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Shades Marathon Training
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Shades, that's excellent, I'm so glad you had a much better run than expected.
Anyway, Manchester went very well. I had a good night's sleep at my friend's place and he dropped me off just before 8. I spotted the 4:15 pacer as we went to line up and thought, well, I'll try and stick with him until halfway and then see how I felt. As it was, I got chatting to another guy at the start and lost sight of the pacer, who had moved forward, so I spent the first two miles running 9:20s to catch him up. After that I sat behind him, and even held his flat for a bit when he went off for a pee!
I went through halfway in under 2:07 (I've run slower halves than that!) and tried to maintain so I just stayed with him.
Once we got to mile 18 I was starting to slow slightly and he was beginning to pull away. I did 18 and 19 in 9:49 and then mile 20 in 9:58.
At that point I went past a Chaser who, I think, was having her first marathon and I thought of staying with her but she was moving slower than I was so I just went on. My last 4 miles were in the 10:20s which isn't bad (last year I was running 10:40s and 50s, and mile 23 was over 11). When I got into the finish funnel I even managed a little sprint and came in at, officially, 4:18:20. So just over an 11 minute PB! The only issue is that they have me down as male in the results but I've sent them a message so hopefully they'll fix that.
My dodgy hip is a bit growly so I'll need to take it easy this week but overall my legs don't feel dreadful (I managed to walk down the escalators on the Tube). And now I've gone that close to 4:15 it feels like a realistic target for Chester, if not Liverpool (which is much hillier).
Shades - You managed to pull that one out of the bag too. A great result after training not going to plan, lack of long runs and the small matter of a 9hr ultra last weekend. Fab result.
That Mike's pie place looks worth a visit!
Ian - Glad you managed to hang on to your bragging rights
Big G - Interesting about your writing. Have you thought about maybe doing a journalism course? I know you've written for some papers already but it might be interesting as well as possibly opening a couple of doors for you too.
Those goals sound great. Something clear and achievable to go for but with a bit of leeway in there as well so you don't lose the priority of enjoying your running.
I was supposed to be doing a 30k today but woke up with a head cold and feeling really groggy so a big fat zero on the mileage front today. Fab start to the holidays
Tiny tia - Ian5 on this thread is also recovering from achilles problems
Cal - fabulous PB, well done.
mamafox - bad luck getting a cold right now. Take a few days rest and hopefully it will clear soon.
5 mile recovery run done. Legs are fine but I do have a sore hip flexor, it gave me some discomfort during the marathon yesterday and then eased off. Only hurts to run, not walk so hopefully it will clear up soon, I have Yogalates this morning that should help.
MF, I haven't looked seriously at courses. I did have a look at some online creative writing courses but at the time there were some very mixed reviews on them, so didn't enrol on any. I think for it to be useful in the industry the course needs to be accredited by certain bodies, but it is something I could look in to.
My ribs are or more-or-less okay but still hurt very slightly (I'm talking 0.5/10) if I stretch in a certain way. I'm not going to run as it was pretty much like this before I did the 3.5 miler, so I'll see how it is tomorrow or Wednesday. I'm climbing the walls, which often results in eating too much, so I need to keep an eye on the food intake! There were 13 Trotters at Taunton and 4 of them got GFA, so a brilliant day for the club, what with the young Trotter winning the Half, which he ran at his hoped for MP. Seeing all these Spring marathons and some fine results makes me want to get out there even more. I need to be patient!
I won't be running today - I don't want to put any more stress on that TFL for a couple of days at least. I woke up several times last night (always the same after a marathon) and decided to read for a bit while I iced it at one point.
I am about to go for a walk, though. It's raining but I feel restless and I have to go shopping in any case as I've no food.
Shades, out of interest, what do you think my training paces should be now? I averaged 9:49 for yesterday according to Garmin.
Big G, can you go for a walk at least?
I've been quietly chomping away at my training plan. Ran a odd 10 miler Sunday, my pace was all over the place. Just couldn't settle into a rhythm but it averaged out just a fraction over my slower target MP. 9:05min/mile.
Felt very dehydrated afterwards and I now have any achy back, so something a little odd with that one. Might just have been from the cold, wind and rain....?
However I am in excellent spirits, Sunday gone concluded 21 weeks of dedicated training following Shade's plan (17 weeks + 4 pre-weeks that I added for the run up to xmas). Feeling the fittest and most prepared than ever. So all I need now is some favorable weather conditions and i'm off
Really excited for Sunday!!!!
This is a great thread and Shade's plan has suited my level of running very well and from what I read on here everyone else also gets great results. Good Luck
Welcome Tiny Tia. Your name makes me smile as, when I was teaching PE, I had one pupil called Tia who was very small but also very feisty.
OTB, are your kidneys OK? Achey back and dehydration could be related.
Well I haven't had a beer in 3 weeks, so maybe my kidneys are wondering whats going on
Back ache is more upper back and just below the shoulders. I had my camel pack with me Sunday with just under 0.5L to sip on, so nowhere near as full/heavy as it has been for my longer 20 mile runs. My form wasn't normal for some reason hence the hectic pace. Guess that's had an effect on my back or maybe I just slept funny... Pretty confident it'll go in a day or two, doesn't feel like i've pulled anything. Just strange.
Cal – very well done! That's a stonking pb! I'm so glad that you back to being able to run again. I realise that you still have niggles but last year you were struggling so much to run even a few miles so it's lovely to see you running and enjoying races again.
Shades – Well done – what a great time on so little long runs. I bet your "gently undulating" is more like my "hilly"
Your tales of 24hr races
really do not entice me into doing one!
BigG – I'm sorry you had to pull out but it sounds like the right decision. Hope you recover soon – ribs are so painful! I can't believe you have now done so many sub4hrs. I remember the angst of being so close and not getting there and then BOOM.
Steve – looking forward to hearing your race report from the Solihull half. I've seen the Strava result…
Mamafox – I can't believe you are still the school chef – hats off to you! Have you got any races coming up? I am looking forward to the time when one of my elder children can babysit so I can go out for a run. We are several years off that though.
OnTheBeach – just seen from the list that you are running Brighton as well. How are you feeling?
A big hello to everyone else (and welcome Tiny Tia).
A quick update from the past 4(!) months. After the Portsmouth coastal marathon just before Christmas I basically had a week off and then was straight back into the next marathon training plan. Which hasn't gone too badly really. I've managed to do all the long runs (3 x 20, 1 x 22 and 1 x 18) and a fair bit of speed work. First half in Feb went pretty well, 1:51 which was not a pb but not too far off where I was last year (1.48). Then the next 2 races I entered were cancelled because of the snow (a half and the 20-miler I do every year). Really bad luck I know. The half in my home town gave out the medals and t-shirts regardless and I will have a half price entry next year. The 20-miler I have automatic entry next year so it's not all bad. My left knee has been fine but I've got a niggly left Achilles – it's manageable though and it only has to last until next Sunday when I will hopefully be running Brighton. My husband has kindly passed on his throat virus but I seem to be through the worst of that. I dropped a couple of runs last week but managed 10 yesterday so I'm optimistic that I will be ok.
In other non-running news (and the reason I have been basically awol from the thread), I have been dealing with buying a house, organising building work on said house (starting today), a nanny that keeps going off *sick*, a load of hospital appointments for my eldest son as we've moved into a new area and dealing with the local special educational needs dept who want to move him to their (inappropriate) choice of school. Running is literally the only thing that has kept me sane the past few months. And now back to obsessively checking the weather forecast for Sunday...
Be patient, it's only 6 days until your next marathon
Great results from the Trotters, Mavericks had a great day too at Taunton and at Manchester
OTB - glad you're excited and ready for Sunday. I expect your odd back pain is just part of taper fever and it will soon go.
Louey - lovely to get an update from you and you have been doing your homework reading back through our ramblings on the thread. I will add you to the marathon list on Wednesday when I update it. Life is still hectic with you and the family and moving and renovating house! Thank heavens running helps you cope with so much. Good to hear training has gone well and that knee problem has gone away.
Big G - I think you might have been interested in this, details not decided yet but probably a 50km or 6 hour round the Millennium Coastal paths (tarmac), but it clashes with your C2S. It will be good training for my 24 hour race
If you use your marathon time for your training paces you are doing so assuming that you've just about reached your potential in the marathon, which you haven't yet, but are getting a lot closer
Whereas if we used your 1:57 half time from a few weeks ago your paces would be
Easy 10:20 min/mile
Long 10:20 to 11:20 min/mile
Tempo pace 8:30 to 8:50 min/mile
Marathon pace would be 9:19 (predicted time 4:03:56)
so I think you'd be happier using the training times based on your half marathon time
It's my 3rd Brighton marathon so I know exactly what to expect from the day. Like you i'm now checking the forecast for Sunday. As long as it isn't a heatwave like last year i'll be well happy.
I also ran Portsmouth Coastal in December, but I only ran the half. Guessing you are based down south too? I'm in Portsmouth.
Good Luck for Sunday
Shades, yeah I'm planning on getting around Great Welsh as well as I can. I strongly suspect I'll have to take some paracetamol but fingers crossed it goes okay, although not too concerned with time really. I do feel I've taken a massive step backwards with the enforced lay off but I suppose that is more in my mind than anything. But since that ultra nearly two weeks ago I've done only 6.5 miles, when really I wanted to tick over nicely in the run up to DD. I'm very concerned I haven't done enough hill work for DD! That ultra event in Llanelli sounds good. I have already entered C2S so maybe it's one for another year.
OTB, not long until your marathon either. Your training seems to have gone really well, so hopefully you'll get a decent result on Sunday.
Louey - Good to hear from you!
Cal - Massive PB, congrats! Will you be running Liverpool as enjoyment or will you go out fast?
Thanks for the wishes everyone, unfortunately the GF couldn't run as she picked up a viral infection during the week and the Doctor advised her not to run. She was gutted as she had put in her best training block, but the training is done, so she can always run another half when recovered.
As for me, I lined up 4 rows from the back at the start and set off too quick! The plan was to aim for 6:25 min/mile. Went through the first 3 miles in 6:09/6:17/6:06, so eased off after this. Then clocked 6:23/6:24/6:19 which was more like it. Went through 10k in about 39 minutes, so around 30 seconds slower than my 10k PB...whoops!! Next few miles in 6:35/6:25/6:34/6:24, cleared 10 miles in 1:03:33 on my watch, but didn't pass the 10 mile marker until about a minute later, which was down on scheduled pace!! Started to pay for my early pace with a 6:45 and then the wheels started to fall off with a 7:04!! Pulled myself together with a 6:27 and was really hurting now, and managed to sprint the last part at 5:03 pace!! To cross the line in 1:24:24 a 28 second PB....talk about fine margins!!
Happy with that off no taper, having run 58 miles last week. Was a tough race as ran alone from about 3 miles in. Finished 12th overall out of 439.
Re: Liverpool - it depends on how I recover.
Shades - yeah you're right there. The only time I've got close to 12min/mi is when I've been going up a really nasty hill (such as on Streatham Common, which is used for cross country). Bear in mind my fastest mile at Royal Parks was 12:15 when I was walking.
I do wonder why the discrepancy, though. I'd read your marathon time should be (unless you're elite) twice your HM plus about 20 minutes, which is pretty much what I did yesterday.
I've done no hills either, due to ice/snow and sprained ankle although I do have a hilly race on 22nd. There's no hills at Great Welsh just 2 gentle climbs, which we do twice but they're not long or taxing and the running surface is very smooth which should be good for your ribs, except for slightly rougher bit but that's short.
Steve - that's a great PB and at your pace 28 seconds is a lot. So sorry your GF couldn't run, now you'll have to find another race to do.
Cal - predicted marathon time should be twice your half +7 minutes. But in reality most runners are happy with twice half + 10 to 20 minutes. To make the +7 minutes requires a combination of more base training/ higher mileage/some speedwork/ and for most more race experience. It makes very little difference whether elite or not or how fast or slow the half marathon PB is. Some elites have the difference down to 4 or 5 minutes.
If you use those paces always start by aiming for the slowest end of the long run pace to get the maximum benefit and no more than 20% of weekly mileage at anything faster than easy/long pace.
Steve-Excellent racing,I had a spy at the results and you were 11th on chip time
Big G/Shades-Hope you're both fit and well for Great Welsh.
Spent some time earlier doing my plan for chester,obviously don't know when I'll be building to it yet but I'm looking forward to getting starting again at some point.
If you decide to drop the training paces, try and keep your running style, and stick with it. I've had people comment that my long run pace is very slow and they've surprised with my marathon times. The method definitely works, even if it may feel a bit odd to start with. I've gotten used to it now and don't really look at my watch that often any more when out on a loner run.
Steve, well done again on your PB. Great running, but sad to hear about your GF.
Shades, fingers crossed I do okay at Great Welsh, in terms of not making the injury worse. I remember you saying before that any niggles will get found out at DD, so I'm just hoping it clears up in time for then.
Shades- good effort especially after having training issues.
Steve- superb time for your half, saw your result on strava and that's a great pb well done.
Ian/Big G- I so wanted to run Barcelona this year however due to work commitments it was not possible. Hopefully I will run it next year as all I have heard is great reports about the race.
Tiny tia- welcome to the thread, there is good people on hear all with very good advice.
22 miles today in some really good weather at long last. Felt really good during the run but still could not get my slow pace correct. That's my final long run in the bag so happy about that just need to keep away from the chocolate now after easter.
I treated myself to a new pair of shoes a couple of weeks ago Brooks Ravenna 9, I was amazed at the difference from the 7’s, for me a much better fit as they are quite snug which suits my narrow feet, they are also a whole ounce lighter and more cushioned. The result is I’m enjoying running more and toying with the idea of another marathon next year as I should have enough training time between work committments.
I can't believe myself I'm still school cook. I'm sure I shouldn't be doing it, I have absolutely no cooking/hygiene qualification to my name. The only thing which comes close is a Brownie badge circa 1976 with a cup of tea on it. Probably earned by giving a biscuit to someone in distress or something.
Anyway, back to running, my training has been rubbish and blighted with injury/accidents.. mileage is at an all time low.. so I've done the only logical thing and entered the Marathon de Blaye on the 12th May
OTB - Sounds like you're raring to go on Sunday too!
Shades - Isn't it normally about now that you dig out those videos of Brighton seafront in storm conditions..?
SteveMac - That is a blinder of a PB! Well done you
Jugula - Would you consider doing another overseas race and make in into a holiday for your wife too? (come to think of it.. have you actually told your wife you're thinking about another marathon?!)
Cal - Was your race prep the same as usual for Manchester or did you manage to eat anything for breakfast this time?
No running for me today. Did some cycling though. I had a dentist appt and, as I still have no car (let's not go there), I got on my bike feeling groggy and full of cold and cycled the 15k to the surgery only to be told that my appt had been pushed back a week. Apparently the receptionist had told OH when he took smallest child for an appt last week. I calmly got back on my bike and grimly cycled the 15k back home.
OH has spent the evening working on the BMW