Shades Marathon Training



    Big G - that's a great video of MvdP, so impressive.   Yes, they mentioned in the final chat about how he had brilliantly calculated the only way he'd get the yellow jersey by strategically gaining the points.

    Ian - on FB the organisers did say t-shirts will be back next year.   Maybe they didn't want to pay out a lot of money if there was a possibility the event would be cancelled.

    Some runners don't want t-shirts, I like a nice shirt but I have to chuck out most of them as they don't fit so are useless to me.  Pointless waste for me, I'd rather have option of with or without t-shirt.

    That's a lovely memento having her number framed plus photo etc.

    Fortunate it wasn't too hot then re the fluid situation.   It's wasted effort really carrying a bladder when there are plenty of drink stations, especially now you know she doesn't need lots of fluids.

  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited June 2021
    Ian - Congrats to your OH on her debut. I’ll bet she’ll forget the pain shortly and be keen on another! I’m sure your own race will be set to rights once you get your mileage back up. 

    Shades - Re forthcoming races, next up I have Farnborough half a week on Sunday (11th). No expectations really and I won’t be tapering or anything. Just to set a more realistic half PB and to have fun. We are getting an Airbnb in the area and taking the girls around the South Downs that weekend. Royal parks half in October will be main goal race. 

    7 miles this afternoon. Super muggy out. 
    edited June 2021
    Rcouture - not long until Farnborough then, you should be able to do a good comfortable PB there, even if it's a bit warm, being July.

    I expect you'll be planning lots of weekends away with the family in the future that coincide with a race.    :)

    Big G - watched TdeF highlights last night, so much drama, I found it really stressful.   Really exciting though.    Can't watch the highlights tonight as I have a Zoom meeting at 7pm and it will be too late by the time the meeting finishes.

    5 miles this morning, undulating route today, very overcast and humid but not rain.   Wildlife, a baby squirrel, don't think I've ever seen such a young squirrel.

    Pilates this morning.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Bit of a change in fortune today,I've gone and won the club lottery place for London.Need to get training again properly now.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Ian, congrats mate. Chuffed for you. As you say, really something to aim at. You’ll love it!

    Shades, yes, carnage yesterday!  I’m in a fantasy league and I’ve got Roglic and Ewan so not the best day for me. 

    I found myself almost itching to go out last night, so I went out at around 7pm for 7-miles and had an enjoyable run out.  This morning it was a very sticky 10-miles, but glad I went. 
    Ian - that's brilliant news, congratulations, were you originally planning to do Chester that day?   About time someone from this thread got a place in London.

    Big G - no, not a good day unless you had a bet on that they'd crash that day  ;)

    Good you've got your running mojo back.  :)

    Pilates was tough, good but tough.   And in 2 weeks time we have the dreaded foam roller class, a whole world of pain to look forward to. 😭

  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes, strange how it goes in terms of mojo.  Last night it was just nice and relaxed, and then today on my "flat mile" that I use as a gauge for how I'm doing I was 30-secs faster at the same HR than what I was complaining about the other day.  Obviously no change in fitness in 3 days, but I did feel a bit lighter on my feet today for whatever reason.  I am supposed to be doing a track 10k tomorrow evening, but I am still undecided as my hammie still isn't 100%.  I'd like to do a track event having never done one before, but I'll decide either way tomorrow depending on how the hammie is feeling.
    Big G - that just shows how mood/feeling of wellbeing affects our running performance in such a big way.

    Track race might not be a great idea.    Without any undulations, corners, change of cadence etc., might end up with a very sore hamstring form the repetitiveness of the run.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Shades-Yes I was in for Chester, will keep the place for now and see what happens with London,just in case it can't go ahead.
    It has re-energised me anyway as I was feeling pretty rubbish after Sunday,and as it is the same date as Chester I can still stick to the plan I had.
    OH is now asking me to get her a plan for Manchester  :smiley:
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Ian - That’s great news. Assume that’s your first London? Your OH didn’t last long 😀.

    7 miles for me at lunch. Humid and windy, my two least favourite conditions. My local park is also super busy as backs onto the tennis. Wimbledon is always such a drag in our area with crowds and parking. An irritation really (especially when I’ve not got tickets in the ballot 😬). 
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Ian - Do you use specific training plans? Or you just mean your own plan of mileage, long runs etc…?
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-She asked me earlier-Why do I feel like I want to do it again after struggling Sunday? Then before maybe you could do me a plan in case I decide to do it,so yeah that's her going for it.
    I just do my own,I really want to do P&D 1 cycle,but only when I am 100% fit.
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Pfitzinger and Douglas, they have written 3 books,it is mainly for experienced runners,they have a decent amount of speedwork in but a lot of people swear by them and it seems to get good results.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited June 2021
    I’ve bought the book on Amazon. I’ll pretend I’m an experienced runner 😀. Only seemed to be one book from them called advanced marathoning. I presume that’s the one. 

    I suspect I’m still at the stage where just running more will bring gains but I’m always interested in having a read. 
    Ian - if this year's London is not in the format you would like, or you have a niggle, you'll be able to defer to next year.

    Two days, didn't take long for your OH to start planning her next marathon.  :)

    Rcouture -P & D gets great reviews, the speed work does break some runners but you've got a very strong base so might suit you well.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    I have the P&D book too and I’d also like to complete it but I’ve not managed it. I think I’ve attempted it twice but when the tougher sessions started I picked up injuries in the past. I’d like to think I’m a stronger runner now and I do have it in the back of mind to try it again at some point. 
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    Big G - I take it P&D goes beyond 80:20 principles?
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Yes, it includes lactate threshold sessions and, later in the plan, VO2 Max sessions. I’ve not read it for some time but it doesn’t really go into HR training, from memory. It talks about things like ‘half marathon pace’ in order to describe the intensity of the sessions. 

    I’ve not got the book but another one that has a lot of followers is Jack Daniels and his Running Formula. As I mentioned, I’ve not got the book, but I hear people say that his plans don’t go much past 16(?) miles for the long runs, so a different approach, but it also has a lot of followers. 
  • Ian5Ian5 ✭✭✭
    Rcouture-Yes the book is a lot more detailed,I got it as a present at Xmas and I am determined to give it a go some time,maybe for the spring.For London it will just be increasing my mileage and go from there.
    Big G - is the Daniels plan the one with low mileage, very few easy runs and running the long runs on tired legs?

    6 miles today, lovely morning.

    Gym later, was planning to do lower body session but may have to change that as my glutes are still sore from Monday's gym and hamstrings a little sore from Pilates yesterday.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Ian - I understand how OH feels... I felt very disappointed in myself after my first marathon because I'd had to walk stretches - I felt as though I hadn't "run" a marathon. But I went back the following year and got around without stopping. She's already as fast as some of my quicker non-stop races so she'll get that sub-4 easy next time out.

    Rcouture - I did Farnborough in 2020 (January...fortunately it wasn't very cold - they've had snow some years). It's a nice race though you'll probably be smelling plane fuel for the airfield sections.

    As last week, I took two days off running and did half an hour on the elliptical and then strength training - leggy rehab on Monday and back and arms yesterday. I was feeling my achilles very slightly after Sunday's run so I am not keen to poke that bear with a stick, so to speak. (It felt fine this morning although groin was niggling again...not terribly badly though).

    I did a 7 mile run, returning to the alphabet roads (a series of roads beginning with the letters A through J) in Tooting for a bit of speedwork - pushing on the alphabets and then catching my breath on the top and bottom bits. I recovered a little then did a longer push along the top road before heading back.
    I was considering a push up a road called Nimrod that links Tooting to Tooting Bec common, but it felt a bit too laboured on the uphill bit, and I was then was distracted by a ginger cat in the middle of the path so stopped briefly to give him a head rub.
    I do need to get back to running hills again - the question is how to do it without annoying my hamstring.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited June 2021
    Cal - Nice run. Will have to try these alphabet roads when I’m near your way. 

    Shades - I’m not sure that my body handles anything more than 1-2 moderate/speedy sessions per week. Historically I’ve found I just end up injured or not making progress. I think one tempo/interval per week then some quality in a long run seems about as much as I can handle. I can then basically do an unlimited number of MAF miles around that (well, limited by time at least).  
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Shades, yes, I think that's it - I think people also do relatively long runs on consecutive days.

    Cal, sounds like you had a good run out.

    13 miles today with a couple of hills thrown in.  Again, quite a humid run for me and as I knew I'd be out for a couple of hours or so I took some water, which was needed.

    Just sold my Garmin 735XT for £88 so at least that's some cash back for the Fenix.
    I don't really understand why some folk think that having a walk in a marathon/ultra is any reflection on a poor race or poor training.  Not being able to walk briskly is a major downfall.  I often in the latter stages or on steep hills will walk or run/walk and I frequently overtake runners who are running and that is so annoying for them.   

    Cal - I had about 10 months with my hamstring origin injury and couldn't do hills if I wanted to recover.   Around here hills are hard to avoid so after a few months I started to do a few gentle hills but with baby steps or walking with a very short stride.  But no striding out at all.   I still was able to do some PB's while recovering from that injury.

    Rcouture - one or two faster sessions is plenty.   But these plans can be adapted to suit you or just use their speed work sessions as new ideas to try out.

    Big G - I only managed to watch the first 10 minutes last night of the TdeF highlights but I did hear that Cav won which I'm pleased about.   Will watch the rest today.

    I hear the PofF in Princetown has shut down and is up for sale.   Good timing that Chair went elsewhere.

    I also see that YT is going to start coaching.   He has the pedigree, going from a 54 minute 10k to a 2:28 marathon.

    Quite warm out today, gym was lovely and cool.   Did mostly lower body, think I will have very sore glutes tomorrow.
  • RcoutureRcouture ✭✭✭
    edited June 2021
    Big G - Nice 13 miles. Seeing your routes on Strava always make me envious as I know how nice that coast is!

    Shades - Yes that’s exactly what I was thinking to get from the book which is ideas for speedwork and more importantly, the thinking behind them. I know what tempo/lactate threshold runs are about, but less so all these funky interval sessions. 

    I’ve signed up for the same 5k I did last week on the 8th of august where I am determined to break 20mins. 

    9 miles this evening along the Thames including 25min tempo. Perfect conditions. 
    Rcouture - that's good news on the next 5k race.   Should help that you know the course so no surprises.

    7 miles today, should be flat route but with seagull diversion have to run a few hills.   Another lovely morning for running.   

    Talking of seagulls I noticed yesterday that the pair of seagulls that have been nesting in our road for years have this year finally produced a chick.   I did wonder why on Sunday when we had the really bad weather why the seagulls were still there, usually in bad weather they head off somewhere else for shelter.   The chick is quite big and is on the chimney stack of a neighbour's house.   Fortunately the parent gulls are not aggressive at all, just very noisy.
  • Big_GBig_G ✭✭✭
    Rcouture, I’m lucky here with a lot of my regular routes as there are stunning views on most of them.  I do try and not take them for granted; often I do stop for a few seconds just to take it in.  Although it's on my doorstep, I've got pics of views that could be in any brochure promoting a summer holiday destination abroad.  I do sometimes curse my good fortune though, when there's a gale force wind and horizontal rain almost knocking me off my feet on the seafront in the winter ;) 

    Dreadful night's sleep last night as my hay fever is really playing up, and it was very humid too :(  Eurgh!  Rest day from running I think but I may get on the bike a bit later to turn the legs over, or I may not bother.
  • Cal JonesCal Jones ✭✭✭
    Rcouture - I've signed up for the 10K so hopefully we'll get to meet each other. Runthrough had a 50% off deal so it only cost £12.50. I'm nowhere near my best but as I've got the Big Half two weeks later, I thought it'd be a good opportunity to practise my HM pace.

    I had a bad night's sleep too, Big G - it was only 20 degrees in my room but I was roasting. I guess I can thank menopause for that. I woke up 4 times and eventually got out of bed before 5. I was out for my run before 6.

    I did a fairly easy-paced 8 miler today. I decided to head over past Tooting Bec to some small green spaces I'd visited on walks but hadn't managed to run, and pottered through those. I saw a coal tit, a disinterested fox (he/she ambled out of my way and didn't seem at all bothered) and then finished at the big pond (they call it a lake, but it's a big pond really) on Tooting Bec where I spent a few minutes looking at the various waterfowl and their youngsters.

    Big G - sorry about the hay fever, I believe pollen is very high right now.

    Cal - 20 degrees is hot enough for sleeping without the menopause making it worse.
    Not so hot down here, I think it was 15 degrees last night, felt very humid before I went to bed but I slept OK (for me).

    Been to the gym, wasn't quite as cool as air conditioning was being serviced.
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