after doing a 20-miler in say 3hrs. So it means I can't do more mileage in the week, due to tiredness. For example, last week I did less than 30 miles, with a maximum of just 7-miles (twice). In the week of a marathon, it tends to be 50-55 miles, whereas back in the spring/summer I was regularly over 50 miles and even a couple of 60 miles and was feeling generally pretty fresh, when not doing as many marathons. It's not that I feel absolutely knackered all the time, but I just don't feel I can get out and do a longer run mid-week in between marathon weekends.
  • Keith - ouch! Glad nothing's broken.

    Shades - correct. I am not sure about targets at this point as I'm starting from scratch, more or less. I'll just have to see how training goes.
  • 6 miles for me tonight which is my first run in a week due to the weather and work. It felt really good and had so much energy. Just about came a cropper on what ice was left on the pavement. Came to a part on the cycle path what I thought was a puddle so I jumped over and landed on what was black ice.What a site I must have looked trying to regain my balance but thankfully I never went down.
  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    edited December 2017
    Big G - I am always amazed by the amount of errors that they do make just on the Trotters write ups, you can't do any more for them short of walking in their offices and setting up the page yourself.   I'm just about to cancel my delivery as they can't get that right either and I'm fed up of phoning when it doesn't arrive.

    Re DD training all your marathons will be good preparation although we're short of a choice of hilly marathons in the Spring so I would suggest that apart from your recovery runs just do as much training as you can on the hills, shorter runs too.  It's not like you'd have to go far to find any hills round here ;)   If you have the time a 20 mile hilly long run would be good, if not 10 milers will do fine.   

    Good luck for today, bet it's cold up there.

    Keith - well I'm glad you didn't break anything and didn't miss your tea break either :D

    steven - You must have looked like Bambi on ice, lucky you didn't fall and hurt yourself.


    Frosty here too this morning, although we weren't supposed to get as much ice as we have.   Most of the roads and pavements are OK, just the odd bad patch.   Had a good run, but it was cold, should be warmer next few days.



  • SHADESSHADES ✭✭✭✭
    Nick - there must be some training element in running a marathon at a pace slower than race pace.   But Big G and I know a lot of folk that run a marathons on a regular basis and they run at slower than their race pace but they don't get any better and their fitness doesn't seem to improve.  
  • JellyJelly ✭✭✭
    Glad nothing broken Keith, I've not been on my bike since I fell off, will get it out once clocks change.  I've had such a fun weekend. I did the Mudcrews Scrooge run, I haven't laughed so much in ages. 7ish mile run around grounds of gardens of Heligan Cornwall. We had to go through 3 ponds both out and back, I was swimming at one point because it was so deep, mud past our knees another pond and streams, climbing over logs and hills. I was in a group of 4 of my favourite running buddies and we were all in fancy dress. Runforthehills was one of the crazy people. I've not been well and was so looking forward to this one it was the case of kill or cure, well I'm still here and now worse than I was. Last night was our clubs mince pie marathon (4-5 miles with lots of carol, food stops) we have a fancy dress competition. I'm now the proud winner of 2017 and RFTH runner up. It was great fun. 
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