Moraghan Training - Stevie G

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  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Bus - bad news on the foot, hope it clears up soon. I guess it waa quite a bad wound internlly.

    Pete - nice one on the 35, i was all set for a 35 but then changed tack at the end. Not sure it wad worth rhe extra really.

    Joe - cracking runs from you both, i might have a beer with you, i dont need much of an excuse. Youd both go much quicker in a race.

    SG - back in the 6:XXs for a 10, nice.

    Had a non distanced run in with a bike today on a blind corner ended up face to face with a guy both of us holding the bars from opposite sides, but i managed to stop him crashing into me.

    P and D 10 in 4m LT, its been a while, av 6.11 for the 4m, bit undualting early on and a couple of 180 turns, so should get closer to 6mm after a few attempts.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Nice one TR.

    Years ago I used the P&D plan to adapt a plan for Lit.
    I remember thinking at the time that the LT zone they define is pretty tough.

    I can't even imagine trying to put in a 7mile shift between 15k and HM pace! Even the slow end of that sounds pretty dam brutal to me!

    I'd have to split it into 3x2mile or 2x3miles HMP, like I would in a build up to a HM race.


  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020

    I suppose it's Daniels approach which is the nearest to what I've worked to

    You work out your VDOT from your times, and then you get different zones like "T" for Threshold - but the critical thing - is that they slow per time running.

    So the 20min pace might be the equivalent of the P&D LT zone, but it can stretch to say 15-20secs slower - which is what I always used as my "MP" zone.

    https://www.runnersworld.com/advanced/a20825580/threshold-training-finding-your-vdot/

    You'd start there, then ramp up over time.

  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    SG - i dont really think too much into it, its just 4m pretty much as hard as i can on the day. I know id probably run a 1/2 at a better pace on a good day. I dont expect to get anywhere near hmp at 5, 6 or 7m when these runs get longer.....however i will add that i rarely do stuff like this and im more of a diesel engine anyway. As per today, id run a 1/2 to effort not pace.
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Rapid pace for that 4m stretch TR; just over 1'20 HM pace which you must be happy with as part of a solo 10. 

    You've completely lost me SG with VDOT :* . VO2 is hard enough to follow in my book but good luck with it and also very impressed to see you almost 6'40 pace over a tough 10 miler. 

    First proper session of the Trees' 10k plan today; was 4*2k 'tempo' (which he defined a HM pace or 80-85% Max HR) off a 3 min jog recovery. Bit of an issue that for me; even if I call my max HR 180 (well over 220-age, but seem to hit near 180 in hard short races so maybe) that would be about 150 max and no way I can get to HM pace on that HR. Decided to try and go at somewhere in the 4-4'10 per k mixer (so on av about 1'26 HM).

    Went to Ascot perimeter track as best local place for reps and the 2k's came out as 7'57, 8'05, 8'28, 8'22 so an average per k of 4'07. Felt very hard work though and av HR was 162, so not sure I could do a HM at that pace right now even if I had the endurance. The good thing about the plan is easy days are to be taken very easy (about 120 HR) which ties in with running with my daughter. Next hard one is the 7k TT set for Saturday which is supposed to be flat out race pace. Will try that and then make a decision whether to stick with the plan once I see how hard next week's schedule is ;)



  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Fair comments and i suspect most who follow that plan for those LT do the same!


  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    I thought "finding your VDOT" was a technique from Cosmopolitan in the 90's!!!

    Tidy session anyway that Pete.

    Likewise TR - the 4M LT looks very good. Close one with that bike!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Vdot is easy. Take a recent time get a vdot number and that corresponds to zones to do runs in. Some might say it's "spreadsheet based crap" but the truth is that everyone works to zones either explicitly or implicitly.

    But just to clarify I've only come across VDOT from Johnas when he trained me.

    It was hearing him mentioning insane tempos at "threshold" that made me wonder how they were possible but it all clicked when realising they slow with time. Still tidy effort but not insane effort.

    But i also see how the Moz man has adapted his style off Daniels.

    Pete, 3mins is a big rest period for 1.2mile HMP efforts but i suppose it's easing you in and will soon drop! So enjoy that for now. And i suppose 3min jog is different to 3min stop. I've only had that off 3k paced 800s or something.

    Wait until that probably becomes 5x1mile reps at 10k pace off say 90secs 😄
  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    You may be right SG, but much harder and I'll give up! I did cock up one of the recovery jogs and only give myself 2 mins and I also ran all the recoveries except the last too fast (about 4'45 pace when it should have been more like 5'30 to get the HR right down). The course is not really flat either, with one side being about 2% uphill and also not in VF's so a reasonable start overall I think. 
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    A good coach will make the plan challenging and progressive.

    So if it's pitched right, it should be like you found this one - tough, but achievable. Then you progress and can handle slightly harder each week. Be glad you can't see week xxx now, or you'd bin it right off :D

    With those splits, are the first 2 on the slight down, and the last two on the slight up? To account or the quite big gap between the pairs?

    Can't quite place what a race course perimeter track would be like. Is that a sort of grassy trail? Or like Maidenhead's sort of track? Either way neither sound "that" fast, so that will have played a part too.

    However, good to see you booting some "proper" sort of reps out. Not something you do that often? And again, great news compared to not that long ago where any running felt awkward on the calf :)


  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    SG;  No grass; its a fully tarmac 1.5 mile track in the grounds of the racecourse going round the outside of the Ascot racetrack. It is used on race-days for ambulances and other emergency vehicles, but on non race-days (so the vast majority) it is open to the public. It is great for reps as traffic free but you do get some dog walkers too. You should come over and try it sometime if you fancy a change of scenery; Wool too; be good to do some reps with you guys. 

    Its hard to say anything specific about my reps as they all started at different points given it was 2k on then 3 min jog recovery. I just went round and round on that basis (covered just over 4 laps by the end or 10.3k). There is a noticeable drop on one side and climb on the opposite, but the slowing up was only partly due to more on the up side and partly just getting more tired!

    Still worry about the impact of fast stuff on my calves; that's why I liked the sound of this plan that had lots of very easy days to recover on. 
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    Bus - ha ha, the mythical Vdot, does your man know how to find it.

    Pete - that path sounds ideal. Regardless of pace, rest, Vdot, or whatever else, its a long way from thinking your days were done and jogging about with a calf injury. Happy days.
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Decent speed session Pete especially with those running recoveries.
    Flying on the LT there TR & coincidentally pretty damn close to Daniel's threshold pace for a 2:50 marathon.
    Decent 10M pace SG. I've been running mostly trails the last 10 weeks.
    Stonking result Joe. You were open about your ambition & were able to convert it into reality even once the going got tough. Chapeau. That final 400m or so definitely rescued the PB. Superb run from KL too. The lockdown turbo training has obviously done wonders for both of you.
    14.3M on the Forest fire trails for me with 5 segment efforts thrown in. The only CR I got was mine already :D but I did take it down by 24s which is a 12% improvement in 6 months. Improved significantly on 3/4 of the others too moving into/up the Top 10. Only the last one, a short hill climb after 10M, spoilt the clean sweep. Moves me over 1500M for 2020 & the Boston 6's crossed that threshold on yesterday's outing.
  • WoolWool ✭✭✭
    I ran round there the other day Pete and noticed the incline more than I had before. Probably as I was knackered at the end of a hot run but there's certainly enough incline there to impact an intervals session. 

    Sounds like we should hook up for some interval sessions as I certainly never have an issue in running my recoveries too fast. In fact the idea of running them at all is a bit foreign for me!
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    Was weighing up a drive to The Lookout in Bracknell as that used to be a great place for a run out and was where they held their XC before the move to Lightwater.

    I still remember some animal double decker hill combo.

    But checking their website they've closed their carpark and asked people not to drive there. Could probably park however far away and run there but if they're making that request it's a no go really.

    Shame. Same with Dorney Lake. That's a real blow shutting that down until October. Let alone for locals!

    Lost another Slough seg. Reverse direction of another one round a park.
    A guy who is a 19min 5k guy took the 1km down to 5.30 pace. That's a good effort.

    But I'll have to get back there at some stage soon and re-address the balance.

  • PeteMPeteM ✭✭✭
    SG; the southern half of Bracknell Forest (park and enter in Bagshot, about 3 miles south of the main entrance along the A322) is almost deserted as it nearly always is. From there its about a 25 min jog to The Look Out. When I  run from home I'm at the Look Out in about 40 mins and usually pass only a handful of people the whole way. The prob at the weekend was the good weather and open car-parks attracted loads of MTBers and walkers back (surprise!). Now its cooler and many people are working they've closed the car parks :* Can see why you'd rather wait till all officially open again though.

    Wool; let me know when you fancy an interval session there then. I'm with you on normally walking (if that!) in recoveries (in the days when I actually did reps ;) ) so having to run them threw me. I went too fast in all the recoveries till I realized my HR was hardly reducing at all before the time for the next rep. 
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    Another 16.8M for me - almost pan flat: just 440' of climb mostly when doing grassy laps of the school grounds as it's on a slight incline meaning a 52' climb in half a mile of a 0.9M lap. This was the final team effort to raise awareness (& funds) of mental illness in memory of a former pupil who took his own life a few weeks ago. You can read about it here https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/loughborough2istanbul I'd run 10K at 7:2x to get there & did an easy 7K with some colleagues before a weary 10K back to my car.
    SG one for you: ever been barred from Flagging segments? Spent an hr this morning going through the activities of a couple of bozo cyclists who'd clearly not worked out how to change their default activity or correct the upload. Completed one chap's - his 'runs' were things like a hilly 20M at 3:58 pace :D interspersed with the occasional 1-4M run at 10:xx. From a couple of pics he looked to be well in to his 60s too!  Then moved on to the 2nd chap a local parkrunner I know by name who runs 28-30 minutes each & every week yet was out doing regular 5:xx average pace for 3-13M outings on the cycle tracks round the forest :s Needless to say many of the more outrageous ones had already been flagged. After flagging a few I got a message saying: "Flagging content is temporarily disabled. Please try again later." That was this about 8am but I'm still barred apparently :(

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
    edited June 2020

    Sorry to hear Jools - reading that link, he sounded a guy with loads going for him, showing none of us know what others are truly going through. Looks like a nice tribute in your run.


    Back more in my comfort zone - irrepressible anorakism - I encountered exactly that message for the first time a couple of days ago!

    Apparently you have a flagging limit per day - that seems to be in the 10-15 territory.

    Then you can't flag anything for 24hours - it's designed to stop you just doing it maliciously. Apparently they can actually take your flag facility away if you are found to have done them without decent reason,

    I had very similar to what you say, some colossal douche who had cycled the same route week in week out for ages - leaving me 2nd in a seg :D

    Took a few days to clear his crap out!


    Can you actually flag from the app? Or do you need to be a premium member?

    I have to do it back on the laptop.

    Other issues on the app, are things like only seeing a seg is say 0.4m, rather than the specific, of whether it's 0.40, or 0.49 - that makes a big difference to the average pace needed.


    Segment Friday tomorrow - I know you'll appreciate that Jools, whilst others don't

    But it can't all be PO faced seriousness can it and if ever there's a time for random length multi paced stuff, it's surely now.


  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Bloody hell Jools - you are a machine, pan flat or not!!

    Anyway - WHINGE ALERT: FEEL FREE TO MOVE ON!

    After a shitty day at work, that went on so bloody long I couldn't go for a bike ride, I decide to run instead. Foot was OK, though quads are not ready for consecutive runs, right up unitl the poitn where I tripped on a concealed route and stubbed my toes. Guess which ones? Yep the bleedin too struggling to recover! What are the chances of that (technically one in 5 as its two toes out of 10, but let's not be picky!) Thought  I'd broken a toe at first! Typifies my whole bloody day tbh as now the brand new wi-fi hotspots I've just bought have stopped working!

    I asks ya!

    Right, whinge over......

  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    (searches for "Things can only get better" D.REAM vid on youtube…) :o
  • JooliganJooligan ✭✭✭
    SG Thanks for that - back to flagging at about 8:30am tomorrow then :D Enjoy the segment smashfest. Saying that you've probably been enjoying it most of the day scoping out the route & exact start/end points ;)
    Bus What have you done wrong? or maybe it's time to buy a lottery ticket as surely you deserve some decent luck to make up for this string of misadventures.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭
     :D That comes tomorrow Jools.
    Might head back to my work town and see if i can rack up loads.

    Roll on being 10miles in through various shenanighans and boobery and only trying 4 like last week 😄
  • Reg WandReg Wand ✭✭✭
    I consider myself a reasonably prolific flagger of activities but I would never have discovered that limit  :D

    Nice work Jools, you've certainly put some miles in for a good cause.

    It seems like all Buses stuff comes along at once, maybe a name change is in order. Much like you I was really busy, on Wednesday, and ended up working until 2am so I never got to do my 5km. Similarly busy yesterday so when I finally had time for a run I was too tired to smash out 5k and also wanted to spend a bit longer outside. Hence I did an easy 10 miles instead. With my refusal to run two days consecutively, that probably means Saturday for a 5km effort.

    Actually reading your toe stubbing incident Bus, reminds me that I almost came a cropper yesterday, I stubbed my foot on a wooden walkway, lunged forwards but surprised myself that my forward leg managed to hold me up with the help of both my arms, which had flung themselves over my head and brushed the ground like I was momentarily running like a four legged animal. Thankfully legs were fine and arms just a little jarred. I actually felt like the hard cycling and doing a few press ups and some occasional weights helped me here, just felt a bit more robust. Mind you, I never managed to get anywhere near 100 press ups. Topped out at about 50 and since been rather neglectful of it.


  • WoolWool ✭✭✭
    blimey Bus, this has to be the end of your run of luck, just has to be.

    I'll try a jog over the next few days and once I'm back on it I'll be in touch Pete to see what your schedule is. Mine is very flexible at the moment!
  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Cheers chaps - I must have upset someone!

    Good save Reg :smiley:

    As feared, it's swollen up like blown up washing up glove today and quite sore. Seems like its put it back 3 weeks, but we'll see.  And I don't like cycling in the rain!!!!
  • TRTR ✭✭✭
    edited June 2020
    Bloody hell Bus ! I always joke that my eldest plays cricket like a stunt man (knocked out and broken teeth colliding with the keeper, popped his shoulder, swollen fingers, mashed up wrist, bruised legs), the same applies to your running and biking.
  • Stevie  GStevie G ✭✭✭✭

    Bus you're having it hard, so for something lighter, I popped over to Slough for a seg rampage.(If you're not into segs - just scroll past)

    Gave myself a tonne load of options, all around the area, ranging from the tough ask sprint paces, to moderate "just get the route right" to cruise it.

    Ended up taking 9 of the 10 I attempted.

    The one I didn't get was typically the one I tried first and needed the sharpest pace, sub 5 for quarter mile on a path in Salt Hill park. Very windy, which certainly didn't help,

    Tried it twice, and I reckon I was 50-50 for hitting the right pace on the second one - but on checking it's logged me at 10-12min miling :D Must have stopped too soon daganabbit :)

    The rest were all between 0.35miles and 1.2miles (bar one final 0.25miler), needing between 5.30 - 7 (!), so took a fair few of them down a huge way.

    Pleased to still boot out a 5.15 0.25miler 15miles in :)


    Was surprised to see that a "Hill" loop in the Slough ends was a pretty moderate slope, and obliterated the "Up" seg. Got 5metres into the "down" version, but it was such a blooming gale it seemed an absolute fool's errand, especially gone 12miles by then.


    But all in, 16miler, taking about 3hours + all in with the drives in there! Looking forward to a right lazy evening and day off tomorrow I can tells you!

  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Cheers chaps - it does seem like the world is having a go with this one, but it'll pass :smile:

    Good work SG! 16M with 9 segment records is some going (and planning!). After all the lockdown segment hunting going on will need to add a "Strava Wanker of the Year" award to our end of year stuff (No offence Sg - once this foot sorts itself I'm going hunting myself :smile:)

    Bike tonight - low energy levels and a seemingly relentless headwind meant I called it a day after 17M! Still, better than being plonked in front of the TV! (that's for later!)
  • SCoombes2SCoombes2 ✭✭✭

    Evening chaps. Living the dream here - Home made Moscow Mule on the go (Vodka, Ginger Ale and a slice of lime) and a 90's RnB apple music mix on the headphones.

    Obviously plaudits to Joe and Katie - just saying to the HHH whatsapp group, is there a London runner who hasn't done a session around Battersea this lockdown? Good sessions from TR, SG, Pete and Jools, hoping Wool and especially Bus heal up soon. Bus - just keeping seeing images of 'Reg Prentice' Kenny Everett's hapless caretaker character when I hear more of your woes! Luck has got to change soon mate.

    Not going to moan about too much about my running - had a very lucky 'run' injures wise, probably out for a total of 4-5 months in 20 odd years. Still managing the left hammy quite well, it's not going away anytime soon though. So after the 5mTT disaster I had a nice parkrun trot round in 28.50, wit the kid, nice to enjoy it again. Sunday run was ok, 6.59 miling  for 14.6 miles, warm and breezy. Had a 5 miler Monday, then put the old Adios on for a session Tuesday - 5min tempo, 6 x 60 secs with 90, then another 5min tempo. Felt ok amd the leg was ok too, so very happy.

    What a difference a day makes. Thought I'd stick the Rockets on for the 9 mile trip to East Bucks (Wing) and back. Felt really 'meh’ for the first mile anyway and the leg was ‘nervy’ and funny – well that sorted itself a bit. But after about 3 miles after I have gone up Wing hill, the right calf starts hurting 3/10 style. By the turnaround at Wing it was 5/10 and had to run back with it. Threw the bloody Rockets in the wardrobe!!

    So put the compression socks on for the rest of the day – then the Hoka Hupana I ordered were the wrong size!! Anyway Weds was hobbling, been better yesterday and today. Will run a bit tomorrow and see what it’s like. Got some more Adios 4 delivered yesterday, still waiting for the Hupana’s now I think it’s gone wrong..hey ho!

    At least the ones I’m sending back were £105 and the replacements are £85. £20 up….once I get the money back.

    Like the font changes?? Anyway got to go - 'Shy Guy' by Diana King is on. Reminds me of a drunken summer 1995 working for Eurocamp near exotic Calais!!

     


  • The BusThe Bus ✭✭✭
    Quality evening, but sounds like you've taken on some of my luck Simon :smile: Fingers crossed with that hamstring.

    We used to go on holiday with Canvas Holidays a lot around that time - did you ever work for them as well?
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